BluesKing777 Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 OMG....That IS the SNIT!. He has definitely got some mitts on him and plays it so precise and effortlessly...He got DA BLUES... What's a SNIT, Retro? From you birdhide? BluesKing777. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I have trouble believing that a properly-done rosewood bridge with a fixed bone saddle isn't going to sound better than any plastic bridge. To do it properly you may also need to go to a solid maple bridgeplate, if it now has a plywood one. Gibson did not got to plastic bridges to improve tone. They did it to save money, IMHO. The problem with things that change the guitar tone-wise is that we are frequently so used to the old tone, whether it comes from the guitar, your picks, the strings--or more probably a combination of all of the above--that it can take some time to adjust to the change. If it were me, I would make all the bridge-related changes, but keep the same pick type and string type, so that only one variable comes into play at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe B Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 I had Steve Grimes www.grimesguitars.com redo the bridge in custom Brazilian rosewood (to Gibson specs) with pearl dots, a bone nut and bone saddle. Now it has correct intonation. Replaced the first 7 frets and buffed it out a bit to bring out the finish, which was very lifeless. But the way the guitar sounds amazing, very even and thumpy. I explored putting a pick up in, but decided against it. I was on the fence about changing anything, because I like 'em all original, but I am quite happy with the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I had Steve Grimes www.grimesguitars.com redo the bridge in custom Brazilian rosewood (to Gibson specs) with pearl dots, a bone nut and bone saddle. Now it has correct intonation. Replaced the first 7 frets and buffed it out a bit to bring out the finish, which was very lifeless. But the way the guitar sounds amazing, very even and thumpy. Would it be possible for you to describe the difference. You said the plast was good and I understand this is too. Bet many members here are curious to know. I am 10 on a 10 scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe B Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Would it be possible for you to describe the difference. You said the plast was good and I understand this is too. Bet many members here are curious to know. I am 10 on a 10 scale. The original saddle was ceramic and wide. Although the plastic bridge is hollow, all of the hardware weighed 2.75 oz. So getting rid of that was good. The tone before was great, but the guitar would not intonate. Even if the plastic looks like it's in good shape, the slightest warping throws off the intonation. And after 50 years of 6 strings pulling, it can't stay straight. It also had a bit of "sitaring" on some strings. Has a good old James Taylor tone. I expected to be thrown off by the new sound, and kind of was at first. But when I sat down, played it and got a feel for it, I noticed it had even more mojo. Seemed to be much happier with it's new duds. The tone was even, deep and resonant. And it's in tune up the neck. The problem with the plastic bridge is you always ask yourself how much better it would sound with a rosewood one that is actually glued to the guitar. The answer is much better. As longs as you do it to exact Gibson specs, it's all good. If you want to play the guitar, change to the rosewood bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 The original saddle was ceramic and wide. Although the plastic bridge is hollow, all of the hardware weighed 2.27 oz. So getting rid of that was good. The tone before was great, but the guitar would not intonate. Even if the plastic looks like it's in good shape, the slightest warping throws off the intonation. And after 50 years of 6 strings pulling, it can't stay straight. It also had a bit of "sitaring" on some strings. Has a good old James Taylor tone. I expected to be thrown off by the new sound, and kind of was at first. But when I sat down, played it and got a feel for it, I noticed it had even more mojo. Seemed to be much happier with it's new duds. The tone was even, deep and resonant. And it's in tune up the neck. The problem with the plastic bridge is you always ask yourself how much better it would sound with a rosewood one that is actually glued to the guitar. The answer is much better. As longs as you do it to exact Gibson specs, it's all good. If you want to play the guitar, change to the rosewood bridge. Hep for the fast response. As written in an earlier post, it was done on my '63 before I got it. But very curious on the topic. For a long time wondered if there's a soft-like plast-side to those plastic bridges. A dimension where the blend with the ceramic creates something special. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Funny this thread should pop up. I just took possession this past afternoon of a 1966 Epiphone FT-45n Cortez with the plastic bridge. I recently posted in another thread that I had one of these many years ago, as well as the Gibson B25n clone which got played for approx 20 years. They both had a wonderful sound, but the Gibson was structurally compromised behind the plastic bridge, so I replaced it with ebony. The result was virtually no change, other than it being somewhat more weighted towards the treble side sonically. I had high expectations of an improvement in tone before the switch, but now, even though Gibson's original idea was goofy as heck, I'm firmly inclined to leave the plastic bridge on unless there's a structural reason to replace it. As for the Cortez that just landed in my lap - the tone is sweet & ranks right up there with the others I've owned. After 46 years, the plastic bridge is still in great shape & intonation is right on the money, so the bridge will remain. Btw, an earlier post reported the production lifespan of the plastic bridge incorrectly. They showed up on various models during a time frame of five years, from '62 - '66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe B Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 Hep for the fast response. As written in an earlier post, it was done on my '63 before I got it. But very curious on the topic. For a long time wondered if there's a soft-like plast-side to those plastic bridges. A dimension where the blend with the ceramic creates something special. . . The bridge is hollow, so it really doesn't connect with the body. It is attached with 4 screws and I have seen that create a belly and crack the top on some. I don't believe the plastic and ceramic create anything that unique. If I had the choice of a 63 or 64, I would take the 64. That plastic always causes mental anguish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe B Posted July 10, 2012 Author Share Posted July 10, 2012 http://fingerlakesguitarrepair.com/gibson-b-25-new-bridge/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe B Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 After Much better, in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chevalier Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have a '63 Country Western with plastic bridge and adjustable ceramic saddle... all those things a 'proper' acoustic shouldn't have and it sounds fantastic. I am lucky enough to have owned a number of great acoustic over the years including a '58 martin D28 and (more recently) a new Gibson J45 TV. My advice, for what it's worth would be if it ain't broke don't fix it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have a '63 Country Western with plastic bridge and adjustable ceramic saddle... all those things a 'proper' acoustic shouldn't have and it sounds fantastic. I am lucky enough to have owned a number of great acoustic over the years including a '58 martin D28 and (more recently) a new Gibson J45 TV. My advice, for what it's worth would be if it ain't broke don't fix it! The best hummingbird I've played, and best by a country mile, was an older model with the Adj bridge.... I was even tempted by a reissue of that model I'd seen on Thomann in the hope it'd sound like the one I'd tried. Didn't pursue it though... It needn't be the red flag it's made out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 I have a '63 Country Western with plastic bridge and adjustable ceramic saddle... all those things a 'proper' acoustic shouldn't have and it sounds fantastic. I am lucky enough to have owned a number of great acoustic over the years including a '58 martin D28 and (more recently) a new Gibson J45 TV. My advice, for what it's worth would be if it ain't broke don't fix it! Totally agree. If you like the tone & it's structurally sound, leave it alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Can anyone tell me where I find a replacement of that exact plastic adjustable bridge? I have seen the plastic bridges on ebay. I have one you can have. I don't recall what it came off of or even why I have it. I think the problem with an original replacement is that they are not going to be in a lot better shape than what you have. I'll dig mine out, I think it is a bit warped, which happens when the keep shape with the guitar top over time. Drop me a pm and I will let you know if it is worth the effort, what little there would be. I have owned several RW adjustables which I think can be great, would never change one, but I have stayed away from the plastic. Interesting comments from those who own them Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V. Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I just picked up a '64 Epiphone ElDorado (at a too good to pass up price) that has the plastic bridge and ceramic saddle. Unfortunately, the bridge is cracked on the bass side and is pulling away from the top, so replacement probably is the only option.I didn't look at the bridge plate with a mirror, but it feels like it's cracked, so it'll probably need to go also. I strung it up with .11s and it sounds good with good intonation, but don't want to do any further damage. I left for a short vacation right after I got it, but will pay a visit to my local luthier next week to see what he thinks. The guitar is in good structural condition other than the bridge, but cosmetics are not up to collector standards, so I'm probably not hurting any "originality" by fixing a broken part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleinroq Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I have a '62 Country Western that had the plastic bridge with porcelain saddle. It sounded tremendous. Jangly and boomy all at the same time. It had a crack that was worsening so I had to replace it. I tried to find a plastic replacement but none was to be found despite my and my luthier's best attempts. I replaced it with an ebony glued on bridge but kept the porcelain adjustable saddle - to retain the response I had grown accustomed to and also to keep the original aesthetic. We had to make a bunch of adjustments before it and I were happy together again. It sounds even fuller now and the response is amazing. I am very pleased with the result, but just to be clear - if I could have found another plastic bridge I would have put that in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 , , , but just to be clear - if I could have found another plastic bridge I would have put that in. Extraordinary interesting - I still need to play a plastic bridge, ceramic saddled vintage Gibson. But they are rare ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Extraordinary interesting - I still need to play a plastic bridge, ceramic saddled vintage Gibson. But they are rare ! Just because they are rare does not mean they are great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleinroq Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 My 50's LG2 has an adjustable porcelain bridge but glued on mahogany or rosewood. It is pretty special with everything I was needed in a acoustic. Once I made room in my budget I went looking for an adjustable bridge SJ and discovered the CW. Some of these adjustable bridge guitars are amazingly responsive instruments that jump out at you. But only a few of them. I have found that the rosewood saddles dampen the response and feel soft. I tried a good number of them over my long search and was disappointed. Luckily the saddles are interchangeable and available - unfortunately you don't have saddles on hand when you are considering a very large purchase. I got very lucky and was fortunate to be willing to take on the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Some of these adjustable bridge guitars are amazingly responsive instruments that jump out at you. But only a few of them. I have found that the rosewood saddles dampen the response and feel soft. That is my experience with the rosewood adjustable saddles as well. I improved that a bit by setting a bone insert into the rosewood saddle in the one I had. I've since replaced the whole arrangement with a conventional fixed bridge and slot-through saddle like the guitar had originally. Tinker, tinker, tinker..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Just because they are rare does not mean they are great. No - that wouldn't be my angle on it either, but a couple of people have spoken very positive about plastic bridges and I'm curious as the phenomenon so often gets slammed. We know that wood, bone etc. generally are the considered the strongest carriers of vibration - still my philosophy is that the most divine voice of an instrument is a matter of the right combination of components around the wooden box. Not neccesarily being the same as what is seen as the loudest or most effective materials. In essence a box can be helped too far by some components and thus be betrayed or pulled up in fx a boom, too heavy a bass or sharp trebs. For me finding that balanced combo is the clue. It takes more than 7 stars to make The Great Bear come clear in the sky - they gonna be positioned for each other too. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V. Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Update-visited my local luthier yesterday and showed him the El Dorado. He gave me an original plastic bridge he had in his parts drawer, so for now I'll just replace the cracked one as I like the how the guitar sounds the way it is. If I notice any problems down the road, I can always have a new bridge made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleinroq Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Well done. Please let us know how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V. Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I put the new/old bridge on today-piece of cake. Four small lag screws are all that hold it on.Sounds pretty much the same as it did with the cracked bridge. If this one cracks too, I'll replace it with a wooden one, as the bridge plate feels cracked also. Since I got this guitar, I've looked checked dealer listings and Ebay auctions for '63-'64 Gibsons/Epiphones-quite a few of the senior models still have these bridges on them, so apparently a fair amount survived intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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