Caps for 50s wiring

[blueslespaultone]

I like the idea of the paper in oil luxe bumblebee repro

But what about, vitamin Q or T or the

Russian K40Y-9 .022uf 400v 10% PIO capacitor

Which are at 10 bucks each, I'm gonna do the 50s wiring

Just wondering on the cap values, and if its worth paying extra for the luxe or Xbrand cap

I'm also thinking .015 on neck and .022 on bridge

What do you guys think?

When I do, I'm gonna post a before video and after

[tazzboy]

I currently have Vitamin Q caps in my Les Paul. I am going to be trying out the Luxe caps as soon I get back a couple speakers that I have sent off to get re cone.

[blueslespaultone]

I've been looking at the Russian PIO caps K40Y-9 .022 400v

Supposedly read they are the same as the PIO luxe repro bees .022

And some K42y-2 .022 600v that are just as good, found from 5-10 bucks each

[Tim Plains]

^ I believe that is right. A lot of what you are paying for with Luxe Bees is the look.

[blueslespaultone]

Thanks Tim,

That might just save me some money

[tazzboy]

They used to but now I have that Luxe makes their own caps.

[badbluesplayer]

Yes - The Russian caps are what they supposedly make the Luxe repro's from.

 

I've had some of the Russian ones. They are paper in oil. So are vintage Sprague's (Vitamin Q's). HYREL's are a selected version of Spragues. They are also paper in oil. All the PIO caps I've had were great.

 

I've used Vitamin T's, which are "oil filled" I think. They're fine.

 

I personally like to find NOS Vitamin q's or HYREL's on ebay. They're ten to fifteen dollars apiece.

 

0.022 is stock. If you install a 0.015 on the neck, the tone won't roll off as much when you turn the tone control down, but you'll get the brassy woman tone thing going. [thumbup] That's how I have my LP wired.

 

I don't like 50's wiring. Been there, done that.

 

[blueslespaultone]

Yes - The Russian caps are what they supposedly make the Luxe repro's from.

 

I've had some of the Russian ones. They are paper in oil. So are vintage Sprague's (Vitamin Q's). HYREL's are a selected version of Spragues. They are also paper in oil. All the PIO caps I've had were great.

 

I've used Vitamin T's, which are "oil filled" I think. They're fine.

 

I personally like to find NOS Vitamin q's or HYREL's on ebay. They're ten to fifteen dollars apiece.

 

0.022 is stock. If you install a 0.015 on the neck, the tone won't roll off as much when you turn the tone control down, but you'll get the brassy woman tone thing going. [thumbup] That's how I have my LP wired.

 

I don't like 50's wiring. Been there, done that.

 

i found the sprague combo .015 and .022 200vdc for 34.99

[blueslespaultone]

i found some rated at 100 vdc is that too low, whats the voltage range?

[Guest Farnsbarns]

i found some rated at 100 vdc is that too low, whats the voltage range?

 

All these caps will be rated far higher than necessary. 100vdc is fine.

[blueslespaultone]

All these caps will be rated far higher than necessary. 100vdc is fine.

thanks man

[tazzboy]

Voltage in Cap for guitars doesn't matter. You can use 400 Volt caps or 50V caps. The only time it matters is for amplifier.

[btoth76]

Hello! Since Your guitar produces signals in the range of milli-Volts, even a 1 Volt capacitor would be an overkill. The PIOs were made for audio equipment in mind that's why they are rated that high. That's what Tazzboy meant with "The only time it matters is for amplifier".

 

Cheers... Bence

[blueslespaultone]

Cool, all have been helpful

[Sgt.]

I like the idea of the paper in oil luxe bumblebee repro

But what about, vitamin Q or T or the

Russian K40Y-9 .022uf 400v 10% PIO capacitor

Which are at 10 bucks each, I'm gonna do the 50s wiring

Just wondering on the cap values, and if its worth paying extra for the luxe or Xbrand cap

I'm also thinking .015 on neck and .022 on bridge

What do you guys think?

When I do, I'm gonna post a before video and after

 

StewMac video: Auditioning tone caps

[kaicho8888]

Technically speaking, the uF rating for a capacitor is what matters. Each capacitor has a tolerance factor. With the high volume that we play, I don't think you can tell any difference. But if you want tradition or looks then go with PIO.

[IndianScout]

I'm running some Vintage Astron .027 caps..

 

[badbluesplayer]

Technically speaking, the uF rating for a capacitor is what matters. Each capacitor has a tolerance factor. With the high volume that we play, I don't think you can tell any difference. But if you want tradition or looks then go with PIO.

A trained ear can tell the difference. Maybe more so at high volume.

[surfpup]

A trained ear can tell the difference. Maybe more so at high volume.

 

And with less distortion! A lot of guys use so much gain that I doubt anyone could hear a difference in caps. I have noticed a tonal improvement with both Luxe and Vitamin Q .022 caps. But I don't really notice much difference between the two. AllPARTS has a nice Vitamin Q reissue that is cheaper than the Luxe (unless you need the retro look).

[Sgt.]

I like the idea of the paper in oil luxe bumblebee repro

But what about, vitamin Q or T or the

Russian K40Y-9 .022uf 400v 10% PIO capacitor

Which are at 10 bucks each, I'm gonna do the 50s wiring

Just wondering on the cap values, and if its worth paying extra for the luxe or Xbrand cap

I'm also thinking .015 on neck and .022 on bridge

What do you guys think?

When I do, I'm gonna post a before video and after

 

I've got a pair of Luxe bee's .22s and I like them. They're much larger than the cheap 2 cent ceramic discs that were stock in my lp studio. they're kind of like big plastic tonsils, haw haw (thank you Nelson Muntz). (I really don't know what tonsils look like but you can imagine). Some feed on the net says the luxe pios are really General Instruments GIAP009A1 metalized film caps. there's no way to find out unless you want to take one apart. in my opinion they were the most expensive and they do great, no complaints, but for a more savy consumer maybe you can find a good comparison in the Russian pios for less buck. As far as 50's wiring, you get two independent volume/tone controls when the toggle is in the middle, whereas the stock wiring on my 2011 lp studio had a master volume on the bottom volume knob (something like that) in the middle toggle. also look at treble bleeds, for the cost (it's cheap) it keeps the volume/tone clarity as you turn down the knob, sound doesn't degrade and get dark or muddy as you turn the knobs down. It looks like my treble bleeds/vol. mods are small wax in paper caps with another light blue striped cap on top. to tell the truth i think the aftermarket electronics upgrade is a great way to improve the quality on the guitar, which you would pay much more to get stock in a more expensive gibson.

[Sgt.]

I like the idea of the paper in oil luxe bumblebee repro

But what about, vitamin Q or T or the

Russian K40Y-9 .022uf 400v 10% PIO capacitor

Which are at 10 bucks each, I'm gonna do the 50s wiring

Just wondering on the cap values, and if its worth paying extra for the luxe or Xbrand cap

I'm also thinking .015 on neck and .022 on bridge

What do you guys think?

When I do, I'm gonna post a before video and after

here's some feed on the bumble bee's debate on the SG forum:

"R9, on 29 October 2010 - 04:36 PM, said:

 

What a joke. Gibson's Bees only look like the part but they are referred to as fake Bees because they're not paper in oil capacitors like the original ones Gibson used. If you want real PIO reproduction Bees, they cost around $40/pair and are a hundred times better than those. Google "Luxe capacitors".

 

PIO Bees are an upgrade but they often have little to no effect if you keep everything on 10. They more so work their magic as you roll down the tone pots. Having said that, I replaced only the caps on two historic LPs and they made no difference on one guitar but a huge difference in the other (even with everything on 10).

 

 

 

Both the Gibson and Luxe caps are fakes. Gibson is taking modern Wesco 32PL 223J Polypropylene caps and putting them in fake Bumblebee shells. So you are paying over $50 for a new cap in a fake old cap shell.

 

And the Luxe caps are also not PIO. They are General Instruments GIAP009A1 metalized film caps.

 

So everyone can save their money and buy two film caps for under a buck and get the same tone. Besides that, caps don't change the tone unless you have the tone control on zero."

 

http://www.kernelofw...10/uncloak.html

 

http://classicamplif...eBumblebees.htm

[kaicho8888]

A trained ear can tell the difference. Maybe more so at high volume.

 

 

If there is a difference with the same rated uF, then it's the difference in rating. For example, I don't know if our ears can pick +/- 10% difference from one particular frequency cut-off. I suppose the major difference is that various types of caps have different +/- uF values for a given rating; therefore differing in frequency cut-offs.

 

I wonder if anybody tried taking data for the various types of caps. Better if taken with a frequency analyzer rather than subjective individual ear analyzer...

 

PIO traditionalist, epoxy, or whatever... bottom line is whatever turns you "on" and makes you play more!

[Sgt.]

If there is a difference with the same rated uF, then it's the difference in rating. For example, I don't know if our ears can pick +/- 10% difference from one particular frequency cut-off. I suppose the major difference is that various types of caps have different +/- uF values for a given rating; therefore differing in frequency cut-offs.

 

I wonder if anybody tried taking data for the various types of caps. Better if taken with a frequency analyzer rather than subjective individual ear analyzer...

 

PIO traditionalist, epoxy, or whatever... bottom line is whatever turns you "on" and makes you play more!

 

I wonder if the difference is in the dialectric (the type of material inside the cap). I can definitely hear a softer, warmer, more woody tone with the bee's compared to the ceramic disc type caps. The difference is like comparing alnico to ceramic pickups or speakers.

I've been searching feed on the Luxe Bumblebee repro's and finding that the original pio bees (paper in oil) contained a hazardous material so are no longer made with that material. Some are saying by opening the Luxe bee that it's a Wesco polypropylene film cap painted to look like the original bees, not true to the original pio (because of the hazardous pcb materials are no longer used). I guess original pios would eventually be prone to drying out and losing their charge, guess too that the Luxe repros won't do that. I have the Luxe bees and like them, they were expensive compared to other caps but I like them ... Gibson customers have complained to no end about the price of the Gibson Historic bumblebee's ... what justifies the price?

I recently went to a Long & McQuade Grand Opening and tried out a few Gibby's off the wall. I wanted to see specifically if the VOS 58' plain top reissue w/bee's was similar sounding to the Studio that I've equipped with the Luxe bees. There's similarity in the tone quality and the action was good. My Studio had a bit of a fret buzz, but with new 50's wiring w/bees and treble bleed I can see I've save myself money by upgrading a Studio. There's differences in looks such as a one piece plain maple top, binding, nickel hardware and the bridge is the old style that is screwed directly into the body instead of anchored on studs. The quality of the 58' I tried was apparent and reflective of the three to four grand tag. Also tried an lp traditional and a standard to compare them to the Studio I have. I'll admit I love the worn cherry finish on the Studio, but there was a bit of fret buzz that had to be set up and there's some hum coming from the electronics ... I tried to see if the 58' w/bees hummed as much as my Studio, then it would just be the way that the guitar was wired. It wasn't as pronounced but it was there at higher amp volume.

I think I may go for a bone nut on the Studio to complete the 50'ish vintage package, 50's neck profile, PAF BB pros, 50's wiring upgrade w/Luxe bee's and treble bleed and CTS pots. Other than looks, like the Studio doesn't have the highest grade wood or the binding, the Studio is basically a stripped down standard and worth upgrading. Aesthetics don't affect the tone or playabilty of the guitar.