ES175 Strap button location

[Flagsmasher]

Having just acquired the guitar of my dreams, (2001 ES175D) I have a quandry: where to mount a strap button so I can stand up and play.

having done some research, the consensus seems to be on the "heel" of the neck where it joins the body as opposed to actually through the body (which I would never consider as a matter of course).

 

My concern is that if I do mount a strap button on the heel of the guitar, when it lays dowm in the case, it will put pressure on the button as the guitar will be lying on it.

 

I am loathe to start drilling holes in a very expensive guitar, so any real life and practical experience would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[jdgm]

I have the same thing exactly to do, having bought a new 175 in July. Fortunately there is a pad in the case which raises the back of the guitar a little. I think this is intended to remove any possibility of neck strain as it rests in the case but also it looks like a strap button at the back of the heel will just clear this pad. So you need a shallow wedge-shaped foam, cloth or sponge pad just slightly deeper than a strap button in the case for the guitar to rest on. If that means the case won't close safely with the guitar in it then...new case too I'm afraid.

 

Alternatively there is the T-Bone Walker 'cord round the headstock' solution or you could solve the problem like this guy - see last pic in his ad;

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/350877021641?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

 

Regards!

[dponzi]

I have a 76' ES175. I installed a strap button on it in 1978, smack dab in the middle of the heel, parallel to the neck. I will try and post a pic later. Its held up fine for all these years. If you're going to do it yourself, just make sure you drill a pilot hole.

[Jabberwocky]

http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0055.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=262

 

I suggest Position 4.

[Danny W.]

http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0055.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=262

 

I suggest Position 4.

I detest having a strap button anywhere on the neck and have rejected many guitars because former owners foolishly put one there. I personally would not put a button in either position 4 or 5

 

The few times I have done this to my own guitars, I put it in either position 2 (the center of the heel cap) or 3 (the shoulder), which keeps it completely out of the way of my left hand. I've never had a problem with the guitar tipping forward when using position 2.

 

In this photo I'm playing a Johnny Smith that has a button in the heel cap (position 2)(the photo is 43 years old--yikes!):

 

 

Here's my florentine L-5CES thin with a factory-installed button in the shoulder (position 3):

 

 

My real-world solution for all this is simple, though--when standing I play a semi and when seated I play an archtop without a strap, so except for the guitar in the photo, my archtops don't have buttons at the neck end. I have one older guitar that when I bought it had a strap button in position 4, but I removed it, filled the hole and retouched it. It's much better now <_<

 

Danny W.

[JimR56]

I agree with everything Danny said. I've removed several buttons from positions 4 and 5 over the years, and I've installed one or two in position 2 on guitars with no buttons. I'm a position 2 guy all the way. I like the way the strap just rests flat on your chest as it goes up toward the shoulder.

 

It's disturbing to me that that website is recommending position 4 to people. I guess people that never play with their hand up near the heel must see it as acceptable, but I do play up that high at times, and a button there makes absolutely no sense to me.

[L5Larry]

I agree with everything Danny said. I've removed several buttons from positions 4 and 5 over the years, and I've installed one or two in position 2 on guitars with no buttons. I'm a position 2 guy all the way. I like the way the strap just rests flat on your chest as it goes up toward the shoulder.

 

It's disturbing to me that that website is recommending position 4 to people. I guess people that never play with their hand up near the heel must see it as acceptable, but I do play up that high at times, and a button there makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

And I'll agree with EVERYTHING Danny AND Jim said. I guess us Archtop Guys are sticking together on this one. I would never install, or even consider buying an archtop guitar with, a strap button in positions 4 or 5 (or 1 or 3 for that matter).

[Jabberwocky]

Joe Pass had no issue with it. Good enough for Joe, good enough for me.

 

At least Danny was honest about it; he said that HE detested it. No absolutes there.

 

Find out what works for you, OP. The only strap buttons that are on my archtops were mounted by its previous owners and I only accept those mounted in Position 4 or Position 2. I would only accept Position 3 if it were factory-mounted, not that I like it but at least there is a block underneath the rim securing the screw. How different is Position 3 from Position 4 anyway that the former is acceptable but the latter isn't?

 

I would much rather not have a strap button if I can help it. I don't use Position 2 even if the archtop comes with a strap button mounted that way. I will remove it and let the hole be and not use a strap.

 

I don't see how Position 4 impedes the fretting hand in the higher positions. The body of the archtop does not fall away and your fretting hand is free to fret the notes instead of trying to hold the neck to stabilize the guitar at the same time. My experience with Position 2 is that an archtop of rim depth of 3" or more is more likely to fall away from you. Thinlines can get away with Position 2 like their semi-hollow counterparts; not much of a choice there as the heel is not deep enough for Position 4 anyway.

 

See how Joe Pass did it with his ES-175. Joe played it in the classical guitar position. Maybe Position 4 works best that way.

 

Position 5 is often found on Martin steel-string guitars with an inverted V-shaped heel. But I have seen a few archtops with the strap button in Position 5 or even lower, at the side of the heel. Probably belonged to some rockabillies. Position 1 makes a hole in the back and one is never quite sure whether the neck tenon is long enough. What happens if you miss the neck tenon? There is not much wood at the end of the neck tenon anyway for the screw to bite into usually.

 

Different strokes for different folks. "us Archtop Guys sticking together on this one" is just puerile immature talk.

[dponzi]

I was going to post a picture of where I put my strap button, but no need now. Mine is in position #4. I've never had a problem where its at. Its never got in the way for me.It only sticks out 3/8" past the heel. I hardly even notice it there.

[Danny W.]

Joe Pass had no issue with it. Good enough for Joe, good enough for me.

 

 

 

Wes Montgomery liked to tie his onto the headstock, but that doesn't make this a good suggestion for most players. I did this once with an L-4C because I had to do a gig standing up and I had never put a strap button on the guitar. This photo is 46 years old:

 

 

It's not something I'd recommend doing. My takeaway from this is just because two great guitar players did things a certain way doesn't mean that they're good ideas. Note that the Epi Joe Pass models have the button factory-installed on the shoulder (position #3)

 

 

I was going to post a picture of where I put my strap button, but no need now. Mine is in position #4. I've never had a problem where its at. Its never got in the way for me.It only sticks out 3/8" past the heel. I hardly even notice it there.

 

I agree that many guitar players are not bothered by the strap button in location #4, but at the same time many are. If you put a strap button there then that guitar loses a great deal of appeal to all the players, like me, who find it to be an obstruction. Better to put it in a place that has more general appeal.

 

Danny W.

[Flagsmasher]

Thanks for all the replies.....seems there's no definitive answer. I will think a while longer before drilling any hole at all in my lovely 175!

[Flagsmasher]

I finally plucked up the courage and drilled a pilot hole before adding the strap lock button in position 2, now i can play stood standing up! Yee hah!

[JimR56]

The only strap buttons that are on my archtops were mounted by its previous owners and I only accept those mounted in Position 4 or Position 2. I would only accept Position 3 if it were factory-mounted, not that I like it but at least there is a block underneath the rim securing the screw. How different is Position 3 from Position 4 anyway that the former is acceptable but the latter isn't?

If I'm going to play high on the neck, a button in position 4 is liable to poke my hand (base of the thumb area). Potentially uncomfortable, but at least that area is fleshy. Position 5 would be even worse, jabbing you more toward the inner palm. Position 3 does not interfere with the hand at all.

 

I don't see how Position 4 impedes the fretting hand in the higher positions.

I don't see how it doesn't, generally, although I can see how some things could still be played by avoiding it and providing the necessary finger pressure using different physics (although playing chord roots on the low E string would be more difficult as compared to playing single lines on the higher strings). I guess it's a matter of preference for some of us to get that leverage using the thumb against the heel.

[Danny W.]

I finally plucked up the courage and drilled a pilot hole before adding the strap lock button in position 2, now i can play stood standing up! Yee hah!

 

Glad it worked out and glad to have helped--you made a good choice.

 

Danny W.

[gibsonjunkie]

http://www.stewmac.com/tsarchive/ts0055.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=262

 

I suggest Position 4.

 

I prefer position 5. I've done all my acoustics that way and like it. I've been tempted to do my ES-335 as well.