1982jcm Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Has anyone ever heard of counterfeit Epiphone Explorers? With some genuine Epiphones made in China I'm wondering if there are counterfeits floating around like the Chinese Les Pauls. I'm looking to buy an Epi Explorer in natural finish and found one, however, the headstock logo is placed different than most I've seen on that particular model and the hardware is a tarnished gold (although the guitar is brand new). The headstock logo is closer to the far right edge of the headstock than most photos I've seen. Obviously I'm concerned that the one I'm looking at might not be genuine. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mKwatra427 Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Explorer in natural? I like it already I find it hard to believe someone would try to make epiphone rather than Gibson copies, but I could be wrong... I dunno if you can upload pictures, but I suggest you compare it with as many epiphone explorers as you can find :P And finally, welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Welcome here, 1982jcm. There seem to be fakes of particular Epiphone models, especially limited ones. I don't know if Explorers are among them but can imagine that. I think one can't be careful enough. Many counterfeits bear serial numbers which apply indeed to the same model and finish so that the manufacturer's reply to an inquiry will suggest it's legit. Since retailers often provide serial numbers and finishes on their websites, the counterfeiters know what to do... :( I removed finishes and serial numbers from my signature to avoid such unwanted support for infringers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 and as always.....the only way to be SURE it's legit ? buy from an authorized dealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 mKwatra, we have seen many instances of fake epis here. Mostly Les Pauls, and I haven't heard of an Explorer fake. 1982jcm, welcome, and can you post pics? Or does it look like this, pic from epiphonewiki.com, and note on the black one the logo is way down the headstock: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 1982jcm, Welcome to the forum! we have seen many instances of fake epis here. Mostly Les Pauls, and I haven't heard of an Explorer fake. 1982jcm, welcome, and can you post pics? Or does it look like this, pic from epiphonewiki.com, and note on the black one the logo is way down the headstock: +1 on that! 1982jcm, If you look at the "Joined" date under Bender and Vomer's avatars you will see that some of the members have been around here for a while. Inquiries into fake Epis is so common (and wisely so) that some forums start permanent threads on them. As stated, pics (straight on, headstock front and back, serial numbers) can help. Check out the page that Vomer mentioned: http://epiphonewiki.com/index.php/Explorer Ask the seller if he has an original receipt from an authorized dealer. Aside from that.... What you are looking at could be a Korina as opposed to a natural. (notice the gold hardware in Vomer's pic) and the hardware is a tarnished gold (although the guitar is brand new). Just curious....How new is "brand new" and how do you know? Are you buying this from a friend? Keep us up to date, Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 Update....the first Explorer I posted about ended up being a gongshow that ended up with me receiving unwanted harassing/namecalling e-mails from the seller. I never mentioned a possible counterfeit at all but rather had legit concerns about the corrosion on the hardware, possible neck issues, etc. The deal obviously fell through however I found a MINT conditioned 2009 Korina Explorer that I was able to see in person. I picked it up for a great price. Only thing is that mine was made in China as opposed to a Korean-made model. The consensus seems to be 'buy Korean' but is there really THAT much difference in quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The consensus seems to be 'buy Korean' but is there really THAT much difference in quality? No. Do you like the guitar? There are duds and gems in basically every guitar manufacturer's line of products. I doubt you could tell the difference if you played a MIK and a MIC one back to back. Just my opinion. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 The consensus seems to be 'buy Korean' but is there really THAT much difference in quality? Thanks for the update, glad you found one. Here's something I posted yesterday, "I've seen a lot of ebay listings where It seems that second-hand sellers of Korean guitars are trying to talk them up as if they were the new Japan, since production expanded to elsewhere. "If it's older it must be better." It's really down to the individual guitar. I have a MIK Sheraton with some issues, some are great, some not so great. The thread 'Casino's made in Korea still?' has some comments about MIKs, both for and against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks for the update, glad you found one. Here's something I posted yesterday, "I've seen a lot of ebay listings where It seems that second-hand sellers of Korean guitars are trying to talk them up as if they were the new Japan, since production expanded to elsewhere. "If it's older it must be better." It's really down to the individual guitar. I have a MIK Sheraton with some issues, some are great, some not so great. The thread 'Casino's made in Korea still?' has some comments about MIKs, both for and against. I've also read so many different posts that the split is almost even. People have said that newer Chinese Epis are as good as the older Korean models but a common theme is that there really isn't a definitive answer. I have my eye on a 2009 Gibson Explorer at the moment. I might end up springing for that one and selling off the one I just bought. Decisions, decisions............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 10, 2014 Author Share Posted February 10, 2014 Another update, if anyone cares. I ended up winning the bid on the '09 Gibson so the Epi is up for sale if anyone's interested. I wish I could make my mind up.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 10, 2014 Share Posted February 10, 2014 If you go to the front page of the site you will see the Trading Post and you can place an ad for the Epiphone. But you need five posts so say something else here... hey 1982jcm, how do you like your new Gibson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 If you go to the front page of the site you will see the Trading Post and you can place an ad for the Epiphone. But you need five posts so say something else here... hey 1982jcm, how do you like your new Gibson? Haven't received it, should be in this week. Will post the ad for the Explorer on the TP page, thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well, here's an update to the Gibson I picked up........... Got it in yesterday, immediately noticed that its super clean EXCEPT for some very faint lines in the Nitro that run a few inches horizontally near the volume control knobs over to the pickguard edge. Thinking it possibly had been repaired and refinished I took it to a local GC and the tech told me that the finish has what are called 'checks' in the Nitro. These are usually caused by the guitar going from bitter cold to heat too rapidly. Looking at them from certain angles they're barely noticeable, however change the angle and they look like cracks in the actual wood. They are in the Nitro between the wood surface and the surface of the lacquer, kind of like a crack that doesn't completely break through to the outer surface. There is no way to repair them without completely refinishing the front of the guitar and chances are that eventually they'll crack completely through the surface of the lacquer. To refinish the front will cost $1050.00 from Gibson so unfortulately I have to return it to the seller. If it weren't for bad luck I'd have none at all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Well, here's an update to the Gibson I picked up........... Got it in yesterday, immediately noticed that its super clean EXCEPT for some very faint lines in the Nitro that run a few inches horizontally near the volume control knobs over to the pickguard edge. Thinking it possibly had been repaired and refinished I took it to a local GC and the tech told me that the finish has what are called 'checks' in the Nitro. These are usually caused by the guitar going from bitter cold to heat too rapidly. Looking at them from certain angles they're barely noticeable, however change the angle and they look like cracks in the actual wood. They are in the Nitro between the wood surface and the surface of the lacquer, kind of like a crack that doesn't completely break through to the outer surface. There is no way to repair them without completely refinishing the front of the guitar and chances are that eventually they'll crack completely through the surface of the lacquer. To refinish the front will cost $1050.00 from Gibson so unfortulately I have to return it to the seller. If it weren't for bad luck I'd have none at all..... Bummer that it came with laquer cracks you weren't expecting. But, many nitro guitars may develop these anyway. If they did work through to the surface a tech could re-seal them by putting a little nitro in them. If you like the guitar I wouldn't worry about them; some folk pay to have them 'reliced' in artificially! But if they bother you, they are going to continue to bother you and the guitar has to go back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Bummer that it came with laquer cracks you weren't expecting. But, many nitro guitars may develop these anyway. If they did work through to the surface a tech could re-seal them by putting a little nitro in them. If you like the guitar I wouldn't worry about them; some folk pay to have them 'reliced' in artificially! But if they bother you, they are going to continue to bother you and the guitar has to go back... It really is a shame, I don't think I'll find a cleaner one than the one I bought unless Gibson starts producting the natural finish models again and I get a brand new one. If I knew 100% that the checks wouldn't get worse I'd keep it as they're not noticeable from more than a few inches away. Do you know anything about nitro cracks and how they can be resealed? The tech at GC mentioned that there are solvents that actually kind of dissolve the nitro and reseal the cracks, is that what you referred to? I would think even so some wet sanding and refinishing would have to be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 The tech at GC mentioned that there are solvents that actually kind of dissolve the nitro and reseal the cracks, is that what you referred to? I would think even so some wet sanding and refinishing would have to be done? I haven't done one myself but apparently if you touch up nitro with nitro it dissolves the edges of the old to create a smoother join between the two. Yes, sanding and polishing would be done after any fill, which is relatively simple with some practice, although I wouldn't practise on a Gibson. As you describe your cracks being inside the finish I wouldn't consider a repair myself till they had worked through, if they ever do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Faint lines on a 5 year old guitar that are only noticeable a few inches away? With all the variability in Gibsons, if you like the way it plays and sounds I would keep it. I doubt the cracks will get worse if you keep it in a climate controlled home. On the other hand, if you don't, the same thing could happen on a brand new guitar after a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Faint lines on a 5 year old guitar that are only noticeable a few inches away? With all the variability in Gibsons, if you like the way it plays and sounds I would keep it. I doubt the cracks will get worse if you keep it in a climate controlled home. On the other hand, if you don't, the same thing could happen on a brand new guitar after a couple of years. I called two highly recommended luthiers that do a ton of refinishing work and both told me the same in that there is no remedy for the checks short of a complete refinish. They will likely continue to spread, like a windshield crack. If the guitar were older it wouldn't be an issue but the guitar is only 6 years old. For what I paid I don't want to have to worry about when they will get worse. I had an LP that had the same issue around the headstock binding that was about 1/4" long when I bought it. It eventually spread another 3" as it sat in my house over a couple of years. I just have to start searching again after this one goes back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 For what I paid I don't want to have to worry about when they will get worse. Then you've done the right thing. If it was going to be on your mind it takes away the enjoyment of the instrument. Here's to the next one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1982jcm Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 Then you've done the right thing. If it was going to be on your mind it takes away the enjoyment of the instrument. Here's to the next one . And here it is. Picked it up today. The search is OVER!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vomer Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 That didn't take long! Very nice . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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