Perennial Sheraton PUP Upgrade Question

[Dentiloquy]

Hey all.

 

So I actually signed up for an account on this forum about 10 minutes ago just so I could ask you guys this question. I went through a few pages of threads & couldn't find a recent one to comment on, but I've seen a lot of older ones from a few years ago.

 

I'm about to come into a little pile of money & have been thinking about either a new guitar or upgrading a current guitar. I have a 2006 Korean Sheraton 2 that I love & a 2005 SG faded that I like a lot. The main thing is the size & feel of the epi is just much more preferable to me. I like bigger guitars that feel sort of tougher or something. Also, I play lefty & the sheraton is actually left handed. The SG is a nicely switched righty, but still kind of feels like someone else's guitar, if that makes sense. Anyway, the point is that the Sheraton is MY guitar, so I think I want to put a little money in it. Treat it nice, you know?

 

What I was thinking is replacing the PUPs on the Sheraton . I play a lot of high gain doom & thrash metal but also want it to be good for cleaner tones or even slightly dirty bluesy stuff.

 

I'd like to mention now that I'm VERY new to all this & completely ignorant about how it all works. I happen to have a little money right now so I think I want to make my guitar sound better. To anyone who might respond to this topic with irreverence & condescension, just please move along to the next thread. I'm sure everyone over there will think you're really smart & cool.

 

Now... All that being said, what do you guys think about putting in some classic 57s? What about burstbuckers? I'm not looking for anyone else's tone, just trying to get the most out of my guitar. Like I said, I play mostly heavy stuff but need it to be versatile.

 

My current understanding is simple: putting classic 57s in the epi would be an unequivocal improvement, no matter what style I'm playing.

 

Thanks for your time & I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.

[bigneil]

A couple of things to consider. If you do upgrade the pickups, it would also be worth upgrading the rest of the electronics in there too so that you can get the best out of them. But it is a real PIA to do this with a semi hollow body guitar.

 

Now, on pickup choice, choosing pickups is extremely subjective at the best of times.

 

So my first question to you is, what amplification are you using, and what don't you like about your current pickups.?

 

Answer these and we might be able to start making suggestions.

[Bluemans335]

I have a bunch of Epi's and have upgraded PU's in all of them, except for a couple of the new ones which come with excellent stock PU's these days. I also have a Sheraton and a couple Dots. PU's are a large part of a guitar's tone, and the biggest thing you can do to change or improve a guitar's sound is to change PU's. Does more than everything else put together.

 

Normally, I'd recommend a set of good PAF's for a 335 (I'm a blues/classic rock player myself), but you're playing metal and they get muddy too fast with lots of distortion. For that reason, Gibson '57's and Burstbuckers are not what you want. Guaranteed mud.

 

You need clarity in your PU's, which will cut thru distortion. For that, I'd recommend a Gibson 500T/496R set, which is their high-output PU's with ceramic magnets (made for metal!), or a Dirty Fingers bridge and a 496R neck. Gibson uses the 500T/496R set in their Flying V's, Explorers, and Les Paul Classics, and you might be able to get a deal on used ones on eBay (which is where I get almost all of my PU's, and usually used ones).

 

Seymour Duncan has the Custom (SH-5) which is a high-output ceramic magnet bridge PU, excellent for metal. It goes well with a '59 (SH-1) in the neck slot.

 

Check out DiMarzio's website, they have a lot of choices for metal players, but I'm not as familiar with them. A good place to ask for PU advice is the Seymour Duncan forum, where ALL kinds and brands of PU's are discussed at length. Lots of metal players, and Epi owners, there to help you.

[charlie brown]

My vote, would be for "Classic 57's! They are awesome, in Semi-hollow bodied guitars...IMHO.

"Massive distortion," is NOT something I want, in or from, a Semi-hollow body. You lose all the

tone subtleties, and warmth, that semi's are famous for. Never mind the feedback. But, to each

his/her own.

 

CB

[Bluemans335]

My vote, would be for "Classic 57's! They are awesome, in Semi-hollow bodied guitars...IMHO.

"Massive distortion," is NOT something I want, in or from, a Semi-hollow body. You lose all the

tone subtleties, and warmth, that semi's are famous for. Never mind the feedback. But, to each

his/her own.

 

CB

 

Yeah, but he wants a lot of distortion at times, and that's where '57's would be a mess. They were never intended for that.

[mcgruff]

Can you use low output pickup for high gain metal with something like a Seymour Duncan clean boost pedal and a high pass to filter out some of the mud, or is there more to it than that?

[charlie brown]

Yeah, but he wants a lot of distortion at times, and that's where '57's would be a mess. They were never intended for that.

 

Yeah, and Semi's were never intended for "Thrash Metal," either! LOL

It just seems to me, he's working cross purposes, trying to use a Semi

for heavy distortion type music. A Semi, for Blues, would be ok...great, even.

 

If Metal, or even chunky hard rock is his intent, he'd be much better off,

with a solid body...SG, Flying V, Explorer, etc. Just changing pickups,

even to ceramics, "ain't gonna cut it!" But, I suppose he'll have to

learn that, the hard (and, more expensive) way? Well..."Whatever!"

It's his dime.

 

 

CB

[Bluemans335]

Give me a effin break.

 

You could probably tone that down a bit Joe, out of respect for other people's opinins. Not everybody's going to agree.

[RobinTheHood]

Ah, more you-need-a-specific-type-of-guitar-for-a-specific-type-of-music crapola. It's a darn shame that some of those famous pros never got the news, then they woulda been sooooo much better. Page should never have used a Telecaster, Hendrix should never have used a Stratocaster.......

 

Give me a effin break.

Posts like this are the exact reason you keep getting banned from this forum. After about 150 posts your attitude takes a striking turn for the worse and its all downhill after that. Every time. You obviously have a desire to participate on these boards and I'm fine with that. But you seriously need to chill out. Comprende, amigo?

[bluelake07]

Ah, more you-need-a-specific-type-of-guitar-for-a-specific-type-of-music crapola. It's a darn shame that some of those famous pros never got the news, then they woulda been sooooo much better. Page should never have used a Telecaster, Hendrix should never have used a Stratocaster.......

 

Give me a effin break.

Clapton should never have used a Byrdland for this song...

 

 

his opinion

[charlie brown]

I only meant, that Semi's weren't designed for "Metal," or even Hard Rock...but, you

(of course) can use them, or anything else, for whatever you want. They're just not optimal,

for that application, that's all...IMHO! Clapton, used a 335, out of a cranked Marshall Stack,

quite often. He had some "feedback" issues, with it, as well. But, it didn't stop him.

The question was for "suggestions," and that's all I did...including the reasoning,

behind MY "opinion." That's all ANY of my posts, like this, are! Just MY opinion.

 

Sheesh...Ligthen up!

 

CB

[Bluemans335]

Clapton should never have used a Byrdland for this song...

 

 

Right, he said so later: that he was young and it was dumb idea. But, live and learn.

[Bluemans335]

It's an opinion, like any other opinion, however stated. Unfortunately, I flunked Political Correctness 101, so I can't communicate well with the insecure, oversensitive crowd, and their manufactured outrage.

 

For the O/P: consider your ENTIRE rig, not just the pickups. Amps, effects, settings all need to be considered.

 

It's not political correctness, that's a cop out, it's common courtesy. You don't want other people treating you like that. Regardless of the topic, we're all entitled to believe what we want, and people should be mature enough to accept that.

[Dentiloquy]

hey thanks for all the responses, guys. i appreciate all your input. i'm going to respond to all of it.

 

- i know about replacing the wiring as well & that's going to happen if i have enough money left over. i also have the opportunity to buy an old ampeg gemini off a family friend for pretty cheap, so it's going to come down to funds & priorities. i know the wiring is a good idea, but if i can only afford the pick ups & the amp, i gotta get that amp before someone else does. the wiring i can pick up later.

 

- right now i play through a fender hot rod deluxe, but like i said, i might be getting the gemini. i don't play huge shows, obviously. the hot rod is a really nice sized amp for what i do. it also stays clean for a while so i get my tone from pedals. i'm working with a tubescreamer (one of the newer ones with the 3 way selector switch), an ehx metal muff, & a big muff clone that includes a mid sweep & switches for selecting different overdrive capacitors. i go back & forth between those but lately i've been getting a pretty good tone out of the metal muff by cranking the distortion, treble, & bass & putting the mids at about 4. then i engage the top boost switch on that pedal & turn that knob to about 4 as well. i put the pick up switch all the way up (to the neck pick up, right?) & put the tone at about 6 or 7. it's got a nice kind of warm fuzzy distortion to it, which is kind of what i'm looking for.

 

- my problems with my current pick ups: lack of sustain on lead parts, not too much versatility in tone (the overall tonal range, i think is what i mean), occasional feedback. now i know, i know: a lot of this is the guitar, but there has to be a way to get more sustain with better pick-ups, right? to the guys who suggest solid bodies, i hear you, but i'm not after a real classic or thrash metal sound. it's more doom/stoner metal, which is more of a fuzzier kind of thing, almost like really heavy classic rock. i'm not thrash, at all. i mean i'm into thrash, but it's not what i write. part of what i like is the idea of doing this style of music with an unconventional instrument. i'll leave the les pauls & flying vs to everyone else. and not for nothing, but here is a great example of ungodly heavy tone coming from a hollowbody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0lKL5KNlZM. hes playing an es 335, which is part of the reason i suggested classic 57s. he's also playing insanely awesome expensive orange amps, i know, but still: that's a hollowbody & it sounds heavy as hell.

 

- my only hesitation about the Gibson 500T/496R set is that they are such a classic kind of metal sounding set of pick ups. but maybe coming from a hollowbody (as opposed to a flying v or whatever) they'll sound unique. also, with pick ups like that, i worry about not having the versatility for different styles, since they are sort of specifically metal style pickups.

 

- maybe what i'm trying to do is at cross purposes, but like i said, i'm not exactly looking to replicate any certain sound, so the idea of what is "optimal" isn't really on my radar because there's not really anything i'm trying to copy or emulate. i'm more interested in having a sound that is unique within a certain style. part of the reason my sg isn't all that interesting to me is that, as some of you said, it's a great guitar for what everyone has in their mind as a "metal" kind of sound. but it just doesn't sound new or different to me & as such is kind of boring. my main concern is more with sustain issues & what kind of pick ups can get me more versatility.

 

i think i addressed everything you guys brought up, right?

 

thanks again so much for all of the input. i look forward to more of your collective wisdom & light bickering amongst each other.

[charlie brown]

hey thanks for all the responses, guys. i appreciate all your input. i'm going to respond to all of it.

 

- i know about replacing the wiring as well & that's going to happen if i have enough money left over. i also have the opportunity to buy an old ampeg gemini off a family friend for pretty cheap, so it's going to come down to funds & priorities. i know the wiring is a good idea, but if i can only afford the pick ups & the amp, i gotta get that amp before someone else does. the wiring i can pick up later.

 

- right now i play through a fender hot rod deluxe, but like i said, i might be getting the gemini. i don't play huge shows, obviously. the hot rod is a really nice sized amp for what i do. it also stays clean for a while so i get my tone from pedals. i'm working with a tubescreamer (one of the newer ones with the 3 way selector switch), an ehx metal muff, & a big muff clone that includes a mid sweep & switches for selecting different overdrive capacitors. i go back & forth between those but lately i've been getting a pretty good tone out of the metal muff by cranking the distortion, treble, & bass & putting the mids at about 4. then i engage the top boost switch on that pedal & turn that knob to about 4 as well. i put the pick up switch all the way up (to the neck pick up, right?) & put the tone at about 6 or 7. it's got a nice kind of warm fuzzy distortion to it, which is kind of what i'm looking for.

 

- my problems with my current pick ups: lack of sustain on lead parts, not too much versatility in tone (the overall tonal range, i think is what i mean), occasional feedback. now i know, i know: a lot of this is the guitar, but there has to be a way to get more sustain with better pick-ups, right? to the guys who suggest solid bodies, i hear you, but i'm not after a real classic or thrash metal sound. it's more doom/stoner metal, which is more of a fuzzier kind of thing, almost like really heavy classic rock. i'm not thrash, at all. i mean i'm into thrash, but it's not what i write. part of what i like is the idea of doing this style of music with an unconventional instrument. i'll leave the les pauls & flying vs to everyone else. and not for nothing, but here is a great example of ungodly heavy tone coming from a hollowbody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0lKL5KNlZM. hes playing an es 335, which is part of the reason i suggested classic 57s. he's also playing insanely awesome expensive orange amps, i know, but still: that's a hollowbody & it sounds heavy as hell.

- my only hesitation about the Gibson 500T/496R set is that they are such a classic kind of metal sounding set of pick ups. but maybe coming from a hollowbody (as opposed to a flying v or whatever) they'll sound unique. also, with pick ups like that, i worry about not having the versatility for different styles, since they are sort of specifically metal style pickups.

 

- maybe what i'm trying to do is at cross purposes, but like i said, i'm not exactly looking to replicate any certain sound, so the idea of what is "optimal" isn't really on my radar because there's not really anything i'm trying to copy or emulate. i'm more interested in having a sound that is unique within a certain style. part of the reason my sg isn't all that interesting to me is that, as some of you said, it's a great guitar for what everyone has in their mind as a "metal" kind of sound. but it just doesn't sound new or different to me & as such is kind of boring. my main concern is more with sustain issues & what kind of pick ups can get me more versatility.

 

i think i addressed everything you guys brought up, right?

 

thanks again so much for all of the input. i look forward to more of your collective wisdom & light bickering amongst each other.

 

Have you tried the Orange Amps?? They ARE "Ungodly" heavy sounding, themselves. I've demo'd them, myself, as my guitar dealer is also an "Orange" dealer, as well. It literally didn't matter what guitar I plugged in, I could get "ungodly" heavy and sustained tone, from just the amp. Each guitar would retain it's own personality, of course, but the heavy and sustained tone, was there, with ALL of them.

I tried Strats, Telecasters, SG's, Les Pauls, ES-345, and even a Melody Maker! They all sounded Great,

in those amps! From a Tiny Terror, Black Terror, and Dual Terror, clear up to a 100 watt 1/2 stack.

So, what you may really need, is not new pickups, but a different amp?!

 

I own a Hot Rod Deluxe, myself, and I love what it does, as well...exactly FOR what it does. But, it's

no Marshall, or Orange amp, even with "pedals!" Check the Orange amps out, if you haven't done

so, already. Or, any other "high gain," amp, designed for those purposes. Good Luck, whatever

you do, or decide!

 

Cheers,

CB

[RobinTheHood]

It's an opinion, like any other opinion, however stated. Unfortunately, I flunked Political Correctness 101, so I can't communicate well with the insecure, oversensitive crowd, and their manufactured outrage.

 

 

 

LOL! Still trying to sell that same 'ol tired out line, eh? You and I both know that the only one manufacturing any outrage around here is you. You can call people insecure and sensitive all you like, but the bottom line is that no one on this forum is going to tolerate the way you treat people. Now would be a good time to stop.

[bigneil]

I am in agreement with Charlie Brown. You might be better served by spending your money on some different amplification, a heavy sounding tube amp such as orange or some laney models would help not just with your tone but also with your sustain. When you push the amp hard it causes a mild compression which helps to sustain the note.

 

You can also get some different sounds from your currevnt pickups by lowering them down then raising the pole pieces.. It helps to gives a little more clarity to a muddy or lifeless pickup. You could also try removing the covers . I am not trying to dissuade you from purchasing new pickups, but trying these ideas might help you on your tone quest. also, there is no need to spend loads of money on big name brand pickups, there are loads of cheaper but great sounding pickups....like the ones from guitar fetish for example.

 

I think it's cool that you are trying to break convention and develop your OWN sound. Good luck!

[Bluemans335]

- maybe what i'm trying to do is at cross purposes, but like i said, i'm not exactly looking to replicate any certain sound, so the idea of what is "optimal" isn't really on my radar because there's not really anything i'm trying to copy or emulate. i'm more interested in having a sound that is unique within a certain style. part of the reason my sg isn't all that interesting to me is that, as some of you said, it's a great guitar for what everyone has in their mind as a "metal" kind of sound. but it just doesn't sound new or different to me & as such is kind of boring. my main concern is more with sustain issues & what kind of pick ups can get me more versatility.

 

thanks again so much for all of the input. i look forward to more of your collective wisdom & light bickering amongst each other.

 

Yeah, cross purposes pretty much describes it. A 335 can do a lot, but metal isn't what they do best. Why not designate the SG for metal and the Sheraton for non-metal? I always bring two guitars to a gig. BTW, I'm a blues-classic rock player and use my SG's for that, not metal.

 

And hey, no extra charge for the bickering. All included in the same low price.

[mcgruff]

Here's an interesting idea for more control of overdriven tones.

 

Also check out Jimmy Page wiring if you want your instrument to be as versatile as possible - you need pickups with 4-conductor wiring for that.

 

What pickups do you have in your Sheraton? My dot has two 57CH(G) which I don't rate very highly (not really a complaint: still think I got a lot of guitar for the money) but newer pickups are much better.

[Mr. Semi]

It's an opinion, like any other opinion, however stated. Unfortunately, I flunked Political Correctness 101, so I can't communicate well with the insecure, oversensitive crowd, and their manufactured outrage.

 

Dear Mr. Isuzu,

 

I watched this entire thread unfold quite peaceably, and then you stumbled in. You sport rather strong and uninvited opinions that as others have stated are not in the best interests of this, or any other post. In fact, comments like yours have the potential to drive newbies away from a fine forum like this. Why do you have to be so crass?

[Mr. Semi]

It's a gift

It's no wonder then why you get the boot.

[Jazzchief1]

A lot of wasted space there. I replaced my Sheraton II pickups with DiMarzio EJ's(Eric Johnsons) At first I wasn't sure because of their low output, but wow these things work for everthing. I think you would be happy. Try them out on something like a roland cube 80 or a good tube amp. Good luck.