Quailty of Guitars

[curnla]

First of all, I am a new member and this is my first post. I currently own a Gibson Les Paul Traditional, a custom shop Fender Stratocaster and two Epiphones (a Casino and as of a week ago a Wildcat). I have to say that the construction quality and playability of my two Epiphones are equal to or exceed my Fender and Gibson. The only issue with either Epi is the multi piece construction of necks on the Epis and the body of the Wildcat. But neither of these issues makes one iota of difference in my mind. In fact, the guitar that has exhibited the most construction flaws is the Gibson. The truly amazing thing is that I can buy five Epiphones for what I paid for the Les Paul Traditional. I simply can't get over how beautifully both Epiphones play. Since getting the Wildcat, I can't put it down. In setting it up, I have the lowest action of any of my guitars with absolutely no fret buzz! The Casino is simply flawless. I can't speak enough about Epiphone quality or the shoddy workmanship on the Gibson. Fortunately, the problems with the Gibson are only cosmetic and I was able to somewhat correct them. Still, when I pick up one of the Epiphones, I realize that I should have sent the Gibson back. My hat is off to Epiphone!

[1BADVETTE]

Most of my guitars come with rounded/flat top frets, not crowned. All my Fenders are either round or flat on the top from the factory, 2 of 3 LPs and all my semi-hollows.

 

That doesn't mean that particular LP isn't supposed to have crowned frets, I don't know, but it's not out of the question that it's supposed to have flat top frets.

I am a Machinist and Fabricator. I have been doing this type of work for 28 yrs. It is my opinion that flat frets will only give you fret buzz if the flats are wide enough. Think about it. The string contact point on the fret would be toward the head stock. The string could buzz on the flat part of the fret that is towards the bridge. A flat fret would have two points on it. One facing the head stock and one facing the bridge with the flat spot in the middle. I truly believe that if the flat is wide enough it will cause fret buzz on the lower frets. As you move up the neck to play a note or chord, the string angle increases between the fret and the bridge. In this situation the played notes or chords are less likely to buzz. Crowned frets are the way to go not flat.

[capmaster]

Most of my guitars come with rounded/flat top frets, not crowned. All my Fenders are either round or flat on the top from the factory, 2 of 3 LPs and all my semi-hollows.

 

That doesn't mean that particular LP isn't supposed to have crowned frets, I don't know, but it's not out of the question that it's supposed to have flat top frets.

This is interesting. All of my guitars and basses came with rounded or crowned frets. No flat ones so far. The frets of my 1970's Gibsons and my Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs are rather wide, low, and have a large radius, seem to be made in the "fretless wonder" image, but still are far from being flat. Never met a guitar with flat frets up to now.

 

I think they don't even make flat cutting tools for PLEK machines - what should be the use of such?

[rct]

This is interesting. My #1 has deliciously flat(tened) frets. It's about...18 years old, and could stand a refret but does not need one, not for me at least. I've flattened them nicely. No more string buzz than any other tele.

 

rct

[capmaster]

Finally got it now.

This is the Epi I modded. Push pull pots and new pickups. I also added different knobs. I didn't like the speed knobs on this build. I wanted an old school look.

...

I did it the other way round. Ease of pull operations without marring finish made me switch to speed knobs from any different one.

[capmaster]

Here are mine.

I hope this posted. Let me know if it doesn't.

Very nice and pretty instruments, mate, and nicely arranged, too!

 

Thanks. I have more but I just haven't had the time to finish my guitar room and place them all.

I prefer keeping mine in cases since these are lots easier to dust. I just use a vacuum cleaner with a brush nozzle. Have to clean the guitars regularly though. They always collect dust from skin and picks during playing, not to forget the remains of sweat. ;)

[1BADVETTE]

My favorites of my guitars are my Carvin CS6 and Yamaha LD-10 Acoustic. I purchased my Yamaha back in 1991. Brand new in the case and all hand made. The sound, the feel, and the playability are incredible. I have tried every other name brand acoustic out there and I still can't find one to play and sound like my Yamaha. My Carvin is just a fine tuned and well made instrument. Carvin's quality control department got it right. I can get any every sound I want out of this guitar. Everything from Tele twang to metal its all there. The tone knob has a coil splitting function for both neck and bridge pickups. They are both just guitars and I am lucky to have them.

[1BADVETTE]

This is my Camo Dipped Telecaster.

[milod]

Got to thinkin' on this one...

 

Most folks can't play my old Guild SG clone. It wears 8-38. Takes me a day of playing with it until I can - and then it's perfect.

 

m

[1BADVETTE]

Anyway, I just thought I would go ahead and post the pics of the Gibson LP Standard I returned.

In the above pics the fret board was dry so I conditioned it. At least this was done before I returned it. I wish it would have played without the fret buzz because I really wanted this guitar.

[Not-Too-Late]

Anyway, I just thought I would go ahead and post the pics of the Gibson LP Standard I returned.

In the above pics the fret board was dry so I conditioned it. At least this was done before I returned it. I wish it would have played without the fret buzz because I really wanted this guitar.

 

That is a beautiful looking LP. I don't get it really. What is going on at the Gibson factory? To purchase a Gibson, one has to pay a very high price for what one would consider exceptional quality, yet you have a fret board that buzzes that you say can't be remedied. A new member - borchster - stated he bought a Gibson LG with a missing pickguard screw, and on top of that they failed to drill out a hole for it. So, what is going on at Gibson? I'm sure these are rare situations, but rare or not they shouldn't happen, if those in quality control where doing their job right.

[1BADVETTE]

That is a beautiful looking LP. I don't get it really. What is going on at the Gibson factory? To purchase a Gibson, one has to pay a very high price for what one would consider exceptional quality, yet you have a fret board that buzzes that you say can't be remedied. A new member - borchster - stated he bought a Gibson LG with a missing pickguard screw, and on top of that they failed to drill out a hole for it. So, what is going on at Gibson? I'm sure these are rare situations, but rare or not they shouldn't happen, if those in quality control where doing their job right.

I guess the reason I posted all of this is so I could get people to expect these guitar companies to deliver a quality product. I am tired of guitar manufactures just pushing guitars out the door just to make a buck. Its not just the high priced guitars, its all guitars in all price ranges. No wonder China, Korea, and Indonesia is kicking the USA guitar companies butts. They put a little more effort into what they are building. Its a shame when I can buy a $200 Epiphone Special II and it has better fret work on it than the $3400 Gibson LP Standard I returned. We as customers should not have to finish the job these guitar companies should have done in the first place. I am not going to put up with it. I will return every guitar I purchase that has these type of problems. I'm tired of spending my hard earned cash on a product and not getting what I paid for...... WHOS WITH ME??? LET'S PROTEST!....(LMBO!) This is really all that I am saying.

[Ed Zeplin]

Anyway, I just thought I would go ahead and post the pics of the Gibson LP Standard I returned.

In the above pics the fret board was dry so I conditioned it. At least this was done before I returned it. I wish it would have played without the fret buzz because I really wanted this guitar.

 

That's a sharp looking guitar. Too bad it didn't work out for you. I had four Gibsons, three of which I still own and no quality issues whatsoever. What do you have hanging on your wall?

[Scott Marlowe]

I guess the reason I posted all of this is so I could get people to expect these guitar companies to deliver a quality product. I am tired of guitar manufactures just pushing guitars out the door just to make a buck. Its not just the high priced guitars, its all guitars in all price ranges. No wonder China, Korea, and Indonesia is kicking the USA guitar companies butts. They put a little more effort into what they are building. Its a shame when I can buy a $200 Epiphone Special II and it has better fret work on it than the $3400 Gibson LP Standard I returned. We as customers should not have to finish the job these guitar companies should have done in the first place. I am not going to put up with it. I will return every guitar I purchase that has these type of problems. I'm tired of spending my hard earned cash on a product and not getting what I paid for...... WHOS WITH ME??? LET'S PROTEST!....(LMBO!) This is really all that I am saying.

 

Thing is, when I pay $300 for an Epiphone and it needs a little work on the frets or a tusq nut, I don't feel bad, because I got it for $300, and the build quality is great. The wiring harness on my Epi SG is top notch quality, and the pots and pickups are great as well. The fact that three frets around 15 to 17 were a little high on the treble side wasn't a terrible issue, and was easily fixed.

 

But if I paid $3000 or more for a guitar, I expect butter smooth playability out of the box. Perfection, nothing less. If Gibson can't be bothered there are literally dozens of bespoke guitar makers out there who can make me that guitar for about the same price, and it WILL be perfect. And it will be a beautiful one of a kind masterpiece.

 

There are also top notch luthiers who can take your Epiphone or other budget guitar and upgrade everything on it to top quality parts and refinish the frets etc and you'll still spend way less than $3k.

 

So that's my advice. Take your money elsewhere. If Gibson can't make a perfect guitar for $3000 then they don't deserve your business.

[Ed Zeplin]

As far as setups and playability I have never found a guitar of any make that was setup to my liking the moment I picked it up. All have recieved some degree of tweaking, even in the store while trying it out I may lower or raise the action if possible and/or required

 

A factory setup most likely has tolerances wide enough that it is within their spec but not for each individual guitarist. The feel of a guitar is very personal and what works for me may not be to someone else's liking. I think that to expect every guitar to play to one's personal preferences out of the box is asking a little much, within reason.

 

This case sounds a little beyond those tolerances. That being said a guitar should be able to be setup with a little work.

[Scott Marlowe]

As far as setups and playability I have never found a guitar of any make that was setup to my liking the moment I picked it up. All have recieved some degree of tweaking, even in the store while trying it out I may lower or raise the action if possible and/or required

 

A factory setup most likely has tolerances wide enough that it is within their spec but not for each individual guitarist. The feel of a guitar is very personal and what works for me may not be to someone else's liking. I think that to expect every guitar to play to one's personal preferences out of the box is asking a little much, within reason.

 

This case sounds a little beyond those tolerances. That being said a guitar should be able to be setup with a little work.

 

Agree 100%. The difference between needing a few minor adjustments and needing a fret dressing or other major work is huge.

[Not-Too-Late]

Agree 100%. The difference between needing a few minor adjustments and needing a fret dressing or other major work is huge.

 

Yes, but major work on a new Gibby is not to be or shouldn't be expected. I have two Epi Les Paul's, and I have had both set up with a professional Luthier. Both play and feel awesome. But to have a Gibson unable to be set up is ridiculous. Gibson needs their hands slapped on this one.

[1BADVETTE]

That's a sharp looking guitar. Too bad it didn't work out for you. I had four Gibsons, three of which I still own and no quality issues whatsoever. What do you have hanging on your wall?

The guitars I have hanging on the wall are listed at the very bottom. Thanks.

[1BADVETTE]

Yes, but major work on a new Gibby is not to be or shouldn't be expected. I have two Epi Les Paul's, and I have had both set up with a professional Luthier. Both play and feel awesome. But to have a Gibson unable to be set up is ridiculous. Gibson needs their hands slapped on this one.

I just wanted what I paid for and Gibson didn't deliver on this guitar. A few minor adjustments and this guitar should have been playable but no matter how I set it up it just wouldn't quit buzzing on the first 5 frets. Anyway, if Gibson or any other guitar makers keep doing poor work like this, it won't be long before they get a bad reputation. What companies ignore are the customers who spend their money to keep their businesses going. Without us buying their product, they would not have a job very long. I will take a quality guitar over a quantity produced guitar any day of the week. Quality should always come first no matter what the item cost. If you have a satisfied customer they will keep coming back and also tell all their friends. If you have an unsatisfied customer they will also tell all their friends. Word of mouth can make or break a company.

[Not-Too-Late]

I just wanted what I paid for and Gibson didn't deliver on this guitar. A few minor adjustments and this guitar should have been playable but no matter how I set it up it just wouldn't quit buzzing on the first 5 frets. Anyway, if Gibson or any other guitar makers keep doing poor work like this, it won't be long before they get a bad reputation. What companies ignore are the customers who spend their money to keep their businesses going. Without us buying their product, they would not have a job very long. I will take a quality guitar over a quantity produced guitar any day of the week. Quality should always come first no matter what the item cost. If you have a satisfied customer they will keep coming back and also tell all their friends. If you have an unsatisfied customer they will also tell all their friends. Word of mouth can make or break a company.

 

I've always found that bad news travels faster than good news.

[Ed Zeplin]

The guitars I have hanging on the wall are listed at the very bottom. Thanks.

 

Ok. The mobile version doesn't show everything. Thanks.

[Ed Zeplin]

Yes, but major work on a new Gibby is not to be or shouldn't be expected. I have two Epi Les Paul's, and I have had both set up with a professional Luthier. Both play and feel awesome. But to have a Gibson unable to be set up is ridiculous. Gibson needs their hands slapped on this one.

 

Yes. Not acceptable.

[capmaster]

As far as setups and playability I have never found a guitar of any make that was setup to my liking the moment I picked it up. All have recieved some degree of tweaking, even in the store while trying it out I may lower or raise the action if possible and/or required

 

A factory setup most likely has tolerances wide enough that it is within their spec but not for each individual guitarist. The feel of a guitar is very personal and what works for me may not be to someone else's liking. I think that to expect every guitar to play to one's personal preferences out of the box is asking a little much, within reason.

 

This case sounds a little beyond those tolerances. That being said a guitar should be able to be setup with a little work.

Agree 100%. The difference between needing a few minor adjustments and needing a fret dressing or other major work is huge.

+++1

 

Yes, but major work on a new Gibby is not to be or shouldn't be expected. I have two Epi Les Paul's, and I have had both set up with a professional Luthier. Both play and feel awesome. But to have a Gibson unable to be set up is ridiculous. Gibson needs their hands slapped on this one.

There was nothing beyond setup on my Epiphone, but several Gibsons were in need of a new nut.

 

I've always found that bad news travels faster than good news.

Quite right, and the big guitar manufacturers should know that from the past I think. <_<

 

Yes. Not acceptable.

Indeed, not from whatever manufacturer and at whatever price point I think. Tone might be a matter of taste, lack of playability beyond setup definitely not.

 

As far as I read up to here, they could even have omitted the entire fret dressing process, and obviously didn't become aware of that during the quality check. What a bummer for such a beautiful guitar! :(

[1BADVETTE]

Ok. The mobile version doesn't show everything. Thanks.

I apologize, I didn't know you could not see that on your mobile. Here is the list below......

 

Squier Camo Dipped Telecaster, Squier Camo Dipped Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster Select, Fender Lone Star Stratocaster, Carvin CS6, Epiphone P90, Epiphone Special II, Schecter C1 Custom (not in pic), Fender Acoustic, Yamaha LD-10 Acoustic, and others.

 

Thanks.

[milod]

I'm half surprised one of the customer service guys hasn't glommed onto this one.

 

The past number of years I've seen more than a few folks join the forum, complain about an individual guitar and service, a whole batch of folks piles on, and... it fades away.

 

I guess it'd take a lot to get me to badmouth a company on the basis of a bad experience with one guitar...

 

I've had exceptional "luck" with Epis and I refuse to buy a guitar over $500 or so without playing it - with the type of strings and setup I expect to play. I did have a horridly mis-setup Epi AE guitar from Sweetwater that has an excellent reputation for checking guitars out of the box before sending them to a customer. It had problems with the neck that I didn't think adjustment would solve, sent it back and they sent another even before receiving my return.

 

So... the company I purchased from took care of me. I blame neither the Gibson company nor Sweetwater for the problem. Frankly I think it's a combination of major climate difference and a lot more moisture in the guitar when Sweetwater checked it than when I received it - which is something I also noticed several times at the guitar store I get to a couple times a year - some guitars off the truck end up with strings on frets due to our living in a quite dry and relatively high environment.

 

Both Sweetwater and the "local" (if far from me) store have good policies to keep customers happy. I am, at least. In fact, I've even done well with Musicians Friend on some purchases. I doubt that would be the case if Gibson didn't support those policies so the retailer doesn't lose...

 

.... m