a humidity question

[ParlourMan]

Isn't it interesting how this is turning into a disagreement between older people who have managed to crack a few guitars and young folk who have yet to? Someday they'll believe.

 

Not really seeing it that way... but I do take the point you're trying to make. I think we're in the murky waters of clarifying 'instead of terrifying when it comes to good care. Surely you must concede that some of what we read is just plain madness!

[blindboygrunt]

Also people who do their own saddle adjustments understand about that guy in Atlanta. People who don't have trouble believing that could happen.

 

What are you talking about saddles for ?

 

Why you're even commenting in this thread that you havent read properly is beyond me . maybe youre one of those people who gets a kick out of stirring things up .

[Aster1]

[snip]

You're still missing the point of my question. I have no argument that humidity effects wood. Of course it does. I dont need to study .

I'm wondering why the musicians dont seem to bother about it. When surely a professional musician needs his guitar to be in a better playable shape than some guy in his bedroom .

 

I understand what you're saying BB. Since many pros view these guitars as "tools" or a vehicle to an end(not all obviously, look at James Taylor). As PM points out, tools are used and sometimes "USED UP" in the process depending on the care or attention. "If it breaks I'll just buy a new one" is the modern mantra IMHO. I've watched people in the construction trade (we do technology/entertainment stuff and work around them) drag $400 Sawzall's around by their cords over rough concrete (always wonder if it is their tool or the bosses?) and others like me that have tools for 20 yrs and they work/look nearly new even with HEAVY use. Have many of our guys that have no respect for their or MY tools and don't understand why I won't let them use them. I work with gear that is anywhere from a $10 hand tool to $30K worth of audio/video calibration equipment. Doesn't matter to me, they are all taken care of.

 

I guess it just boils down to how someone cares for their stuff. Do they take care of the leather couch, carpets, cars, house, yard etc. or just not that interested. I would NEVER put a plastic wrap on my leather couch or car seats (like I remember in the 60's ) but I won't be careless with them either. Again, just different folks and what they have a tolerance for replacing IMHO. I do play ALL my gits, but they ARE NOT TOOLS to or for me. Again, if they were I'd be more of the James Taylor care giver (at least in his older age, don't know about the young buck days).

[Jeremy Morton]

This thread is doing nothing for the health of instruments.

[j45nick]

It's pretty easy to control humidity in the home or studio, less so on the road unless you're a star with the support infrastructure to do it.

 

I toured with a group back in 1970-'71, and we did it the hard way: thousands of miles on the road in an extended Ford van, lugging three guitars ('48 J-45, mid-60's 'Bird and D-18 or D-28), two keyboards, speakers, cables, amps, mixing board, and suitcases full of stage clothes and daily clothes. Oh yeah, and three guys and a gal who bickered constantly and were crammed into the remaining space.

 

We toured the Midwest in the dry frigid dead of winter and the scorching, soggy days of summer, as well as New York and environs year 'round. The only climate control we had was the heater in the van, and 4-60 air conditioning (for those that remember that phrase).

 

We cared for our guitars by leaving them in their cases when they weren't in use, and not leaving them in the vehicle except when we were actually driving. We re-tuned constantly, and understood the general relationship between the weather and the state of our instruments, but had neither the resources nor the knowledge to mitigate things. To us, some days the guitars sounded good, other days less so. Sort of like the group itself. Fortunately, we could not obsess about what we did not fully understand.

 

My old J-45 has had a difficult life when it comes to weather, which no doubt contributed to lacquer checking and some braces coming loose over the years.

 

Knowing what I know now, I would not consciously mistreat a guitar that way today, but I don't obsess about it.

 

Certainly drying out and cracking is a big deal, and I would humidify a guitar (within reason) if I lived in an excessively dry climate. I never leave my guitars out of their cases when I'm not playing, and they seem to do fine in a climate where the humidity varies from about 45% to 75% when the air conditioning is not on. If I lived in a place where the humidity regularly dropped below 40%, I would be more concerned, and would do something about it. I would be more likely to use a whole-room approach, as tending individually to a dozen or so cranky guitars would not be much fun.

 

I wonder how Tom Barnwell, with his staggering collection of priceless vintage instruments, deals with this? That would be a man worth listening to.

[ParlourMan]

Some good responses and some awkward 'tumbleweed' ones too.... but I think not so many have actually tackled BBGs question... my understanding of the question is:

 

While we see so many folk chat about humidity, humidifying and dehumidifying guitars on here, why among the actual professionals is not an absolute standard given they will be more affected by the rigours and excesses than the home guitarist when his/her guitars will not suffer the same exposure and extreme variances?

[blindboygrunt]

This thread is doing nothing for the health of instruments.

 

 

What harm is it doing?

 

 

Nick , thanks. Your story is more in keeping with the original point. I guess like Jerry's d18 story It was lack of knowledge . but these days ? Maybe it's just like aster says . some care and some don't regardless how important the item is.

Cheers guys

[Jerry K]

Has it ever occurred to you that sometimes putting the question the wrong way makes it impossible to get to the answer you really need? Your question has a huge assumption: pros don't bother to humidify. How do you know that? Jackson Browne humidifies. I would submit that in 2014 anybody who knows guitars well takes humidity into consideration if they are gigging. You keep asking, if that fellow in Atlanta has a guitar that doesn't buzz at 56% but does buzz at 49%, how can the pros travel around and play? I keep trying to tell you, 49% RH is normal, center of the range. If a guitar buzzes at 49%, the action is simply too low. If you are a rock star and can hire somebody to adjust the action at each venue just before you go on, I guess it's possible to support such low action. For the rest of us mortals that's too damn low. We non-royals have to set the action high enough to accommodate a range of humidity conditions. If you ever get into adjusting saddle height you will become intimately familiar with that one RCH of difference in saddle height that allows slight humidity variations to cause a buzz.

[blindboygrunt]

The question was , do pros choose to humidify.

Maybe it wasn't clear enough. I was however , extremely clear that I wasnt arguing against the act of humidifying.

 

I know Jackson Browne would humidify because he has some fine examples. I did use neil young , willy nelson as examples of that ilk. Jackson browne is a great example i could've also used.

 

I was thinking more the session guy hired for a tour (a working musician) rather than the bigwigs who are of another planet.

 

Jt mentioned that jack Johnson had to crack a guitar before he humified. That was what didnt sit in my mind. How would a guy get to his level not be advised , or have the knowledge himself , that putting guitars in aeroplane holds and bus storage might not be good for my guitar.

 

I'm amazed that this knowledge , proven by many examples here ,amongst a bunch of amateur players , hasnt reached the people who earn a crust from guitars.

[Jerry K]

Let's be honest, you had no question at all. You were grinding an axe, something to the effect that humidification is overblown and mostly unnecessary, the 'fact' that pros don't do it 'proves' it's not necessary, people baby their instruments too much, yada yada. This was the thrust of all your posts, admit it. The one other wrinkle is apparently you feel aggrieved because you bought some sort of humidification equipment upon reading about other people doing it, and possibly further you over humidified your instrument. The part you appear to have missed is the process has two steps: 1 observe conditions 2 apply solutions if needed. You forgot step 1. If you do the observation you can avoid wrong solutions.

[blindboygrunt]

Yeah , you got it . go and give yourself a treat

[bobouz]

This thread is doing nothing for the health of instruments.

Maybe it would be more productive if people shared helpful tips gleaned over time.

 

Here's one:

 

Even if you live in an area with fairly even keel humidity, as I do on the north Oregon coast, be cautious about storing your instruments in small closed off rooms with zone heaters. An electric zone heater can change room conditions pretty drastically, especially in the winter as the temp drops & the heater runs on and off frequently.

 

I do not humidify, storing my instruments in a room without a heater, but open to the rest of the house. Generally I keep the house temp at 68 degrees, and this seems to work quite well, even through the winter's occasional cold & dry spells where outside temps might dip into the 20s or teens.

[Fullmental Alpinist]

The way some pros treat their guitars makes me wonder what are the terms of the contract they have with a particular guitar maker? I mean, do they have an unlimited supply of Brand X guitars underneath the bus so they don't care how they treat them, they'll just grab another one when they need it?

 

Does the manufacturer build them one robust guitar for touring (like a Hummingbird Modern Classic) and another more delicate one for home/studio (Hummingbird TV)?

 

I saw Keith Urban on a TV show and he pulled out this Maton guitar and started to play.

 

Now, Keith's not a very bulky guy, but even so the guitar looked like it weighed nothing--like it was made of paper mache. So is this an example of a "hotrodded" guitar designed for a couple of shows and then expected to implode but who cares?

[Drog]

There is a reason why top players bring along a guitar tech. All of the environmental changes can wreak havoc on instruments. Keep them more constant and consistent as far a humidity and you will have less adjusting needed.