Andy R Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Greetings Everyone. I posted this over in the Explorer section but thought I would post here as well since there seems to be more activity here. I hope this is not an issue. If so I will remove duplicate post and offer my apologies. So here is my question: I recently purchased my 2nd Explorer E2 (Sunburst Maple top) and am in the process of restoring it back to its original glory. My first order of business is replacing the original TP-6 and Tune-O-Matic bridge with original replacements since some TOOL painted the original gold TP-6 and Tune-O-Matic black! I have sourced a NOS TP-6 which looks great but I am having a hard time identifying the Tune-O-Matic that originally came on it. I thought it might be some replacement bridge but after scanning some more pics of 82 E2's I have seen a couple more just like it. The odd thing about this bridge is that the overall height adjusting pins don't go all the way through to the top of the bridge like most T.O.M's. It also has strange nylon bridge saddles that the adjusting screws come up the the bottom of the bridge for each saddle as opposed to the normal through the side saddle adjusting screw. I will attach a picture (I hope) of another E2 just like mine (sans the thick goo of black paint) with the same TOM bridge. There is no Identifying numbers that I can see and I've searched everywhere I can think. Looked at many, many pictures on google. I did find one on e-bay but it is chrome and the guy didn't know where it came from. So for all you Pros out there can you help me out identifying this thing? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laaz Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 E/2's came with a standard Nashville bridge. That is not the original bridge, doesn't even look like a Gibson bridge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigh Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 That's not a Gibson bridge, but there were some Gibson & Epi saddles that were nylon in the 60's. John Lennon's Casino has nylon saddles. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 That's not a Gibson bridge, but there were some Gibson & Epi saddles that were nylon in the 60's. John Lennon's Casino has nylon saddles. Craig Actually early Gibsons from 70 to 74 had nylon bridges too. ABR1 Harmonica And the weird bridge configuration on the SG100, 200's and 250's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 26, 2010 Author Share Posted November 26, 2010 I appreciate your responses and opinions. My thoughts on your comments: 1 "E/2's came with a standard Nashville bridge. That is not the original bridge, doesn't even look like a Gibson bridge at all." - I agree as the 1980 E2 Walnut/Maple I have has Nashville Style bridge. Also most all pictures of E2's up to 1982 I have found have the normal Nashville style TOM bridge. But I have found many pictures of E2's with this bridge on it. 2" "Its not original and not even Gibson" - I disagree with it's not original as I found at least 10 other E2 pictures with this exact bridge. Google "Gibson E2" and look at the pictures that pop up automatically there are at least 4 shown right there and if you go digging through (not that you would care to) Google photos, ebay, personal sites, and Guitar center you will find quite a few more. In fact I found one pic with 2 E2's side by side. One with the Nashville TOM and one just like I have shown. I believe there are too many pics to show that they came that way. Concerning that it "might not be a Gibson bridge" This could be true as I have never seen one like this before either and can't seem to find anything (Obviously) on the net about it. It also doesn't have any Gibson markings or numbers which would be strange for them since they brand pretty much everything down to screws. Since it seems that the ones I found seem to be on the 82-83 era Tobacco and Cherry Sunburst models maybe it was something they were prototyping, ran out of nashvilles and had to put something on there or just something weird they did??? I hope I'm not coming off like a turd because I do respect your thoughts but it would be interesting to find out what the hell this thing is??? Any other clue seekers out there? Pic of E2's side by side. The one on the right has Nashville bridge the one on the left has unknown bridge like mine check this site - http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/davd15/e2explorer.jpg Other photos as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chase1410 Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Pic of E2's side by side. The one on the right has Nashville bridge the one on the left has unknown bridge like mine check this site - http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/davd15/e2explorer.jpg Other photos as well Love the axe man....real sexy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted November 26, 2010 Share Posted November 26, 2010 Those are/were made by Schaller. Some gibbies did come with that stock in the 80s. Schaller still sells them, IMO they look a little fancier and modern than the normal Gibson bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I've seen some Artisan models come with that particular bridge, but wasn't sure if it was Gibson factory original. What is strange is the vertical adjustment to the saddles (OP's first image). All Schaller TOM bridges I have ever seen have the horizontal saddle adjustment, which is why I don't think this particular bridge is a Schaller.... I would say remove the bridge and look for the MADE IN GERMANY stamp on the underside. All early 80's bridges that came from Schaller have that stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 I hope I'm not coming off like a turd because I do respect your thoughts but it would be interesting to find out what the hell this thing is??? Any other clue seekers out there? Pic of E2's side by side. The one on the right has Nashville bridge the one on the left has unknown bridge like mine check this site - http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh57/davd15/e2explorer.jpg Other photos as well Again the TOM bridges on those Gibby's have the horizontal lead screw screw saddle adjustment, which is more consistent with the Schaller design. The bridge the ebayer is sporting is the vertical clamp load saddle retention design, which is completely different from any TOM bridge design I have ever seen from Schaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Again the TOM bridges on those Gibby's have the horizontal lead screw screw saddle adjustment, which is more consistent with the Schaller design. The bridge the ebayer is sporting is the vertical clamp load saddle retention design, which is completely different from any TOM bridge design I have ever seen from Schaller. Duane!! Exactly!!! By the way I love that Creme colored Les Paul! Is it a 74? I had a Burny replica of that guitar that was spot on when I used to work for Fernandes Guitars (They make Burny too) but I needed some cash and got rid of it. Got a 76 Wine colored deluxe now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Love the axe man....real sexy.. Chase, Well thanks but those aren't mine just some examples I found on the web. I will post some pics of my guitars here sometime soon. Peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Interesting.... I do like the 3 post setting.... it will certainly help with intonation ... I could be wrong, but if it dont have the stamped MADE IN GERMANY, it's not a Schaller... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Thanx!!! It's a 1980 LPC. I purchased it from GC of Hollywood in Feb of 1981 brand new. The early Burny LP's are great instruments..... Right now I'm on the hunt for a 70-72 Deluxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 hey rectora!!! I accidental killed part of your response when quoting your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Thanx!!! It's a 1980 LPC. I purchased it from GC of Hollywood in Feb of 1981 brand new. The early Burny LP's are great instruments..... Right now I'm on the hunt for a 70-72 Deluxe Here are a few of my "toys". The sunburst E2 is the project guitar right now. I got a nice NOS TP-6 bridge for it. Original 1980 Dirty Fingers for the bridge pup, and NOS case for it. gotta get anther black bezel, some gold screws, black speed knobs and some 82 pots for it and will probably end up putting on an 82 era gold nashville bridge on it .and should still be under $1400.00 for it all! \:D/ Bet you can't guess what my other two guitar passions are...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 You've got a great collection You'll fit in just fine around here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 You've got a great collection You'll fit in just fine around here Thanks man I appreciate that. I'm usually lurking around the Metro Amps forums because I'm an old Marshall Geek.The E2's are kind of a new thing to collect. I'm also looking for a 75 Ibanez destroyer. I lost a bid on one last week. Oh Well. I'm also starting to get interested in the Orville guitars from Japan. Any experience with those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Thanks man I appreciate that. I'm usually lurking around the Metro Amps forums because I'm an old Marshall Geek.The E2's are kind of a new thing to collect. I'm also looking for a 75 Ibanez destroyer. I lost a bid on one last week. Oh Well. I'm also starting to get interested in the Orville guitars from Japan. Any experience with those? Never owned a Orville. But from my experience with Gibson / Epi Japan instruments, the ones that came out of the Terada factory were kick *** instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 I looked and weeded through over 16,000 bridges and musical accessories on e-bay trying to find another bridge like this one and came up with a big 0! (Other than the old beat up one I had already found which the seller has no useful information about.... Sigh.... Maybe today I will solve this mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laaz Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Once again, that is not the original bridge for the E/2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Once again, that is not the original bridge for the E/2... In 1982 it might have been... Gibson was using the extended travel bridges during that time on different Gibson instruments besides the LPC... Don't know for sure if they're Schaller, but more than likely they were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 According to this article Gibson has put out five different TOM bridges. It talks about the 3 point / top adjust bridge you have and the Schaller long travel bridge. So the one you have may be a Schaller.... I would contact them. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laaz Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 Not. I have had 4 different E/2's all had the Nashville. I had the original sales brochure with one which had the specks as such. There were many swapping parts out at the time, as there are today. That is probably how that bridge ended up on the Explorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted November 27, 2010 Author Share Posted November 27, 2010 Once again, that is not the original bridge for the E/2... Laaz, No this is not the "original" bridge that originally was put on the E2's when they began production in 1979. I agree with you that the "Original" bridge was a Nashville style Tunamatic bridge as seen on every E2 that I have seen up until 1982. So here I completely agree with you. Now here is the part where you need to quit assuming that I am an idiot that doesn't know squat about guitars or how to research something before posting for help on a forum. I may be a new member here but I have been playing guitar for almost 30 years. I have also worked for 4 different guitar companies which includes ASI/Sustaniac, Fernandes, Dean, and Landola Acoustics, where I held various positions from Guitar technician, research and development, Quality control, product design, and Artisit relations. I even appeared in a couple of product ads in Guitar magazines for our products so I guess you could even called me a product "model" at the time as well . So please give me the benefit of the doubt that I might know a little something about the guitar world and wouldn't be pursuing something that isn't relevant. So if you're actually into possibly learning something from somebody other than yourself please open your mind, take a look at presented evidence and quit assuming you know everything there is to know about an Explorer E2 based on what you have seen, believe, or think you know. If you quit reading here then please do not comment on any of my post I may submit in the future as I don't enjoy calling out someone as an ignorant As$ even if they are being one. If you do decide to continue reading this then I hope you learn something, maybe provide helpful input and I can add another cool knowledgeable person to my list of people who's opinions I admire and respect. This is what I hope for. So continuing into what bridges were "original" on an E2 up until the 82-83 era again I have only seen the standard Nashville Style TOM bridge but starting sometime in 1982 random E2's started popping up with the bridge I have pictured not only the 82 I have but it can also be seen on various other E2's if you look at enough pictures. I have already provided a couple of the pictures I found and If I had enough upload space I could probably dig up about a hundred more. So this bridge wasn't just on 1 or 2 E2's and with the amount of pictures of E2's I have seen pictures of with this exact bridge I feel pretty safe that at least a limited number of E2's were produced and built from the factory with this style of bridge installed. Either as a test run for the new bridge style (more on this later) or possibly as some kind of upgrade that could have been ordered at the time. I fully admit that this is conjecture and speculation on my part which is why I am pursuing this further and taking the time to research and share my findings. Now some more information I found out about the mystery bridge for those of you who care to know. The bridge is actually a Gibson owned patent (under the name of Norlin Industries) and the patent invention was created by Rendal Wall who just happens to live near Kalamazoo Michigan. The patent number for the bridge is US Patent 4334454 Link to patent info page The patent was filed on 11/10/1980 and was published on 06/15/1982. Here is a link to the patent diagram information and drawing of the the bridge. PDF with Drawings So what for those who are still following along, (are you still there Lazz? I hope so) can deduce with the current information is that the bridge is: 1. a gibson patented applied for product. Application was released in mid 1982 which would make sense as to why they were not seen on models before 1982. 2. it was installed on at least some of the 1982-83 Explorer E2's either as "original" ,possibly an upgrade or maybe even just as a test run? To be determined. 3. was probably somewhat of a failure (this is my guess) or possibly not quite unique enough to get a full patent or perhaps Mr. Wall wanted a piece of the action for "his idea" This would also explain why there is no branding or Identification numbers on them at the time if they were still somewhat "prototype" So what's left to learn? 1. Did these have any kind of real name or model assigned to them 2. why, when, how long and how many were installed? 3. Were they ever "mass produced? doubt it.. 4. Were they installed as "Original" equipment when the guitar was built or were they some form of special request from the customer? Still making them Original to the Guitar but not necessarily original to the E2 line. Laaz here's where we split hairs and get into a deeper level of the meaning of "original to the guitar" or "original to the product line". I digress that the Nashville style was original to the overall E2 product line up until 1982 sometime. As I said (and shown in my pics) I own a 79 with the Nashville bridge. My opinion for what it is worth, is that the Nashville style of bridge is original to the E2 line at least up until sometime in 1982. Now if they used both styles indiscriminately from 82 through the rest of the E2 lifecycle then we could say that they were both OEM starting sometime in 1982. If at some point in 82 or 83 they exclusively began using the what we will now call the Rendal Wall bridge then at least for that time period the RW was the OEM bridge on the E2. Again, I think this is probably not the case and they just threw a limited number out there to see how they would fly. What could be gained from this knowledge and why or who should care?: 1. Probably nothing to most and very little to the rest. If you're an E2 owner and you have this bridge I would say it seems to be more unique and possibly rare (definitely hard to find) In which case might add a little more value to your Guitar or at the least some more mystique or uniqueness to your axe than the other E2 owners out there. It could also mean that you got the shaft and own an E2 with a turd for a bridge that was a miserable flop. Still unique in its own right. 2. Laaz might not be so quick to make a sweeping judgement call when someone asks a question even if he thinks he knows everything about the subject ( there could always be an exception) and maybe he even possibly learned something new today that he can share with others other than a short condescending answer in the form of "my word is God" on the subject ... Anythings possible. 3. Maybe others will look at Duane V's posts to my question and see what it means to truly read someones question, read their thoughts, opinions and provided evidence, possibly even do some quick research on there own and then provide some open minded answers to the poster. Just a thought And with that I digress and regards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted November 27, 2010 Share Posted November 27, 2010 3. Maybe others will look at Duane V's posts to my question and see what it means to truly read someones question, read their thoughts, opinions and provided evidence, possibly even do some quick research on there own and then provide some open minded answers to the poster. Just a thought And with that I digress and regards... Well I have to be open minded because I truly don't know jack squat about anything. But Laaz on the other hand is quite the knowledgeable cat when it comes to the Norlin stuff. But I'll let you and Laaz hammer that out.... But let's keep this discussion at a high level, because we all have something to offer.... even a hack like me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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