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Should i get an SG?


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thanks for the suggestions guys. I think ive concluded that im dropping the DS-1 pedal and for my gear, i gonna buy a better amp and possibly an SG or another LP which i will need a budget of around £900 for but its worth the wait :-)

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Pedals, are to augment tone, not for achieving it, alone. You should

get the real "tone" you're looking for, with just the amp, and guitar

combination, alone...IMHO.


Use pedals, very sparingly, to augment, or even color your basic good/

great tone, as required by a particular song, or particular treatment.


So, depending on how you're using (or, misusing???) your pedal(s), may

be more a determining factor, than either your "Epiphone" or your amp.


I'm (just very recently), having some "tone" issues, myself. But they're

more of an inconsistant nature, than any ONE obvious cause. And, it's with

gear that's always been reliable, in the past, both technically, and from a

tone perspective, as well. So...???



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Your Les Paul is OK, I have gone through countless times where the jealous rhythm guitarrist

with his low gain unmodded guitar complained about my 'chainsaw'.


First off, you're just 14. That les paul should be good for at least 10 years of good use (unless it

has some factory problem, doesnt seems so). How old is that guy with his fathers gibson? How prepared

for that instrument do you think he is? Does he even study music? Do you? (not sure what kind of music

you play, but when you're 14, this will not be your last band).


Is your guitar well set? Did you configure it for your own playing, set it all up?

Do you like how it sounds? Maybe you're not a Seymour guy, maybe you should try some DiMarzio pickups.


Another thing, is that, in a band with two guitars, you need to equalize both guitars in a way that you

both can distinguish each other well, and still form a sound unity. Don't let them tell you this and that,

don't let no one touch your amp settings, much less the volume (unless its upwards).


Also, some combinations of guitar X pickup X amplifier work better than others.

The other day I was talking to a studio owner, someone supposed to know something, what he knows is that

he just follows the brands - he plugs a fender guitar on a fender amp, if he sees a gibson/epi on a fender amp,

he will think you're dumb or whatever. You know what, Gibsons/Epis go great on Fender amps.


I think your friend is jealous of your guitar, as you probably got more gain, it might be hard to control

sometimes, and tone it down to a more diplomatic level. What are his pickups? It shouldn't be that off.


Another thing are your pedals. Both of your distortions _must_ be 'compatible', if you know what I mean.


You did well on saving, you're already a little spoiled if this Epi is your first guitar.

Your friend, is spoiled to the neck.


I have both LPs and SGs, lately I have been a bit tired of LPs and have been enjoying the more sinister sounds

of my SG and its P90s, but more because I am starting to find the SG more ergonomic than the LP, as well as

lighter on the back (I'm olde, compared to you).


Tell your richie friend to buy an SG, stay cool with your LP, it will give you years of joy.

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Like i said, when i practicing alone with a backing track, my LP sounds amazing but when im rehearsing with the band, it sounds muddy or faded even though im using the same gear :-(


You know what, that sounds suspiciously like TOO much (band) Volume, overall! So much so,

that you can't (really) hear, clearly, what the other's are doing, or they, you. "Loud" just

to be loud, is...well, basically, Worthless! Dynamics, and proper volume per instrument,

and within the context of both the style of music, and the needs of the song(s), should dictate

the actual volume. Real "Dynamic's are CRITICAL...IMHO. Without that, it's just a jumbled

and noisy, unarticulated, mess. Essentially, if you're a vocal group, at all...the PA should

be the loudest (and Cleanest sounding) "Gear" you own, as a band.


If you doubt what I'm telling you, about "Dynamics," listen to some good Classical Music, or

even Movie Music soundtracts. It's really obvious, and even good musicians, in ALL fields,

know and USE great dynamic's, so effortlessly, it's "just like breathing!"


If you can't get the other's on the same page, that way...move on! Good Luck!



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I may be completely wrong but it kind of sounds like a little teenage image drama where they want you to have a "Gibson" instead of an "Epiphone" when there really isn't much wrong with the tone at all. Especially when I believe you said that he won't let you use his Gibson at rehearsal. Are you sure everyone is hearing with their ears and not their eyes?


I mean there are a ton of suggestions here that are very solid and I am still a pretty new player but it seems a lot of people really think the instrument makes the musician when that simply isn't the case.


With that being said I did go straight to a Gibson because I wanted a well made, American guitar that sort of spoke to me. The 2013 SG Standard was exactly that guitar. It gave me the exact sound I wanted, it had the look I wanted, and it was in the price range of what I was willing to spend. My grandpa had a Gibson most of his life so the brand was sort of in my blood from the start. I felt I had to get one because nothing else would quite cut it for me and that is perfectly fine.


Sometimes brand DOES matter because a certain brand may have sentimental value to you. It may have something that really speaks to you and you may just enjoy having something more expensive that you put a lot of time and money into. You may simply be more attached to the idea of a Gibson and that is perfectly fine, but when it comes right down to it the most important thing is that YOU are happy. If it is a Gibson SG you want, get it. If it is a Gibson LP you want, get that instead. It comes down to what makes you happy in the end because it is more likely that the guitar will be with you for a LOT longer than your friends/bandmates will.


The beautiful thing about the internet is, in the end, if you don't see eye to eye with your band you can still use youtube to gain a following and find a band that will really embrace you.


I don't mean to sound like a jerk here but you are 14... you probably won't be friends with those guys in 5 years anyway. You still have a lot of people to meet and a long way to go.

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To my experience most musicians do have certain problems with listening to their own playing in a band at an overall high volume. I know it from myself as vocalist, guitarist and bassist, while in contrary on drums I always hear my instruments louder than was good for my hearing. In case musicians don't hear out their own playing, this may lead to the "everything louder than everything else" ambitions which of course run into a vicious circle. There is no such thing as an unlimited boost range. You can make "everything louder than everything else" settings for everybody's personal monitor channel on a big stage, but in a considerably sized rehearsal room one will have to know when to start attenuating what's too loud as any skilled FOH and studio mixing engineer does.


In general it is easier for every player and singer to control one's own performance when the overall sound pressure is moderate. High volumes make our hearing unable to precisely evaluate intonation, dynamic and timing. The very problem is that the same limitations make musicians think their level was exactly right when they actually are too loud.


This is meant just as food for thought if it could be worth to check it out, not as an assumption.

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Hey guys. Thanks for the great replies. They were really helpful. Coming back to some of the questions you guys asked... In terms of what amp im using (im not an expert on amps), im using my friends Marshal Stack with a Jim Dunlop Wah pedal as well as a Boss DS-1 distortion pedal goin through it. Also another question that was raised was that, do i get on with my band mates? I really dont know because the drummer and the bass player are my best friends but the vocalist and the rhythm guitarist on the other hand are very picky people. They always want that perfect GNR or ACDC sound which apparently "i cant get" with my gear. So i think im definitely gonna stick to gettin a Gibson, so now im just stuck between, LP or SG?




Dunlop Crybaby is not only IMHO the best wah (widest range), still some people look for the particular VOX Wah tone. Matter of taste.

And, SRSLY, that BOSS DS-1 pedal is totally a drag for the tone you're aiming at. You need to take a serious look into other _analogic_



With all due respect, if I had a son, I wouldn't let him touch a gibson until he starts to show some consistent talent, I do believe that

the worse are your first couple guitars (that IF you keep on playing, not likely if you're into guitar hero -> you go to keyboards then),

the better guitarrist you will turn to be in the future, and besides that, you will _need_ to have to deal with guitarrist things, which

go much beyond those powerchords, and properly restringing your guitar.


I sincerely think, that besides the human component, theres also a paradox going on there - you want to be loud, and still, you want

to sound like a studio polished AC/DC album, listen to the old live real ****, its feedbacks, string wound noise all the time, thats

the real thing. I not only dislike this 'tendency' to studio polish, as this is something totally unreachable for a rehearsal.


During a rehearsal, there is a dynamic that is a constant, the only way to attenuate it is to wear ear protection OR to rehearse using

headphones, everybody.

Because if you don't, the band starts to play, and then a small, reversible acoustic trauma starts to happen on musicians ears, you start not

to hear yourself so well, and then the volume fight starts. So there's often the need to take a break, lower the volume a little bit and

go on. For sure, whose closer to the drummer metals is whose gonna suffer the most trauma. The bass won't hurt your ears, only the high

frequencies cause permanent damage. *this is real, a buddy of mine is deaf like an old man on his 30's, out of not using protection*


It seems like Angus used mostly 57's and maybe some PAFs, how about trading those seymours for a matched couple of 57s or 490s? Maybe a 498T

if you play solos? The feel of a gibson may be a bit different, but your Epi will sound _good_. Keeping the Epi will make you a better

guitarrist IMHO.


As for the LP x SG aspect, if you look back in time, and if you pay attention to design, they're all LPs. The SG being just a double

cutaway LP (of course, there were/are double cutaway 'LPs'), but designed for a better access to the lower frets, without the maple top,

(take off a bit of the punch of the LP), lighter in wheight, as to compete with the Stratocasters that were starting to take off.


So as to wrap it, do you need another cutaway that bad? I am well sure if you come tomorrow with a Gibson angus young/STD SG, your rehearsal won't

be very different than it already is. So you're stuck in between synonyms.


IMHO, the human component (big egos) are the biggest problem in bands that are starting off as well in the best bands of the planet.

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Don't underestimate the simple things, the basics. As with anything electrical or mechanical...it's often the simple things....like is your guitar in tune? Is your guitar properly intonated? Are your strings old/dead? These things can make all the difference in the world! When I was less experienced I traded away perfectly good guitars because I didn't fully appreciate those simple things. Oh, and my son is always beating me up about pressing too hard on the strings.



BTW...you can't go wrong with an SG standard...I agree with the fella (Rush fan) that insists that it's the easiest guitar to play....and the 490/498's are no slouches...especially if you want that AC/DC crunch/growl. Best of luck!!

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

If you have the option to try before you buy...then do that. If the feel and the sound is to your liking...then yes... by all means treat yourself. I've only played an SG once in my life back in '69. It was like playing a Louisville Slugger ball bat... so I'm not a fan... but if you think you might be.....do it!!!!!!

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It may also be as simple as cutting some "bass" in your rig, upping the mids

or treble, a bit...so it "cuts" through the band "mix" (if you actually have

one?). What sounds great, at home, playing along with a backing track, or

simply by oneself, doesn't always (or, even often) happen, without major tweaks

to your settings, for the "live band" dynamic. And, don't judge your volume

or tone, at where you're standing. Get out front, where the audience would

be, and see how the overall sound is, as well as the individual player's

volume and tone. I think you'll discover that it's quite different, than what

you hear "on stage!"


Cheers, and good luck!



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  • 2 weeks later...

Should I get an SG? Yes. That's like asking if you should breathe. If you're a tone-hound, get the new 2013 Standard with the '57 Classic pickups. They're extremely versatile, and sound great clean, with minor distortion, and with heavy distortion. If you play primarily power chords or heavy metal, the lower end faded SGs are fine.

But if you want to play more complicated chords, you gotta turn that distortion down, so the nuances of the chord shine through, and the Standard is better for this, IMO. Even lead tone is better with the distortion turned down, but of course, you'll lose some sustain and drive. I play a lot of 70's Todd Rundgren stuff, and the Standard completely nails that tone. I'm not here to criticize Epiphone, but if we're all honest, almost everyone who buys an Epiphone, really wants a Gibson, and either can't afford it, or in the majority of cases, is too impatient to save up the extra money. The best advice you'll get all day - unless you're dirt poor, be patient and get the Gibson. It's worth the wait. And be sure it's set-up properly.

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Many years ago I was looking at a used SG and the sales guy told me to avoid them...Junk...Just a plank. Years later, I finally tried one. I have owned y6 of them since then and now own 2 1999 Gibson SG Specials, both different types of black...One the standard Gibson gloss black with years of road dings and scratches and dents, the other is an uncommon finish Gibson called Ebony Stain, a translucent finish that lets the wood grain show through. They made only a few hundred of these per year for maybe 6 years or so. It has a one piece body, very nice wood and the 2 guitars sound a bit different to me, but I really love them both..to the point where I have started selling off some of my other guitars.


I love the standard 490 series pickups and have no plans to change them.


The SG is a REAL guitar...you can play any kind of music on it you can think of. It is very comfortable to play, if a bit top heavy (Use a wide leather strap). Very fast and long neck, beautiful combinations of sounds from the Humbuckers and I am sure the P 90 versions are great, but I already own 3 guitars with P 90's and don't need more.


Try to get to play one. If you can't, look around for a used Gibson SG and that is affordable. It's pretty hard to go wrong with them.



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Like i say dude, when im playin a Gibson, no complaints from band mates but when the Epi is in my hands, they always complain. I on the other hand think that the Epi sounds great and find no probs but the rythem guitarist is like, "go f****** buy yourself a Gibson then rock out cause the Epi isnt cuttin in".


BTW - been playin for 4 years and have alot of playin experience so its 100% not a prob with me



Dude you left everyone hangin,, what did you end up doing?


What I was going to suggest is that it sounds to me like your bandmates have a brand problem.

Do a blind taste test.

Have them all turn around while you play both or play the Gibby and the Epi behind a curtain or something. I bet if they can't see the headstock, their pompous little a$$es can't tell the difference. Unless you're playing with a bunch of seasoned musicians I doubt very much they can tell.

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