Bridge Plate Request

[Smurfbird]

I wish I could answer your question, but I think it's VERY important that this go beyond a Warranty issue and to a Manufacturing Defect issue.

 

Every person who bought a Gibson bought it for its high-end quality. To receive less than that is wrong. Whether or not a warranty is in effect -- and a pick guard replacement, really Gibson? -- should not affect Gibson fixing what is a structural hazard.

 

My Gibsons are second hand. I am preparing myself to look. If I find issues, I will not be covered? Despite it being no one's fault but Gibson for screwing up the bridge plate?

 

Shameful.

[j45nick]

I wish I could answer your question, but I think it's VERY important that this go beyond a Warranty issue and to a Manufacturing Defect issue.

 

Every person who bought a Gibson bought it for its high-end quality. To receive less than that is wrong. Whether or not a warranty is in effect -- and a pick guard replacement, really Gibson? -- should not affect Gibson fixing what is a structural hazard.

 

My Gibsons are second hand. I am preparing myself to look. If I find issues, I will not be covered? Despite it being no one's fault but Gibson for screwing up the bridge plate?

 

Shameful.

 

 

Both Gibson and Martin have warranties that are only valid for the original purchaser, I believe,

[Smurfbird]

I understand that, Nick.

 

However, a structural flaw in the making of the guitar should be a recall issue and not a warranty issue. Do you agree?

[bram99]

Just got final word from Gibson....WARRANTY VOID!

 

I guess my changing a piece a plastic on the soundboard means they do not have to deal with a QA/QC fail.....

 

Now I am pissed.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Now I am faced with a dilemma....

 

I would hope Gibson will sort this issue out for you Bram... In my limited experience with CS and reports from these pages , I have only good words to say about Gibson after care.

 

A 6 month old guitar purchased by the original owner with this type of issue should be fixed, no question... the change of pickguard should not affect any warranty. I believe they will remedy the situation, but it may not, and maybe should not, be through this forum.

 

This is a can or worms indeed.

 

I can see not reason why this is a part of the manufacturing process...and it has seriously put me off the idea of ordering a new Gibson guitar. Especially one with a rectangular bridge. I didn't want to say that, but it's true.

 

EDIT

 

well i was writing as you where posting Bram,.... I would still try and speak to someone at Bozeman..and take it away from the forum here.

[j45nick]

I understand that, Nick.

 

However, a structural flaw in the making of the guitar should be a recall issue and not a warranty issue. Do you agree?

 

 

I don't disagree at all, but I just say "good luck" to all of us second-hand Gibson Montana owners. Personally, I would prefer not to replace my bridge plates, as I know it can be a difficult job to do without tearing off a lot of grain from the underside of the top. And if you have a dowel that is partially through the bridge plate, that is an even more difficult remove/replace problem, as the dowel will the glued to everything, and make removal of the plate even more difficult.

 

It is annoying to even have to face this issue on guitars with MSRP's of $4-$7k.

 

I still don't quite understand exactly how this is used for alignment, and can't believe there isn't a better way to do this that doesn't potentially compromise the bridge plate. I just find it discouraging.

[Smurfbird]

Well, folks, looks like it's time to bring your mirrors with you!

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I still don't quite understand exactly how this is used for alignment, and can't believe there isn't a better way to do this that doesn't potentially compromise the bridge plate. I just find it discouraging.

 

Agree Nick,

 

on the video it shows the guitar is finished before the bridge is fitted...all processes before the bridge being fitted are shown and there is no hole in the plate until the actual bridge is about to be fitted.

 

Anther video on youtube shows an employee manually using a hand tool...not a drill...and pushing thru this locating hole above the bridge area.

 

It must be simply a time saving issue. I surmised why even make a hole in the plate? just fill the hole in the top with a shorter dowel and level it off..WITHOUT going thru the plate...you dont have to touch the plate.

 

EDIT ..( i suppose it makes this hole stronger to use the plate also. )

 

but then I thought this would interfere with the finish... so why not do it before any finnish is applied......? in fact the finish around the bridge is marked and removed before fitting the actual bridge

 

I don't know..it just doesn't make sense does it.... this is a really crazy ..major development uncovered here... I feel like I'm over reacting..but then not.

 

It has really given a bad taste.

[Hogeye]

Just got final word from Gibson....WARRANTY VOID!

 

I guess my changing a piece a plastic on the soundboard means they do not have to deal with a QA/QC fail.....

 

Now I am pissed.

This is not the final word. They will take a look at your guitar and do what they think is proper.

 

The pickguard should not be an issue as they are consumable like strings and tuners and not under warranty so there should be no issue with you replacing yours. Gibson will contact you today. This will be taken care of promptly to your satisfaction as Gibson is a great company and their custoner service is the best in the industry.

 

Please let us know how this works out for you.

[bobouz]

So do I...?

1. Send the guitar across country as is and hope they fix it

2. Replace the pickguard with a factory one (if I can find another and is a pain in the butt) and then send the guitar and hope they fix it

3. Count the warranty as void and fix it myself. I have bridge plate material and a small triangle or rectangle glued over the dowel hole (between the D & G string holes) would keep the string balls redirected to solid bridge plate material

4. Count the warranty as void and buy and use one of these StewMac bridge savers.... http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Bridges/BridgeSaver.html

If the warranty issue is not sorted out to your satisfaction, as a quick fix, I'd purchase the simple metal overlaying plate sold by StewMac, which was referenced earlier in this thread (not what you are citing in #4). Fortunately, the structural integrity of your top & bridge has not been compromised at this point. I'd then explore all the repair options short of tearing out the original bridge plate (including the bidge saver plugs). With the current state of the bridge plate, keeping the ball ends rerouted with new grooves won't cut it long term. If the instrument were mine, I'd consider an option I mentioned earlier, which would be to glue a small & relatively thin piece of maple or birch onto the bridge plate & drill out the pin holes. The metal StewMac piece could even serve as a template (although I'd want the maple/birch to cover a somewhat larger area). On the other hand, if the tone remains to your liking with the StewMac plate, you could simply leave it in place.

 

It is interesting to note that this guitar is only six months old, and significant bridge plate wear has already occurred. To reiterate, properly seating the ball end of your strings at every string change should be considered a part of routine maintenance. If this had been done (assuming they were properly seated when it left the factory), the two strings nearest the dowel most likely would not have become skewed inward. The poorly placed dowel further compromises & weakens the bridge plate wood in this critical area, since there is so little of the plate left to absorb the string's tension. Yes, it's a bit of a pain to check the alignment every time, but the long term benefit is worth it.

[bram99]

Update.....About an hour after my post this morning about the warranty being void, I was again contacted by Gibson and told that I should ship the guitar for repair under warranty. Hogeye, I agree with you about Gibson because the service rep has been friendly and prompt in reponse to my inquiry. But it was looking like the door was shut on warranty service until they recontacted me and told me to send it in. So off it goes for repair, and my faith is restored.

 

bobouz....i have only done three string changes and everytime I have reached inside the quitar to make sure the strings are set up against the bridge plate, before bringing them up to tension. I have been playing for over 30 years and building for about 10, so I am hip to the need to properly seat strings, that is not what is happening here....What you see in my photos is not the result of unseated strings, 1. the mystery hole is touching the string hole....and 2. each of the other string holes apears to be drilled through without a backing block....it is tearout from the drilling of the hole, not wear from an unseated string. Look at the perimeter of the two left strings and you can see this tearout even on sides of the hole where the strings dont touch.

[bobouz]

bobouz....i have only done three string changes and everytime I have reached inside the quitar to make sure the strings are set up against the bridge plate, before bringing them up to tension. I have been playing for over 30 years and building for about 10, so I am hip to the need to properly seat strings, that is not what is happening here....What you see in my photos is not the result of unseated strings, 1. the mystery hole is touching the string hole....and 2. each of the other string holes apears to be drilled through without a backing block....it is tearout from the drilling of the hole, not wear from an unseated string. Look at the perimeter of the two left strings and you can see this tearout even on sides of the hole where the strings dont touch.

Yes indeed, that makes sense.

Glad to hear Gibson is honoring your warranty!

[j45nick]

bobouz....i have only done three string changes and everytime I have reached inside the quitar to make sure the strings are set up against the bridge plate, before bringing them up to tension. I have been playing for over 30 years and building for about 10, so I am hip to the need to properly seat strings, that is not what is happening here....What you see in my photos is not the result of unseated strings, 1. the mystery hole is touching the string hole....and 2. each of the other string holes apears to be drilled through without a backing block....it is tearout from the drilling of the hole, not wear from an unseated string. Look at the perimeter of the two left strings and you can see this tearout even on sides of the hole where the strings dont touch.

 

 

Exactly!

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Well done Hogeye.

[Hogeye]

Well done Hogeye.

Well done Gibson Customer Service.

[Hogeye]

I should have added: Don't ever take a saw and add slots to your bridge plate. Ever. That will void your warranty for sure. I gave you a perfectly good link to Stew Mac and the exact fixture for the percieved problems. It will NOT void your warranty. If you have a problem just call customer service or take your guitar to a Gibson Service Center if there is one close to your house. If you don't have a warranty just buy the Stew Mac device and get on with your life. We have more imporatnt issued at hand. Oh, I don't know maybe my rosette is covered by my pickguard.

 

There are some here that act like Gibson is trying to injure them. This is not the case at all. This is a good thread as Gibson needs to be aware of this issue and maybe change their methhod of dealing with this percieved problem. Thanks to all that have suffered thru my pitiful attempts to explain issues as I see them.

[bobouz]

bobouz....i have only done three string changes and everytime I have reached inside the quitar to make sure the strings are set up against the bridge plate, before bringing them up to tension. I have been playing for over 30 years and building for about 10, so I am hip to the need to properly seat strings, that is not what is happening here....What you see in my photos is not the result of unseated strings, 1. the mystery hole is touching the string hole....and 2. each of the other string holes apears to be drilled through without a backing block....it is tearout from the drilling of the hole, not wear from an unseated string. Look at the perimeter of the two left strings and you can see this tearout even on sides of the hole where the strings dont touch.

bram99 - Had a chance to go back again and look closely at your bridge plate in post #71. The angled indentions leading towards the dowel are similar to damage from improperly seated strings, and led me down that road. But your explanation certainly clarifies what has occurred. This confirms that the integrity of the bridge plate was compromised before it left Montana, and leads to a second issue that needs to be addressed by Gibson - ideal drilling technique to prevent damage to the plate - along with revisiting the existence of the dowel and it's placement.

 

Thanks for sharing the info, and best of luck with your warranty repair work.

FWIW, my one Gibson warranty experience (Nashville) was very pleasantly and professionally handled (thank you Rame E!).