80/20

[Mojorule]

Haha, well you're way ahead of me on experiment time !

String choice is such a fickle business.

I guess I'll have to try some various brands of 80/20's before I rule them out completely.

 

This time next week they might be the best sounding strings ever. How can anyone ever know that the day after they decided to change that they weren't going to become the best sound they ever had! Or maybe that was the day that we get used to the sound they are making. Impossible task ! :)

 

You know the answer, Gruntfuttle. Leave them on for 30 months and then see how they're doing. Go on, I dare you.

 

I have to say that my all-original 80/20s are different every day. On a good day (this evening), they sound plenty warm enough with the mahogany, but they still have a bit of cut at the top end. Never sure how much of the variation is in the strings or the wood(y). Of course putting any new strings on might just prove that I'm deluding myself about the tone my guitar puts out, and that 30-month-old strings just sound dull. I do wonder whether the mids might sing a bit more, or be a little less nasal if I put new strings on. But we'll see when we get to that point. On days like today, I love my aged 80/20s.

 

I also enjoyed Tom's input. Always good to have a bit of experimental science even in the areas where subjectivity rules. Do they ever shorten the name of your former establishment, Tom, as they do with MIT? Could be very appropriate for somebody with your collection (though the spelling would be rather unfortunate).

[tpbiii]

Do they ever shorten the name of your former establishment, Tom, as they do with MIT? Could be very appropriate for somebody with your collection (though the spelling would be rather unfortunate).

:lol:

 

There are lots of jokes about moving it to other places. Think about it.

 

Some people do call it GIT, but most -- actually everyone in the world - calls it Georgia Tech.

 

My degrees are all from MIT -- I am what you get when you over-educate a hillbilly. BTW, an international survey recently found MIT is the top University in the world -- ignoring the fact I suppose that it is not a University.

 

Take that Harvard!!

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

[Martin 1940D28]

You will have a long way to go, just to equal "The Massachusetts Institute of Technology" PERIOD DJ

[Mojorule]

:lol:

 

There are lots of jokes about moving it to other places. Think about it.

 

Some people do call it GIT, but most -- actually everyone in the world - calls it Georgia Tech.

 

My degrees are all from MIT -- I am what you get when you over-educate a hillbilly. BTW, an international survey recently found MIT is the top University in the world -- ignoring the fact I suppose that it is not a University.

 

Take that Harvard!!

 

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

 

I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about, unless you are thinking about moving it to Florida, which in British English would yield an appropriate moniker for a major relocation. I do know, however, that if you moved it to Colorado, the majority of male engineers (so the majority of engineers full stop) would not know where to find it. But then my bits of paper are all from an institution which ranks a full two places below MIT in the league whereof you speak, so I am a relative ignoramus. Still my scholarly home does have the advantage of having given its name to the town where both MIT and Harvard are situated, and of having educated Harvard himself. Age before beauty, and all that.

[Jerry K]

Well I've been playing over 40 years, and I even studied a lot of phonology at Berkeley and Yale. OK so I am not the greatest player but I STILL LIKE PB's!

Bwahahahaha...

[Mojorule]

Well I've been playing over 40 years, and I even studied a lot of phonology at Berkeley and Yale. OK so I am not the greatest player but I STILL LIKE PB's!

Bwahahahaha...

 

You also have a particular penchant for maple, Jerry. Perhaps that's a crucial factor in your string preference?

[Jerry K]

Something is probably wrong with me because I don't seem to 'get' 80/20. Not for lack of trying, either. Used them on and off over the years. I have dozens of packs of them lying around. Every once in a while I try them again, but so far I always prefer phosphor bronze, even on mahogany. I don't hate them. Truth is after I've been playing for 5 minutes I have no awareness of that anyway...

[Mojorule]

Something is probably wrong with me because I don't seem to 'get' 80/20. Not for lack of trying, either. Used them on and off over the years. I have dozens of packs of them lying around. Every once in a while I try them again, but so far I always prefer phosphor bronze, even on mahogany. I don't hate them. Truth is after I've been playing for 5 minutes I have no awareness of that anyway...

 

But is that because PBs really do have a mellower, or less cutting ring to them?

[tpbiii]

I'm afraid I don't know what you're talking about, unless you are thinking about moving it to Florida, which in British English would yield an appropriate moniker for a major relocation. I do know, however, that if you moved it to Colorado, the majority of male engineers (so the majority of engineers full stop) would not know where to find it. But then my bits of paper are all from an institution which ranks a full two places below MIT in the league whereof you speak, so I am a relative ignoramus. Still my scholarly home does have the advantage of having given its name to the town where both MIT and Harvard are situated, and of having educated Harvard himself. Age before beauty, and all that.

 

Local vendors have perhaps a much more realistic view of the output of such institutions. I recall a local food market where a sign read: 10 items or less. No exceptions for MIT students who can't read or Harvard students you can't count.

[Jerry K]

Phosphor bronze usually sounds warmer, richer, and sweeter to me. I'm sure there are guitars that just work great with 80/20 and I would be forced to admit it if I heard them. It's kinda subjective.

[blindboygrunt]

The longer the 80/20's are on the better they're sounding. They stay 'bright' . still not convinced that I'm simply forgetting what PBs sounded like . I can see why a bluegrass fella would prefer them as they have more life about them and we all know how loud you guys like to be ;)

 

 

I'm going back to PBs though. Partly because I have a drawer full of them and partly because I'm with jerry here that I prefer them. They may well need changed more often , but I find that's therapeutic.I'm also having to tune the 80/20's every 2 minutes although maybe dadarrio just aren't very good at 80/20's and I shouldve bought martin/newtons/pearse.

[blindboygrunt]

As an aside that ties in with Jerry's pole - is the reason that Gibsons ship with 80/20's because of the slightly more lifespan that the strings give? Or is there a company concensus that 80/20's do indeed sound better on their guitars?

 

My reason for trying 80/20's was of course a slight curiosity to try every and all combinations , but mainly because they ship with them on and there's a lot of people who want to know what they use so they can replace them with their first string change. I'm wondering now why PB's are leading this pole and yet lots of interest in the same strings the new guitars have on them. Logic would say that there should be more posts saying that the new guitars strings aren't quite right .

[EuroAussie]

As an aside that ties in with Jerry's pole - is the reason that Gibsons ship with 80/20's because of the slightly more lifespan that the strings give? Or is there a company concensus that 80/20's do indeed sound better on their guitars?

 

My reason for trying 80/20's was of course a slight curiosity to try every and all combinations , but mainly because they ship with them on and there's a lot of people who want to know what they use so they can replace them with their first string change. I'm wondering now why PB's are leading this pole and yet lots of interest in the same strings the new guitars have on them. Logic would say that there should be more posts saying that the new guitars strings aren't quite right .

 

I have to admit Im really stumped why Gibson uses 80/20's on their guitars, at least their mahogany guitars. I remember 80/20's castrated by HB TV when it arrived like that. I really dont get it, or at least my ears dont get it. I reckon 80/20's are more of an acquired taste, while PB's are more 'mainstream' which one would imagine would be the better choice when stringing stock guitars for first time when you dont know who will receive the guitar or what their playing style is.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

Man you guys are string crazy....... all strung out

 

I do have a preference for 80/20's... PB's sound too muddy to me.. but it depends on how you wanna sound and your technique..no?

 

I appriciat Tom's posts and the research and experience therein .... but I would be amazed if many people could tell you what strings a particular guitarist is using... it is totally subjective the the actual player I believe..and the tone that player is trying to produce.

 

At the end of the day..I really don't care that much.....and I will usually only change strings when they start to develop wear spots on them. Still sound good to me.

 

P/B's 80/20's Silverback Stickle Rights...aint gonna make you sound any better than you are... just play the damn thing ;)

[Del Nilppeznaf]

So it seems the general consensus here is PB's are warmer than 80/20's... well this is how subjective that idea can be

 

here is a quote from Bert Jansch... whom would know a little about guitar in my opinion

 

"For strings I use Martin light gauge .011-.052 sets. I don't like phosphor bronze strings. They're too zingy. I'd rather have dull-sounding strings than bright ones. After a couple of gigs, strings start to sound much better as the treble response settles down a bit."

 

so there ya go... he thinks they are too bright..go figure !

 

EDIT

 

the general concensus..but just re-read one of Toms posts..and he describes PB's in almost the exact manner as Bert... so there ya go :)

 

tpbii

 

"I guess the word for PB I would use is slightly fuzzy and sparkly"

[blindboygrunt]

I agree del. I was firstly wondering about the wavy pitch I seem to be getting. Then my pondering was about the posts by people desperate for the strings they were shipped with and yet the majority seem to be PB users here. I guess Jerry's pole will maybe poopoo my thoughts on that one. We'll see.

 

As you rightly point out though, its all in the individuals fingers. While I might be able to tell what I was playing , the listener might not have a clue.

[Mojorule]

To be honest, till I bought my Gibson, I'd never had a decent acoustic guitar, and I never really paid any attention to what I put on my beater. Not even gauge when I was busking/gigging a lot with it. Whatever was cheapest, really. And I only restrung when a string broke. I paid more attention to electric strings, because I had a better electric, but pretty well stuck with Ernie Ball 10s. Getting a Gibson electric with PRS 11s already installed changed my attitude to strings (the 11s sound really good at the top end and on the wound 3rd, and the PRS sets run 11-49, which gives them a lighter bass end than some other makers).

 

Now I have a quality acoustic I'm much more interested in what I should put on it. But I still effectively leave strings on until they break or go dead. Every time I play the Woody and it sounds a bit dull, I think about changing strings only for the guitar to sound great the next day. Why change what sounds good? The response doesn't seem to vary in a linear way, with the sound simply getting duller the longer the strings are on. Clearly over time there has been an overall mellowing/dulling, especially in the bass and mids, but in periods of intensive play the bass and mids will strengthen again even now. On its least enjoyable days the guitar sounds a bit brash and bright, but mainly because the trebles are stronger. That's when I wonder what putting new strings on would do for the bass. On its best days, the guitar is still loud, balanced and with plenty of mids and bass thump. I feel as though the wood and its response to humidity and other atmospheric factors is playing a greater role in tone at the moment.

 

In provincial Hungary it was hard enough getting strings of the gauge you want, let alone of the particular alloy you like best. And mail order to Hungary is expensive. My next set will be 85/15s, because I liked the sound of my SJ when it came, and I have liked it since, but when I needed a new 1st string, 85/15s were the nearest 12-gauge set available to the 80/20s which were and with the one exception still are on the guitar.

 

What I'm interested in is whether, subjective preference aside, it is really possible to identify a mellower sound with PBs (especially in combination with mahogany), and if so whether that simply means a stronger bass and mid response. Or does it mean that PBs are generally less forceful/cutting/brash, and move the air and wood differently? When BBG notes brighter response from 80/20s as they get older, is that simply fading of the bass and mids, or does the brightness come across in those registers? And what is the reality about longevity? In this thread and elsewhere, I've now heard posts which extol PBs as longer lived (what I'd understood to be theoretically the case), and posts which say that 80/20s last longer (don't go by my experience - I clearly have body chemistry which 80/20s like). What is the accepted wisdom on these matters?

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I agree del. I was firstly wondering about the wavy pitch I seem to be getting. Then my pondering was about the posts by people desperate for the strings they were shipped with and yet the majority seem to be PB users here. I guess Jerry's pole will maybe poopoo my thoughts on that one. We'll see.

 

As you rightly point out though, its all in the individuals fingers. While I might be able to tell what I was playing , the listener might not have a clue.

 

Yea..there is at least one post a month asking

 

What strings to Gibso0ns ship with..

 

haha

[EuroAussie]

I know our ears are different and subjective, but for the life of me I just cant imagine how anyone could hear PB's s being brighter than 80/20 .. ? :blink:

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I know our ears are different and subjective, but for the life of me I just cant imagine how anyone could hear PB's s being brighter than 80/20 .. ? :blink:

 

Listen to me saying i don't care..ha !

 

I hear ya EA... but |i don't think Bert or Tom for that matter ..are necessarily saying PB's are Brighter

 

Zingy and Fuzzy...are there subjective words...muddy is what i and others would say..which I think Fuzzy..maybe a better term. I think with 80/20's you get more separation from each string tone.

[EuroAussie]

Listen to me saying i don't care..ha !

 

I hear ya EA... but |i don't think Bert or Tom for that matter ..are necessarily saying PB's are Brighter

 

Zingy and Fuzzy...are there subjective words...muddy is what i and others would say..which I think Fuzzy..maybe a better term. I think with 80/20's you get more separation from each string tone.

 

You definitely get more note seperation with 80/20's ... coz theyre brighter. PB's I found hopeless on rosewood for example, where they really get very muddy, my old Songwriter was a good example where the wall of mud and overtones was just a big turnoff. But for example my LG-2 loves old PB strings, I think its just used to it after 70 odd years, and generally I find that I need to change PB's quite regularly before they get a bit too mellow, even on mahogany guitars. For example I find the HB TV really, really loves fresh PB strings, when they were out it gets a bit muddy with all that nectar, but then with 80/20's it sounds thing and lifeless.

 

Its all about experimentation, hence why so many of us are obsessed about strings .... makes us sound better when we lack the chops ... ;-)

[Del Nilppeznaf]

 

 

Its all about experimentation, hence why so many of us are obsessed about strings .... makes us sound better when we lack the chops ... ;-)

 

heh heh

 

heres another couple of quotes from John Renbourn..another well know acoustic/folk player

 

". For quite a while, I used a Sunrise in combination with nickel strings - which sounded cleaner to me. In fact, I preferred the sound of nickel to bronze, acoustically, as they seemed to have a little more definition. The bronze may have been a bit louder, but they were also a bit 'boomier' and the nickel certainly gained in balance and clarity in the bass higher up the fingerboard. "

 

" The nickel strings that I used for years were a custom set of D'Addario round wounds which were really consistent, tightly wound and smooth under the fingers - good strings! I guess that the D'Addario family have been leading the field for at least three generations and they produce an exceptional range."

 

" In my search for the clearest set of bronze strings, I tried some old Rotosounds in black and red packets that I had somehow managed to hang on to for years. They sounded really good, bright and well balanced but with a rich tone."

 

he had to revert to bronze because his pick up system changed

 

It seems pro's and people with a lot of experience playing live..prefer 80/20's ?

[EuroAussie]

 

 

It seems pro's and people with a lot of experience playing live..prefer 80/20's ?

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Stuff em, Im definitely going with PB's plugged in, 80/20's are just too bright and glassy for the plugged in version. I dont care what the pros use, I reckon our plugged in tone rocks and its with PB's ... plus a few bit n' bobs.

[Joe M]

My head's starting to hurt......

[Pepperland]

heh heh

 

heres another couple of quotes from John Renbourn..another well know acoustic/folk player

 

". For quite a while, I used a Sunrise in combination with nickel strings - which sounded cleaner to me. In fact, I preferred the sound of nickel to bronze, acoustically, as they seemed to have a little more definition. The bronze may have been a bit louder, but they were also a bit 'boomier' and the nickel certainly gained in balance and clarity in the bass higher up the fingerboard. "

 

" The nickel strings that I used for years were a custom set of D'Addario round wounds which were really consistent, tightly wound and smooth under the fingers - good strings! I guess that the D'Addario family have been leading the field for at least three generations and they produce an exceptional range."

 

" In my search for the clearest set of bronze strings, I tried some old Rotosounds in black and red packets that I had somehow managed to hang on to for years. They sounded really good, bright and well balanced but with a rich tone."

 

he had to revert to bronze because his pick up system changed

 

It seems pro's and people with a lot of experience playing live..prefer 80/20's ?

 

I think you're making too much of your findings. Yes, it's 100%, 2 for 2 but the pool is too small

to draw a conclusion that ALL pro's use 80/20's

 

I can use a thin V-Pick and make my PB strings sound bright and thin just like 80/20's sound

using a thicker pick. It's just ridiculous to say that "inexperienced players" prefer PB strings,

which is what Tpbiii said earlier in this discussion.

I'm 100% sure that there are PLENTY of pro's and experienced players using PB strings.