Blues pickup for Dot

[Coach]

Hi all,

 

New guy here. My darling wife just surprised me with a pair of early Christmas presents. A black Epi Dot and a red Riviera P93, we have a family friend who deals in used guitars and put the package together for her. I stumbled on them while getting decorations out so surprise, after checking them out she will not let me play with them and actually made me wrap them up, but that works, lol.

 

Both guitars have had their share of battle scars and the Riv has a repaired neck, but she knew I was looking at both models and if I had to guess she got both for less then I would have paid for one!!!! They seem to play well although I will have to set both up as neither is just right for me at the moment. They are both Chinese made and if I read the serial numbers correctly the Dot is a 2009, the Riv a 2011.

 

Anyhow, the Riv's sound is perfect as it is, I like the tones I got just screwing around with a clean sim nice jazzy tones and some basic rockabilly mojo. The Dot is to be my blues box and here lies my question.

 

I have other guitars that cover most styles that I play but not a dedicated pure Chicago style blues machine. Thinking BB King tones here. The pots are pretty scratchy and the jack is cross threaded so if I am going to rip out the guts and rewire I would like to put in pickups that will help me get the sound I want. The problem is I have no idea of what I should be looking for, I want that smooth woody tone as well as the ability to make her moan when the time is right.

 

What are the recommendations?

 

Pictures to follow after Christmas.

 

-Harry

[Jon S.]

Welcome to the forums!! I would recommend the '57 Classic humbuckers. IMO, they are great for any style, but excel at classic rock and blues tones.

[Gunner]

+1. I put them in my 355 and they sound fantastic. Really improved the tone, especially through a good tube amp.

[wiggy]

Gibby 57 Classic at the bridge and H/B sized P90 at the neck

[Parabar]

Since the Riviera already has the P-90 neck tone covered, I'd recommend full-on humbuckers for both positions on the Dot. '57 Classic at the neck and Classic Plus at the bridge is a great combo, or you could go with Burstbuckers if you want a bit more drive. Depending on your budget and sonic preferences, there are also lots of good options from GFS, Seymour Duncan, Lollar, Lindy Fralin and others.

[Coach]

Thanks all, based on your input I've done a bit of reading. Sounds like to get the tone I want the objective is to get a low output pup and the Gibson 57 would be the right starting place. I do have a '76 LP Custom which gives me the harder edge sound as well as an Aria LP clone with Duncans on it that shreds ( it actually belongs to my youngest daughter who shreds much better then I ever will ).

 

I do appreciate the feedback and will keep everyone up to date as things progress.

 

This forum should be a great hangout for me. I am surprised by how much information Gibson has on this site, great place.

 

-Harry

[milod]

Seeing the header on the thread, my natural response is my personal response to a lotta stuff: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

But... yeah, if that Dot ain't broke, it's at least worn a bit.

 

OTOH... yeah, Gibbie pups or one of those recommended above...

 

BUT CONSIDER:

 

If you enjoy messing with stuff, consider this: Do "your" setup and strings; KEEP the pups but replace the wiring stuff with a Gibbie-type set and see how that works first. Then you have a better idea of what direction to go without replacing everything at virtually the price your lady paid in the first place... If it doesn't trip your trigger, then look further.

 

Also, for what it's worth, it's my observation that especially with the Dot, the "BB" sound and many others depend on settings, settings, settings, both on the Guit and on the amp. IMHO it's incredibly versatile, but too often "we" blame the guitar and/or pups for what ain't their fault.

 

My unfortunate personal example? Played a Dot in a store. Almost went for it even though I couldn't afford it then. Incredible heavy dry wood BB sound through an amp very similar to mine. Cupla years later I did bring home a Dot that my hands love and sounds fine. But I ain't found that one, dry wood blues lead sound on it yet, although I know it's there, somewhere...

 

m

[wardog]

Since the Riviera already has the P-90 neck tone covered, I'd recommend full-on humbuckers for both positions on the Dot. '57 Classic at the neck and Classic Plus at the bridge is a great combo, or you could go with Burstbuckers if you want a bit more drive. Depending on your budget and sonic preferences, there are also lots of good options from GFS, Seymour Duncan, Lollar, Lindy Fralin and others.

 

I put this exact combo in my 339 ultra and I am very pleased at the blues tones I get out of her. I also upgraded the nut to a bone nut.

[Septic]

While the obvious alternatives have already been mentioned, you might want to look at "Bare Knuckle PG Blues" as they're about as good a match fot the classic, original,'57s as you'll get... Plus (And it's a big one) They come unpotted, so you get the whole Peter Green style wall of harmonics and microphony induced sustain as well...

[1998StandardSG]

I am looking to try a set of Parson Street PAD pickups. Alnico 5 in the neck and alnico 2 in the bridge. They are about $120 for the set. Worth a look.

[wardog]

I am looking to try a set of Parson Street PAD pickups. Alnico 5 in the neck and alnico 2 in the bridge. They are about $120 for the set. Worth a look.

 

 

I tried the parson pups in a prs se and their great, but i wanted more agressive output so I saved up and installed gibby burstbuckers. IT my be a great choice for the DOT.

[1998StandardSG]

I tried the parson pups in a prs se and their great, but i wanted more agressive output so I saved up and installed gibby burstbuckers. IT my be a great choice for the DOT.

 

Thanks for your input, now I just need to order the bone nut

[Greybeard]

Thanks for your input, now I just need to order the bone nut

 

 

Don't forget us after you get it set up with the new mods. I put the Gibson Classic 57's in my ES-345 but didn't change the nut yet. I love the way it sounds but I am curious about the nut change. Perhaps you could tell us about a Before and After opinion of the sound after each part of your mods. I'm especially interested in an opinion on what the change of the nut contributes to your guitar.

[Coach]

Hi all,

 

Well Milod was right on track. I put a fresh set of Gibson Humbucker strings on the Dot and went over to a buddy's house so I could play thru his old Fender Twin Reverb and that puppy nailed the tone I was going for. ( Then I went on line and looked at the price tag for one and gagged a little ) Since then I have been working with my amp sim and am getting close.

 

When I changed strings I pulled the pups to see what was in there and they are the Epiphone 57s which really aren't too shabby. I think the next step is to replace the pots and jack and then see what I have after that. ( The look on my buddies face when the tone knob starting crackling was enough for me to call it quits before I blew something out! )

 

So which pots Alphs, CTS, or Gibson? Right now I seem to be getting the most useful tones between 2 and 6 on the pots that are in there. Long term I will not be looking to split the coils or anything fancy, however I would like to add better caps while I am in there and would take suggestions there as well. Are the orange drops still the way to go or is there better?

 

Thanks,

Harry

[Greybeard]

Hi all,

 

Well Milod was right on track. I put a fresh set of Gibson Humbucker strings on the Dot and went over to a buddy's house so I could play thru his old Fender Twin Reverb and that puppy nailed the tone I was going for. ( Then I went on line and looked at the price tag for one and gagged a little ) Since then I have been working with my amp sim and am getting close.

 

When I changed strings I pulled the pups to see what was in there and they are the Epiphone 57s which really aren't too shabby. I think the next step is to replace the pots and jack and then see what I have after that. ( The look on my buddies face when the tone knob starting crackling was enough for me to call it quits before I blew something out! )

 

So which pots Alphs, CTS, or Gibson? Right now I seem to be getting the most useful tones between 2 and 6 on the pots that are in there. Long term I will not be looking to split the coils or anything fancy, however I would like to add better caps while I am in there and would take suggestions there as well. Are the orange drops still the way to go or is there better?

 

Thanks,

Harry

 

 

I read a lot about various pots and caps before doing my upgrades and wound up with the 500K CTS pots and Vintage Oil-Paper .022 MFD Tone Capacitors. Since I changed all of the electronics at once (pickups, pots, caps, jack)I can't say what contribution each component made. Overall I'm very pleased with the outcome. The guitar seems to be more powerful on all of the various combinations of switching between pickups without the dullness/muddiness it had before on some of the settings.

 

This is the first semi-hollow body guitar I did this type of upgrade on and it was not the easiest job to do. So, I'd recommend you go with the best quality parts you can to avoid having to go back in there again anytime in the near future.

 

I bought the parts from a place called GuitarElectronics.com.

[Coach]

Did I need the long shaft or short?

 

Thanks,

Harry

[Greybeard]

Did I need the long shaft or short?

 

Thanks,

Harry

 

If you go to GuitarElectronics.com here are the parts that fit the ES-345....

 

I used Gold hardware on my guitar so you want to check for the style you are ordering.

 

WP1-21 Pointer Washers for Volume & Tone Controls-Gold

NWPJ1-21 Dress Nuts & Washers For Pots & Jacks-Gold

TCVQ22 Vintage Oil-Paper .022 MFD Tone Capacitor

CPC500 CTS 500K Precision Tolerance Audio Taper Guitar Pot (Tone)

CPC500B CTS 500K Linear Taper Guitar Pot (Volume)

CKP4T-12 Gibson Style Reflector Cap Tone Knob with Fine Splines-Black

CKP4V-12 Gibson Style Reflector Cap Volume Knob with Fine Splines-Black

SWT32-21 Switchcraft 3-Way Long Toggle Switch-Gold

SWN1-21 Recessed Mounting Collar for Switchcraft Switches-Gold

SK3-19 USA Guitar Toggle Switch Tip Knob-Cream

[Bluemans335]

I am looking to try a set of Parson Street PAF pickups. Alnico 5 in the neck and alnico 2 in the bridge. They are about $120 for the set. Worth a look.

 

+1. I just got a set of Parsons and haven't put in a guitar yet. Specs look good on them.

 

I've got a number of PAF's, and like the tones of Burstbuckers (not Burstbucker Pros) much better than '57 Classics. For Duncans, their Seth model is as good as a PAF gets (Seth Lover taught Seymour Duncan everything he did in making the original humbuckers in the 1950's). I'm a blues player and put a pair of Seth's in an Epi Dot, and highly recommend it. That gets you darn close to a 1958 335.

[Coach]

Thanks for the reply. According to FedEx I should be receiving a Fender Super Champ X2 combo in the mail today. I played thru a buddies Mustang III a week ago and while not quite the same as my other pal's Twin Reverb it did have a great vibe to it. I then went to GC and played thru a SC X2 head and liked the addition of the output tube stage combined with the modeling preamp, ( however with the Dot I really liked the pure tube Blackface tone on it's channel 1 best of all. )

 

I think this amp combined with the Dot will get me where I want to go with that guitar, plus as an added plus, with the Strat I tried at GC I swear I was channeling "Wish You Were Here" era Gilmore ! ! !

 

More to come,

-Harry

[mcgruff]

For Duncans, their Seth model is as good as a PAF gets (Seth Lover taught Seymour Duncan everything he did in making the original humbuckers in the 1950's). I'm a blues player and put a pair of Seth's in an Epi Dot, and highly recommend it.

 

Do you know any technical details about the Seth Lover? I'm going to have a go at winding some new pickups for my own dot sometime soon and vintage PAF is the target I'll be trying to hit. I know the Seths are unpotted, I think they're scatterwound, but I'm not sure what guage wire they use or how many turns on each coil. Asymmetric coils are (I think) one of the features which contributes to the vintage PAF sound.

[Bluemans335]

Do you know any technical details about the Seth Lover? I'm going to have a go at winding some new pickups for my own dot sometime soon and vintage PAF is the target I'll be trying to hit. I know the Seths are unpotted, I think they're scatterwound, but I'm not sure what guage wire they use or how many turns on each coil. Asymmetric coils are (I think) one of the features which contributes to the vintage PAF sound.

 

Check the Duncan site. I know Seth's are unpotted with unbalanced coils; a couple of the things that made the original PAF's so good. They also have A2 magnets, and I think 42 gauge enamel wire. All of this gives them rich, open, airy tones. The tolerences on them are tight, so there's no loose parts to feedback, unless you're really loud and standing in front of your amp. Seth's are as good as it gets.