a humidity question

[Murph]

There are people with a draw full of $50 plectrums that can't play.

 

I wasn't gonna bring that up.......

[Aster1]

Of course everyone can & should do what they want to do as they own the guitar. I know from testing, listening, & playing my stable that dry is bad, wet is bad. Middle of the road is GOOD. The frets get sharp on the neck when too dry and the sound is more brittle with thin bass to me anyway. When wet, the bridge belly swells too high and the guitar sounds dead, when just right 45%-50% then all my gits ring nice, rich woody tone, projects nice & play nice. I'm not having to adjust the neck relief as much.

 

Again, for me anyway, I would NOT subject my body or furniture to a house @ 15% humidity. Hells bells, you can't even lather but a forth of your face to shave it w/o it going bone dry. Bad for your lungs & allows for bacteria/viruses to invade you body easier. Dry skin ain't fun to me either. Too wet and you grow dangerous molds too. Back to middle of the road, and all things are better. The house feels warmer too than when bone dry in the winter.

 

To each their own, I opt for 45%-50% year around in my home. Love dry air (WY, NM, or AZ) when it's really hot outside as it feels much more comfortable then to me. However, I wouldn't take the gits out into that to live their days that way.

[duluthdan]

I've learned my lesson. I have an old Alvarez that I got when I got married, so its 36 years old+. A few years ago I got a Martin D35 that received all my plying time, and the Alvarez sat in its case virtually untouched. When I curiously opened the case to give the guitar some strum I discovered that the neck had literally imploded into the body, severely cracking the upper bout on both sides of the neck, and the top. It vost me more to repair that guitar than my wife paid for it, but I had to have it repaired, just cuz. That was in Northern Minnesota where the humidity range swings quite a bit, but rarely sustained Rh below 30%. Now I live in the semi-arid Western Rocky Mountains, where the Rh is routinely in the single digits. I would kill to have 20%. I run an Essix humidifier in my guitar room and struggle to keep the Rh above 30%. My guitars all play "dry" and sound good all year round, but I am certain that if I did not pay attention to the humidification tasks, that they would soon all become firewood. So yes, "My name is Dan, and I'm a Humidaholic."

[slimt]

I had a top Sink in a 1/2 inch on a High End Taylor Jumbo 25 plus years ago.... I had a worm in the sound hole.. but it was not enough.. case was closed as well... all my other Gibsons and Martins are humidified with dampits and checked weekly.. I cant find a good luthier up in this neck of the woods that does proper work.. most here are to Glue happy... and make more of a mess .. so its just better to be safe than sorry.

[blindboygrunt]

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=324853

 

See ? See what all this humidifier talk does

[duluthdan]

"Worry, is the opiate of the masses" don't know who said it, but it sure does apply, to so many things.

[jedzep]

There's a lot of inexact science in dangling water soaked bags and such in guitar cases, not to mention small battery operated devices and sensors. Where exactly does the moisture congregate? Down by the endpin? In the top bracing? Then on top of that, maybe not so diligent keepers of all those tools become lazy, forgetful, or otherwise inconsistent? . Without a complete environment, say a room, that's kept stable, there must still be a lot of variation and exposure to fluctuation anyway. For me, I focus on how annoying it must be to always be dicking around with that stuff when you sit down to pick a tune, hoping it kept your instrument uniformly hydrated. When you pull it out of it's case, chances are you've then moved it into an area with different humidity readings. So then what? As you're playing is it beginning to take on the RH of the new space? Better hurry up and get it back in the case.

 

There I go...making more dopey uninformed observations that mislead guitar owners.

 

Evenings I answer calls for an area suicide hotline. You should hear the advice I give those guys.

[Jerry K]

There's a lot of inexact science in dangling water soaked bags and such in guitar cases, not to mention small battery operated devices and sensors. Where exactly does the moisture congregate? Down by the endpin? In the top bracing? Then on top of that, maybe not so diligent keepers of all those tools become lazy, forgetful, or otherwise inconsistent? . Without a complete environment, say a room, that's kept stable, there must still be a lot of variation and exposure to fluctuation anyway. For me, I focus on how annoying it must be to always be dicking around with that stuff when you sit down to pick a tune, hoping it kept your instrument uniformly hydrated. When you pull it out of it's case, chances are you've then moved it into an area with different humidity readings. So then what? As you're playing is it beginning to take on the RH of the new space? Better hurry up and get it back in the case.

 

There I go...making more dopey uninformed observations that mislead guitar owners.

 

Evenings I answer calls for an area suicide hotline. You should hear the advice I give those guys.

 

Inexact science? That would be somebody who generalizes from his personal experience to the entire world. If my guitars don't crack then everybody doing anything to maintain humidity levels for their guitar is wasting their time. That's not even science at all. It's a frog at the bottom of a well pontificating on the state of the world.

[jedzep]

Calm down Jerry. Sounds like you have a frog stuck somewhere that needs to be pulled out.

 

Your poor family!

 

I don't keep track of these things, guys. Is he a known jackoff here on the forum? ( You don't have to answer. )

[blindboygrunt]

Inexact science? That would be somebody who generalizes from his personal experience to the entire world. If my guitars don't crack then everybody doing anything to maintain humidity levels for their guitar is wasting their time. That's not even science at all. It's a frog at the bottom of a well pontificating on the state of the world.

 

There ARE a lot of people wasting their time though.

[ParlourMan]

Firstly, you know that story about when moses went up in to the mountains and bumped in to God doing a bit of stone masonry work? It always reminds me of the threads where Jerry is quoting Hogeye.

Your poor family!

 

You won't get to him you know, he'll just look down his nose at you….

 

There ARE a lot of people wasting their time though.

 

There's the crux, humidity control is perfectly acceptable and probably necessary for those living in areas where this is an issue. For a great many of us it's not an issue and one might argue somewhat successfully that they're loopers wasting their time caving in to OCD tendencies and filling their minds with stuff they read crafted by largely unsubstantiated strangers across the internet.

 

Lets be honest, we're talking about maintaining happy mediums here, if you're comfortable and not too dry or humid then a quick look over your guitar is going to confirm for you that it too is reasonably alright. It's not hard to google the indicators of being a tad too dry, or too humid and the reasonable minded owner acts accordingly without much drama.

 

Let's be brutally honest, for a great many of us who are not as affected by humidity issues as the extreme cases which would warrant 'some' of the care routines we hear about they're just avoiding a few facts:

 

1- A wee shift for a couple of days here and there is not going to render a modern manufactured guitar some dead relic that looks like it stared at the medusa too long.

2- Your guitar is not some cancer patient and you're most likely not an ICT nurse. If you are, you probably work shifts, not 24/7 while simultaneously posting procedures online and searching out other nurses so that you feel nursing was a good choice.

3 - Some people just can't get over they spent a couple of grand on something. They probably shouldn't buy more, it's like being yer own worst enemy.

4 - It makes you ponder if they are deeply frustrated then can't put wives in cases with a damp sponge to stop them drying out.

5 - The less necessary cases are more likely in deeper danger of in-case spillage or other humidifier-related accidents than they are of their guitar bursting open like some six-stringed suicide bomber due to a couple of days of iffy weather.

 

But… Each to their own an all that…. If it twists your nipples to keep guitars like some type of plant that is more delicate than a butterflies wings then charge ahead and have fun.

[Jerry K]

There is plenty of data about the proper humidity range for keeping guitars. Too dry and they'll crack and there can be brace issues. Too wet and the guitar swells up and deformation of the shape occurs (and there can be brace issues), and if kept up this can and does cause serious damage to the guitar. The proper humidity environment for a guitar is not a subject for debate. It's not a question where you can be in one camp or the other. There are objective facts here. It's not a matter of opinion. Extremes of humidity damage guitars made of solid wood, period. The peer review is in. There is no controversy about this. You can either choose to measure the humidity in the environments where you keep guitars and respond in the appropriate manner if the humidity is significantly out of range, or you can ignore it and take your chances. Or you can fail to do the science - as in take measurements yourself - and rush to condemn what other people are doing about measuring and responding to their environments: ie standard internet blowhardism.

[gov]

 

1- A wee shift for a couple of days here and there is not going to render a modern manufactured guitar some dead relic that looks like it stared at the medusa too long.

 

 

oh yeah??? look what happened to my 2013 martin that i didn't put back in it's case last week whilst i caught up with me mum on the blower:

 

:

[flatbaroque]

oh yeah??? look what happened to my 2013 martin that i didn't put back in it's case last week whilst i caught up with me mum on the blower:

 

:

!!!!!...are those D'Addario Extra extra extra extra lights you are using on that 'un Gov??

[Aster1]

I knew that would happen to someone here that didn't take good care of their git!!!

 

Heaven only knows what happened to the strings, in fact, I don't even want to know.

 

Still think there is science & a fair amount of study that goes into the humidity issue. Again, to each their own but I wouldn't recommend to someone that it doesn't matter to monitor your humidity. Have smelled many a nice guitar that was in too damp a climate w/o control and the mildew/musty/moldy smell of the wood & case could have been avoided. Again, just me.

 

Gibson Montana service dept. told me, even more so on the new shipped guitars, that allowing them to dry out too much will cause the grain of the wood to "record groove" and the nitro to shrink into the valleys. May not hurt anything unless really let go to dry (then chicken tracks possible) but IMHO it doesn't look that nice on an expensive guitar. Seen this on many new guitars and it isn't the wood or finish works fault.

[BluesKing777]

It is currently 110 degrees outside here at the moment!

 

 

Wow.

 

 

My air conditioning cuts it down, but the National steel body is about to get played and all wood bodies will stay in their cases until it cools down next week!

 

 

Humidity not the problem now.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[blindboygrunt]

Extremes . nothing much on earth that 'extremes' is good for. How much extremes does a guitar kept in the house see?

 

I've said before that I am not condemning the use of humidifiers , so those that do please stop being defensive about it.

 

If a guitar is bought as an investment , or a showpiece, then a glass case at the perfect humidity and temperature is 100% undoubtedly the place for it.

 

But , let's say I live in Tunisia , or the Gobi desert , doesn't matter . somewhere dry. Where my guitar is slowly dying unless I humidify it .

How long would my j45 last without humidifying ? A week ? Month?

 

 

Am I going to get anyone with first / second knowledge of actual musicians who tour with a humidifier ?

 

All I'm trying to do here is get a broad slice of knowledge. I love my guitar. I dont want it to fall apart.

But I am starting to think there are players on forums who'd be happier with tropical fish .

[Jerry K]

Extremes . nothing much on earth that 'extremes' is good for. How much extremes does a guitar kept in the house see?

 

I've said before that I am not condemning the use of humidifiers , so those that do please stop being defensive about it.

 

If a guitar is bought as an investment , or a showpiece, then a glass case at the perfect humidity and temperature is 100% undoubtedly the place for it.

 

But , let's say I live in Tunisia , or the Gobi desert , doesn't matter . somewhere dry. Where my guitar is slowly dying unless I humidify it .

How long would my j45 last without humidifying ? A week ? Month?

 

 

Am I going to get anyone with first / second knowledge of actual musicians who tour with a humidifier ?

 

All I'm trying to do here is get a broad slice of knowledge. I love my guitar. I dont want it to fall apart.

But I am starting to think there are players on forums who'd be happier with tropical fish .

 

This is stupid. The question has been answered multiple times. Suppose you go live in Tunisia. What happens next? You measure the humidity with your handy dandy hygrometer that you brought with you. You have another one you keep in the case. You look up a chart on the internet about acceptable levels and consider your current situation and weather forecast for the next few days. If it's too forking dry, humidify. If it's too wet, put it in the case with those thingies that absorb moisture. What is so hard to grasp about this concept?

 

Let me give you an example of what not to do. In 1970 I bought a new Martin D-18. I knew absolutely nothing about humidity issues. I traveled all over the states with this guitar, kept it in heated rooms in the northeast that were far too dry, took it to Taiwan for 8 years and gigged extensively with it, flew numerous other places with it in airplane holds, yatta yatta. Needless to say I never humidified and never measured humidity. By the end of 20 years the guitar had numerous, serious cracks, not to mention finish damage and loose braces. It cost more to repair it than to buy a new D-18. The fret-wear, checking, dings and dents were inevitable. Most of the cracking probably could have been avoided had I invested a modest amount of effort to maintain humidity.

[blindboygrunt]

Thanks jerry . thats proper info.

Only thing is , if I spent 20 years travelling and gigging with a guitar airplane holds , dry heater hotel rooms , etc I'd expect it to look a bit rough.

 

If yours endured all that crazy life on the road, albeit needing a few repairs , then the one on the stand in a modern living room surely doesnt need worried about like a first born.

[blindboygrunt]

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325125

[Jerry K]

 

If yours endured all that crazy life on the road, albeit needing a few repairs , then the one on the stand in a modern living room surely doesnt need worried about like a first born.

 

Who said it needed worrying about like a newborn? You appear to be arguing against a position nobody here is taking. Everyone here has spoken of very reasonable, non-obsessive measures. What someone else does about humidity has no meaning or significance to you. Don't concern yourself about it. It's a local problem. In Oakland I can get away with ignoring humidity for the most part. Other places I have lived humidification was required in winter. My guitar got far too wet in tropical Taiwan and there was damage from that. All you need to know is what are the conditions where your guitars live? You keep asking for some sort of general advice like do I need to pay attention to humidity. There is no one answer to that question. It depends on the local conditions where your guitar goes. If you are going to do extensive flying and you don't have a very fine case, you need to humidify unless you don't care about cracks.

[blindboygrunt]

Who said it needed worrying about like a newborn? You appear to be arguing against a position nobody here is taking. Everyone here has spoken of very reasonable, non-obsessive measures. What someone else does about humidity has no meaning or significance to you. Don't concern yourself about it. It's a local problem. In Oakland I can get away with ignoring humidity for the most part. Other places I have lived humidification was required in winter. My guitar got far too wet in tropical Taiwan and there was damage from that. All you need to know is what are the conditions where your guitars live? You keep asking for some sort of general advice like do I need to pay attention to humidity. There is no one answer to that question. It depends on the local conditions where your guitar goes. If you are going to do extensive flying and you don't have a very fine case, you need to humidify unless you don't care about cracks.

 

 

My original question was how common humidifying guitars was amongst the professional musicians , travelling the world , climate to climate locations was.

Jt Seemed to understand what I was getting at . your trips to Taiwan etc gives some insight. On your part then hindsight kicks in and you now realise you shouldve brought more protection.

Youre right , and my particular location doesnt need to worry about humidity , or at least not lack of it. But I'm still curious about what goes on.

You say 'you need to humidify unless you dont care about cracks' . I do understand. How come no one told jack johnson? Are sponges in a a plastic bag a big secret among forums ? Is jack Johnson in the minority amongst his kind ? How come no one said 'hey jack you need a humidifier in that case or your guitars gonna fall apart'?

[ParlourMan]

My original question was how common humidifying guitars was amongst the professional musicians , travelling the world , climate to climate locations was.

 

 

I'd say far far fewer than the care-enthusiasts would like. Going back to the 'best kept secret' ethos, I don't think it's that either….

I would also say that I agree a guitar kept in a home, a home that's kept in reasonable condition will never see the extremes we often see talked about to document the pictures that get used. We always see pics of guitars that look like they were used as planters for 40 years as an example of what will happen unless you administer 24/7 care with humidity control devices. In places of wild extremes you will be more affected, that stands to reason, but all the phasing about we see in more stable climates/homes….

 

Getting down to the nitty gritty, these kind of things attract a certain type and it may make them feel more pro or something…. Whatever bakes their noodle!

[Jerry K]

You know you have a low setup when...

At 49% humidity the high E string starts buzzing here and there. I had to add another sponge in the case.

 

Normally my guitars stay at 54-55%. Atlanta can be a bit humid.

 

BBG you posted a link to the above on AGF. I am guessing you consider this to be unwarranted neurotic obsession about humidity. Wrong! What he said makes perfect sense. If you normally keep a guitar at 55% and have it set up with extremely low action, when you take it to a place with 49% humidity there is a good likelihood it will buzz. The top of your guitar is like a thin membrane made of a material that swells and expands when it absorbs water. Since it is bound to other pieces of wood around its edges there is no place for the top to expand but to bulge upward in the center. Move it to a dryer place and the bulge subsides. A nice solid wood top is itself a hygrometer. It would be possible to build a fairly accurate hygrometer utilizing action changes on a guitar top.

[Jeremy Morton]

If anyone wants their guitar to be in the best possible playing condition the humidity should be maintained.

 

I see so many guitars each year that the action is buzzing but it was not before or the action is so high but 3 months ago it was fine. Humidity causes these changes. If a guitar is at 40% humidity for 8 months and a weather system comes in with unusually high humidity 60-80% your guitar will be affected with the action going up. Everyone should be aware of humidity levels high or low so they can decide when to take care of the instrument properly. For those who do nothing, that is your choice. But a cold snap in the lets say New England for two weeks can definitely do damage to a guitar if steps are not taken.

 

I ask that everyone please be aware of what is going in regards to Humidity and temp. If there are big changes a little care could protect your investment.

 

All the best.

Jeremy