20_Gauge Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I want to try a deffirent strap positin on my Dot. I've seen a few Country artists usin a shoestring to attach the strap to the headstock. I already have a shoestring(came w/ one of my straps)but how do I tie it? 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Personally I'd never do that to a guitar. I'd be worried about the stress on the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 It would be tied in back of the nut and under the strings. Still, I've got to go with Mcgruff on this. I string tie on acoustics but I would not on anything any heavier. It might not cause any problems. I just wouldn't take the chance. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20_Gauge Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm w/ ya guys, been hesitant to ever tryin' this for the reason mcgruff mentioned. Just curious. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Personally I'd never do that to a guitar. I'd be worried about the stress on the neck. I recently read somewhere that this is about the absolute worst way to attach a strap to a guitar due to the stress on the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm not sayin' it's "good," but it's mostly how acoustics were played for generations until the electric guitar came along and then acoustic pickers started copying the deal with strap pins on the body. It gives a different feel... more horizontal movement is possible, but come to think of it, I don't recall ever putting that much pressure on the neck with the "carry/playing" positions mostly used then and by more than a few folks nowadays with acoustics. I don't see that much problem with it if it's done with care... OTOH, <grin> I've added strap pins to a neck/neck heel on all my AEs if they didn't come so equipped. Actually too, if you consider the geometry of a relatively high guitar position and with the body of the guitar set so the strap is almost vertical from the player's shoulder, the pressure on the neck position is pretty minor. And... a lotta folks who play various styles on classical guitar use what looks like a saxophone-type neck strap that has a string going under the guitar body, then up the front to attach at the sound hole. I used one of those a cupla years myself, but always was awfully, awfully careful because I was in fear of tearing the heck outa the wood. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'd be worried about the knot I used. There's a reason that I wear slip-ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'd be worried about the knot I used. There's a reason that I wear slip-ons. Sorry, DP.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Better idea Martin strap button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis G Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Better idea Martin strap button Still puts stress on the neck. And while I agree with milod that this was how about every folkie in the '50's - '70's had their guitar strapped, still didn't make it right. These days, I'm thinking this is the way to go: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20_Gauge Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Still puts stress on the neck. And while I agree with milod that this was how about every folkie in the '50's - '70's had their guitar strapped, still didn't make it right. These days, I'm thinking this is the way to go: Yeah I agree, Dennis. That's one of the main features I look for in a guitar, 2 strap buttons. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 That's one of the main features I look for in a guitar, 2 strap buttons. That made me laugh :) When you think about it, it's kinda crazy that they don't fit something as standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Just get this. Its less than $10 and works A LOT better and A LOT safer than tying shoestring knots. http://www.planetwaves.com/pwProductDetail.Page?ActiveID=4115&productid=190&productname=Acoustic_Quick_Release_System I want to try a deffirent strap positin on my Dot. I've seen a few Country artists usin a shoestring to attach the strap to the headstock. I already have a shoestring(came w/ one of my straps)but how do I tie it? 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20_Gauge Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Just get this. Its less than $10 and works A LOT better and A LOT safer than tying shoestring knots. http://www.planetwaves.com/pwProductDetail.Page?ActiveID=4115&productid=190&productname=Acoustic_Quick_Release_System Yeah, I have looked @ them Jason. Was wonderin' how good they were. Might go ahead & pick one up. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yeah, I've used both Martin and Planet Waves versions - then added a strap button to the neck at roughly the same place as Dennis' 12-string example on a big box. I'm not sure that it was a problem "in the olden days," in terms of damaging guitars on grounds that I think folks brought up with such acoustics and straps adjusted and tended not really to put so much stress on the neck side compared to the stresses I see a lot of players put on their straps/buttons/locks the past 20-30 years. That's no problem for a solid/semi, but I think it can get a bit rough on a flattop or archtop so... I don't see such pickers putting as much stress on the strap as others. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonG Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 They are pretty solid. The clips are pretty sturdy and you dont have to make any knots that can potentially come untied and nothing will slip off either. Yeah, I have looked @ them Jason. Was wonderin' how good they were. Might go ahead & pick one up. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20_Gauge Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Cool. I'm gonna add one of them to my next Sweetwater order, I'll prob'ly be placin' it next week. 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The idea that it puts unnecessary strain on the neck is a myth. The string tension is much much greater than the weight of the guitar. I have been doing this my whole life and never had any problems. My guitars rarely need set up and play just fine... I do it like this: - Get a bit of string/shoelace about 8-12 inches. - Fold it in half. - Thread the "ends" through together so it's doubled going under the strings. - Bring them back under the guitar and through the bend so rather than tied on it's more like a sling. - Then double knot the two ends to your strap... I have 3 acoustics ranging from £400-2000+ and have them strapped up "beatle style". There are thousands of other Beatles tribute guys who do this and gig these guitars 2-4 times a week and I have never ever ever ever ever heard of anyone having structural damage to their guitar's neck from this method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 A guitar neck, neck joint, etc is carefully designed to withstand the pull of strings. That's a force of well over 100lb (if I remember correctly) in a specific direction. The neck is not designed to be pulled sideways so do that at your own risk. Some people seem to get away with it. However, there is also a problem with tuning. I just did an experiment with my dot. If I sit the guitar up vertically (as you would normally play it) and pick it up holding the bottom strap button and a finger under the neck at the nut, it goes out by about 12 cents. That's for a stationary guitar: if you're moving around the tuning will be all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clarkuss Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 A guitar neck, neck joint, etc is carefully designed to withstand the pull of strings. That's a force of well over 100lb (if I remember correctly) in a specific direction. The neck is not designed to be pulled sideways so do that at your own risk. Some people seem to get away with it. However, there is also a problem with tuning. I just did an experiment with my dot. If I sit the guitar up vertically (as you would normally play it) and pick it up holding the bottom strap button and a finger under the neck at the nut, it goes out by about 12 cents. That's for a stationary guitar: if you're moving around the tuning will be all over the place. A neck that is designed to hold the tension of those strings, when the join is on the opposite side will happily withstand the wait of the guitar as it sits on a player. I don't know the physics but I play 100+ gigs a year and do not notice any noticeable difference in tuning issues with guitars strapped at the neck to those strapped on the horn or back. I normally use 4 guitars a night, 2 strapped in each way. You also don't hear any stories from studios or musicians about this being a problem. You think it would have been phased out with the likes of Elvis, Lennon, Cash and co. all doing this for long spells of their careers. The only place you hear people warning against it is on guitar forums from people who don't strap their guitars in this fashion. There is no tension as you are not pulling it sideways or any ways.. It sits pretty easily without tension. I don't know what you're doing with your dot but it sounds like your putting unnatural force that wouldn't be there from this strapping method. If anyone can show me evidence of structural damage due to a strap placed above the nut I will eat my words but it just doesn't happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Jr III Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The idea that it puts unnecessary strain on the neck is a myth. The string tension is much much greater than the weight of the guitar. I have been doing this my whole life and never had any problems. My guitars rarely need set up and play just fine... I do it like this: - Get a bit of string/shoelace about 8-12 inches. - Fold it in half. - Thread the "ends" through together so it's doubled going under the strings. - Bring them back under the guitar and through the bend so rather than tied on it's more like a sling. - Then double knot the two ends to your strap... I have 3 acoustics ranging from £400-2000+ and have them strapped up "beatle style". There are thousands of other Beatles tribute guys who do this and gig these guitars 2-4 times a week and I have never ever ever ever ever heard of anyone having structural damage to their guitar's neck from this method. I've got one acoustic that has been "shoestrung" with the same strap for about 20 years. It's always been a reliable guitar. Stays in tune through a pounding. I hate to change something that works but I like your tie off directions and will use them if the need ever arises. I don't think most players put a lot of weight on the neck when playing, at least they shouldn't. Only if you rest on the guitar between songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 There is no tension as you are not pulling it sideways or any ways.. Try it for yourself. My own dot went flat by at least 12 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Jr III Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Try it for yourself. My own dot went flat by at least 12 cents. So maybe this isn't a good idea on a Dot. It seems to work fine on full acoustics as evidenced by many years of use. Still, if a guitar has a strap button I'd use it and not monkey around with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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