Bridge Plate Request

[duluthdan]

I wonder if I might impose. A couple of weeks ago I was trying to track down an elusive sound, and occassioned to put a mirror to the bridgeplate of my Southern Jumbo. What I saw was that there was some sort of hole drilled into the bridge plate that was intruding quite close to the bridge pins and sort of forcing, or at least accomodating, the ends of the D and G to seek a not so ideal seating position. Below is a picture comparing the plate on my SJ to the plate of someone elses guitar on this forum (can't remember who, even though I nabbed their picture) I'd be especially curious for those of you who may have rectangle bridges (which mine is) This misplaced hole does not appear at all on my J-45 or the JB.

 

So, see if you can get out those mirrors and give me a read?

[sjl200]

Yep the hole is there but not close TO the pins.

Custom shop J45.

[aliasphobias]

My '92 AJ and '93 Hummingbird (not a rectangle bridge) both have the hole but it is clear of the peg holes.

[zombywoof]

Refresh my memory on this - is this a pre-drilled hole in the bridge plate underneath the saddle to allow for a wire from a pickup to pass through?

 

While I check the bridge plates on old guitars I would never think of having to bring a mirror to scope out that on a newish guitar.

[RichG]

Mine is between the two pictures. Not as bad as the top one, but closer than the bottom one, on both my AJ and SCSJ

 

Rich

[michaeljohnr]

That's mine in the OP's lower photo.

[bobouz]

The ball ends going into the extra misplaced hole at an angle are problematic. The tension of those two strings will be pressing against the spruce top rather than the bridge plate.

 

If the guitar were mine, I would place two small grooves in the bridge plate to reroute & guide those two strings so that the ball ends are fully & freshly contacting the bridge plate in a new location, away from the misplaced hole. Then I would check at every restringing to assure that each ball rested properly in the new location.

 

Whatever the purpose of the extra hole in the bridgeplate, it's location should not have intruded on the bridge pin holes. It could be filled with a plug of maple for a more long term structural fix, but the quick fix above might do the trick if there is enough uncompromised wood left in the bridge plate.

 

Btw, it appears the plate may have a slight crack between the 2nd & 3rd string pins. That is not necessarily a cause for immediate concern. I've seen bridge plates that remained stable with cracks between every pin hole - but the possible crack is also in conjunction with one of the pin holes that has already been compromised by the misplaced hole, so this needs to be monitored for changes. Most importantly, keep all the ball ends seated with as straight forward of a pitch as possible. With the two string holes already compromised next to the extra hole, the rerouting grooves will need to lean somewhat away from the misplaced hole to capture a broader surface of the bridge plate, as the bridge plate wood already looks pretty chewed up, and there needs to be enough stable wood to create a guidance groove that won't collapse under string pressure.

 

Hope this is helpful.

[duluthdan]

That's mine in the OP's lower photo.

Thanks Michael ! Tidy job on the string positions too. Is your bridge slotted?

[PickitPaul]

Why is this hole there, anyone....anyone at all??

[bobouz]

Why is this hole there, anyone....anyone at all??

Perhaps it is/was used in some models for the wiring of an under saddle pickup.

Otherwise, can't think of any structural reason for it to be there.

[duluthdan]

Perhaps it is/was used in some models for the wiring of an under saddle pickup.

Otherwise, can't think of any structural reason for it to be there.

This from Hogeye back on April 8th: "I just talked to a guy at Gibson. The hole is a locating hole used to get the top on the body correctly. If someone makes a mistake and puts a short scale top on a long scale body,or the other way around, then the holes for the bridge pins will be out of their proper position when the bridge is put on.. This would explain the problem. If this is the case then this is not a design problem but a mistake by an employee that used the wrong top. The bridge plate needs to be replaced and it needs to be relocated to adjust for the scale length. End of the problem. It's not as big a problem as it seems. It is a one of a kind mistake."

 

I still don't get it - looking forward to a factory tour in June where perhaps the mystery will be revealed.

[michaeljohnr]

Thanks Michael ! Tidy job on the string positions too. Is your bridge slotted?

 

Yes, it's slotted.

 

I'm also careful to make sure the balls are seated correctly when I restring. I know it's a little OCD, but I hope it reduces wear on the plate over time versus the extra minute it takes me to restring.

[Dave F]

I posted the picture of my J200 on the other thread.

Since then, I checked my HB & HB Pro.

Both looked like my J200.

The hole was plenty far enough away from the bridgepin holes.

[bram99]

I noticed this extra hole during a string change on my 2012 Custom shop LG-2 (rectangular bridge) a few months ago.....I like to reach in there and feel the strings seated in the right location before bringing them up to tension..... Mine looks just like the top photo....way too close to bridge pin hole and something I am going to have to deal with. I am pretty careful when seating strings, but I took a picture inside and looks like the guitar string is already trying to find its way to the extra hole...it will definitely be a real problem as time goes by......I am going contact Gibson.

 

My 2009 J45-TV (belly bridge) is like bottom picture....a good distance from the bridge pin hole.....no problem.

[GotTheSilver]

This from Hogeye back on April 8th: "I just talked to a guy at Gibson. The hole is a locating hole used to get the top on the body correctly. If someone makes a mistake and puts a short scale top on a long scale body,or the other way around, then the holes for the bridge pins will be out of their proper position when the bridge is put on.. This would explain the problem. If this is the case then this is not a design problem but a mistake by an employee that used the wrong top. The bridge plate needs to be replaced and it needs to be relocated to adjust for the scale length. End of the problem. It's not as big a problem as it seems. It is a one of a kind mistake."

 

I still don't get it - looking forward to a factory tour in June where perhaps the mystery will be revealed.

 

Sounds to me like a manufacturing defect that I would expect to be covered under warranty!

[j45nick]

Sounds to me like a manufacturing defect that I would expect to be covered under warranty!

 

 

That's fine if you are the original owner who purchased the guitar new from an authorized dealer. Otherwise, there is no warranty. It's not like a car recall, where they fix it even if it's a car you didn't buy new.

 

Unfortunately, "looking under the hood" in this detail is something few of us would have thought of doing. I've owned Gibsons for almost 50 years, and it never ocurred to me the it would come out of the factory with a potential latent defect of this type.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Unfortunately, "looking under the hood" in this detail is something few of us would have thought of doing. I've owned Gibsons for almost 50 years, and it never ocurred to me the it would come out of the factory with a potential latent defect of this type.

 

Im with you Nick,

 

as i said in the other thread, I think this is a serious issue..and a pattern seems to be emerging. Belly bridges seem to be ok..as the plate is larger ? I know the HB TV plate is pretty big..and the guide hole is well away from the pin holes.

 

But it seems a rectangular bridge maybe smaller ..so not as much rrom to play with?

 

I am surprised this has not had more response as i think it is major if a lot of guitars coming out of Bozeman have this guide dent so close to the pin holes... and it seems crazy you need to be checking for this kind of thing on a new built guitar.

[bobouz]

I am surprised this has not had more response as i think it is major if a lot of guitars coming out of Bozeman have this guide dent so close to the pin holes... and it seems crazy you need to be checking for this kind of thing on a new built guitar.

As I hopefully made clear in post #7, this is serious stuff.

 

A Guitar under warranty should be structurally stabilized by Gibson.

A guitar out of warranty can be rather quickly addressed by the owner

in the quick fix manner I described, just to get pressure off the spruce top.

If not addressed, the bridge plate cannot properly absorb & distribute pressure.

 

This is the kind of thing that, worst case scenario, can lead to a lifting spot

which potentially compromises the bridge and/or creates a crack in the spruce.

[bram99]

Well...I sent Gibson Service an email today about this problem on my new LG-2, stating pretty strongly that it will fail if not fixed. I will let you all know how they deal with it.....

 

A drilled hole in the bridge plate adjacent to the bridge pin holes makes absolutely no sense to me.....the hole may be used to locate the bridge during assembly and it is already inside the guitar when the bridge pin holes are drilled, but the design team should be able to predict them being too close after final assembly......I suppose I could cut a maple plug and fill it, but Gibson should fix it not me.....also given the tear out on the bridge pin holes, it doesn't look like they put a backing block against the bridge plate when drilling, so it is not just a simple drop in of the plug, the bridge plate may need to be replaced...by the way it also looks like the glue man barfed in there.

 

Careful looking under the hood, you may find similar cause for disappointment....my favorite guitar too....I am bummed

[PickitPaul]

As I hopefully made clear in post #7, this is serious stuff.

 

A Guitar under warranty should be structurally stabilized by Gibson.

A guitar out of warranty can be rather quickly addressed by the owner

in the quick fix manner I described, just to get pressure off the spruce top.

If not addressed, the bridge plate cannot properly absorb & distribute pressure.

 

This is the kind of thing that, worst case scenario, can lead to a lifting spot

which potentially compromises the bridge and/or creates a crack in the spruce.

 

 

Can you go into more detail on how to do the quick fix? How do you go about making a deeper cut into bridge for string?

[bobouz]

Can you go into more detail on how to do the quick fix? How do you go about making a deeper cut into bridge for string?

Just to be clear, the groove would be cut into the bridge plate, not the bridge.

 

First of all, it's very helpful to have a mirror that can lay flat on the inside back of the guitar. I have a mirror that's about 4"x2.5", which allow a full view of the bridge plate above & keeps both hands free.

 

Every situation is different, depending on how chewed up the bridge plate is, but if you're lucky, it's sometimes possible to simply reach in and hold the ball end of the string in place while you bring up the tension. The string itself then creates the new groove. If it holds and the string is up to pitch, you're good to go until the next string change - where the process should be repeated to assure you catch the same groove.

 

If that didn't do the trick, my next attempt would be to use a very small, long, fine, & sharp-edged triangular file to first press an indention in the desired location, and then make a few passes to cut a V-shaped groove just deep enough to hold the string.

 

If the bridge plate wood itself is too compromised and/or soft in the critical area, the ball end of the string might pop right back into the undesired location - making it impossible to re-seat the string without having more involved repair work done on the instrument.

[PickitPaul]

This is a bummer I just looked under my top, and as you can see in the pictures, I've got a hole right in the middle of my bridge pin holes. Looks like the G string ball end is all inside this hole.

 

This is a '91 SJ45. I am not the original owner. How would you get the string into a groove in this case?

 

 

 

[j45nick]

This is a bummer I just looked under my top, and as you can see in the pictures, I've got a hole right in the middle of my bridge pin holes. Looks like the G string ball end is all inside this hole.

 

This is a '91 SJ45. I am not the original owner. How would you get the string into a groove in this case?

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is an accident waiting to happen. There is absolutely no excuse for this. I've bought my last Bozeman acoustic until we get some resolution of this problem out of Gibson.

 

Jeremy Morton, where are you when we need you?

[PickitPaul]

This should not have left the factory like this. I don't care that if i am the original owner or not, Gibson should stand behind this, it is not a wear issue, its a structural problem that was there at time of production.

 

Worse case, what can happen? Bridge pin pull up through top, and cause a crack in the spruce top?

[j45nick]

 

Worse case, what can happen? Bridge pin pull up through top, and cause a crack in the spruce top?

,

 

More likely you will eventually be uanble to seat the pin properly, and the string simply won't stay in the guitar. It's not right in any case.