DRC Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I will be swapping out the factory tuners on my J-35 with Gotoh SE510 chrome tuners and have a choice of buttons. I'm trying to decide between three... 05M (Oval-chrome) 06M (Butterbean-chrome) 5M (Oval-white) Here's a cool link where you can use an interactive application that shows the tuner with all the buttons, that when selected, appear on the tuner to show how it will look with each button. Click on "Image Simulator" in the gray box located to the right of the image of the tuner. Then at the top of the window that opens, click on "C Chrome" to activate. At the bottom of that window in "Button Option", select the 05M (first button), 06M (second button), and M5 (sixth button). http://www.g-gotoh.com/international/?btp_product=se510 I'm thinking of keeping the 'reissue look' of the white oval button, but am also considering the chrome oval or butterbean. I'm just not sure if the white oval button is actually more of an off-white which may not look right with the ultra white guitar binding, nut, and saddle. The reason for replacing the factory tuners is their stiff and tight operation...and can't be adjusted. I also like the open back look of the SE510 and I know they're excellent tuners. Let me know what button you'd like on the J-35. I know it's my final decision but just thought it would be fun to get your input. Thanks DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky1 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I kind of have a thing for tuners. Definately go with the white ovals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky1 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm thinking of changing the tuners on my J-15. I may use what you got there. I haven't reall decided yet, I like those Gotohs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You don't need a reason to replace tuners around here. The iconic white button with the open back is available from Stew Mac, too. You may want to consider those also; they have the same scalloped base plate as the closed-back tuners your guitar came with (?). This way there would be no footprint on the back of the headstock from other tuners. You'd want to make sure screw hole location is similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryp58 Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 You don't need a reason to replace tuners around here. The iconic white button with the open back is available from Stew Mac, too. You may want to consider those also; they have the same scalloped base plate as the closed-back tuners your guitar came with (?). This way there would be no footprint on the back of the headstock from other tuners. You'd want to make sure screw hole location is similar. [thumbup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAMELEYE Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 White! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yes, the Stew Mac Golden Age tuners were the first I looked at and in comparing the specs, appear to be pretty much a direct drop-in and will fit the same footprint as the factory scalloped-end tuners. However, in talking with Stew Mac the other day, the person I spoke with had one in his hand and said the buttons are VERY off-white (cream colored) and as I said, I'm afraid they'll look out of place with the bright white binding, nut, and saddle. Those tuners were designed for restoring older vintage guitars. I just checked with my Gotoh supplier and was told the white button on the SE510 is also an ivoroid off-white. Also, the Gotoh is about $35 more than the Golden Age. If I go with white buttons, I'd like them to match the rest of the guitar...binding, etc and if they won't, that's why I'm considering chrome buttons. Just thinking out loud here and thanks again for your input. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vacamartin Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Last year I had Gotoh in Japan change my tuner buttons on my order from the ivory Tulip to the Ivory oval. Best tuners ever! Took a long time to get made and shipped, but once it arrived there was no problem swapping them out from the old Rotomatics...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 As I posted in the other thread, I have the golden age off-white tuners on my 2008 J-50 and the color is not a whole lot different from the nut and binding. But I don't have a J-35, so maybe the nut and binding are a brighter white than the J-50? Also note that Stew Mac sells the buttons themselves separately and provides instructions for changing them. Sounded like more trouble than it would be worth though. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Tuner_parts/Vintage-style_Replacement_Tuner_Knobs.html Again, not familiar with the J-35, but if it has the same grovers as my J-50, you will need bushings to adapt to the 10mm diameter vintage style tuners. http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/3457?tab=Details And that raises another issue, because the Grovers have big washers around them and the bushings don't completely cover them. This left some very noticeable "rings" on my J-50 that I had to sand and polish out. Having never done anything like that before, it was a bit scary and took me awhile. But everything worked out well. The whole process took a lot longer than I expected, so be sure to allow plenty of time for the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarjtb Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar_with_Scallop-end.html These 3 on a plate tuners are very similar to the original 30's J-35 tuners. They come with the white buttons, and with a shiny or relic finish on the metal. That's what I would do, if I had a reissue J-35. On the Gotoh tuners, I would go with the white ovals, if you just want me to choose from those. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted May 30, 2014 Author Share Posted May 30, 2014 Thanks for the input, everyone. Boyd, after looking at your photos and others I've seen with the Golden Age tuners, I've decided to go ahead and order a set. Even if the buttons aren't truly white, after seeing your photos as well as others online, I don't think it will be a big deal. And considering they will be a direct drop-in with the same footprint as the factory tuners and ~$40 less than the Gotoh, the GAs are calling to me. I've done guitar repair for many years and have done many tuner swaps, most of which required some 'surgery' of one sort or another, so it's always nice to do a direct drop. :) Not long after buying my Wechter 000 12-fret slot head a couple years ago, I replaced the crappy Asian made tuners with Grover Statites and required a lot of surgery, including enlarging the holes and grinding down/shortening the tuning posts for the 1st and 6th strings so they'd fit correctly in the center portion of the headstock and not butt up against each other. Also recently replaced the Asian tuners on my Guild F-130R with Grover 102C which required a bit of surgery including hole enlargement and filling 6 of the screw holes (since the Grovers have only one screw mount), staining, finishing, etc. But it looks great and I love the Grovers. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR GIBS Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 White. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarjtb Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Thanks for the input, everyone. Boyd, after looking at your photos and others I've seen with the Golden Age tuners, I've decided to go ahead and order a set. Even if the buttons aren't truly white, after seeing your photos as well as others online, I don't think it will be a big deal. DC Great choice. I wish they made the same scalloped end tuners, in 3 on a plate, with the off white buttons. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar_with_Scallop-end.html These 3 on a plate tuners are very similar to the original 30's J-35 tuners. They come with the white buttons, and with a shiny or relic finish on the metal. That's what I would do, if I had a reissue J-35. I was going to use those on my J-50 initially, but wanted to be certain they would fit. So I took the image on their site, imported it into my CAD program, adjusted the size, printed it out and confirmed that the measurements were correct. When I placed it on the headstock, I discovered that it partially covered the Gibson serial number, which looked really bad. Then I repeated the same process with these bell-end tuners, and the plate is a bit shorter such that it fits just below the serial number, so that's what I used instead. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar/Waverly-style_Solid_Peghead_Cream_Knobs_-_Relic_Nickel.html I don't know if the location of the serial number is standardized on the newer GIbsons. Maybe mine was stamped a little lower on the headstock? But it's worth a closer look if you plan to use those scalloped-end tuners. Here's a photo that shows how close the bell-end tuners are to the serial number. The plate on the others would overlap the "1". BTW, you can see it's tree-pollen season here at home in the woods, ugh. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarjtb Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Good to know. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainpicker Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 White ovals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted June 4, 2014 Author Share Posted June 4, 2014 Well, I ordered and received the nickel Golden Age tuners from Stew Mac and I hate to say it but they're very disappointing....actually very poor tuners operationally. They look great, the color of the buttons was fine, and they were basically an easy drop-in. However, (1) there was too much slop when changing direction in turning the buttons; (2) I mounted three on one side and the operation wasn't smooth at all, in fact what I'd call gritty with all three; and (3) the length of the tuner button shafts aren't as long as the factory tuners and are too short for the J-35. The tuners on the J-35 are mounted in a straight line and aren't the same distance from the edge. The #1 & 6 tuners are fairly close to the edge; the #2 & 5 tuners are mounted a little further in; and the #3 & 4 tuners are mounted even further in. The result is the #3 & 4 buttons ended up too close to the headstock, making it difficult to use a string winder without damaging the edge of the headstock. I put the factory tuners back on and although they're stiff, they're much better and smoother than the Golden Age. If I decide to continue entertaining the thought of changing the tuners, I'll stick with Gotoh or Grover and if that means no white buttons, so be it. Sure wish there was a way to ease the turning tension on the factory Kluson type tuners. The Golden Age tuners are already boxed up and ready to send back. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarjtb Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Well, I ordered and received the nickel Golden Age tuners from Stew Mac and I hate to say it but they're very disappointing....actually very poor tuners operationally. They look great, the color of the buttons was fine, and they were basically an easy drop-in. However, (1) there was too much slop when changing direction in turning the buttons; (2) I mounted three on one side and the operation wasn't smooth at all, in fact what I'd call gritty with all three; and (3) the length of the tuner button shafts aren't as long as the factory tuners and are too short for the J-35. The tuners on the J-35 are mounted in a straight line and aren't the same distance from the edge. The #1 & 6 tuners are fairly close to the edge; the #2 & 5 tuners are mounted a little further in; and the #3 & 4 tuners are mounted even further in. The result is the #3 & 4 buttons ended up too close to the headstock, making it difficult to use a string winder without damaging the edge of the headstock. I put the factory tuners back on and although they're stiff, they're much better and smoother than the Golden Age. If I decide to continue entertaining the thought of changing the tuners, I'll stick with Gotoh or Grover and if that means no white buttons, so be it. Sure wish there was a way to ease the turning tension on the factory Kluson type tuners. The Golden Age tuners are already boxed up and ready to send back. DC Sorry you had problems. I have had good luck with them. I did not know that the tuners holes on the RI J-35 required longer shafts. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sorry you had problems. I have had good luck with them. I did not know that the tuners holes on the RI J-35 required longer shafts. James Thanks James, and I'm glad you've had good luck with them.... but I didn't say tuner holes. I said tuner button shafts....the thin shaft from the tuner to the button. They were just too short, about 1/8" shorter than the shafts on the factory tuners and that makes a big difference because of the way the holes are placed on the headstock, with the top two holes placed further in, away from the edge. This causes the tuner buttons on those top two tuners to be very close to the edge of the headstock, which I don't want. Unfortunately, the GA specs don't provide that shaft length measurement. For now I'll stick with the factory tuners until I decide what to do. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarjtb Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Thanks James, and I'm glad you've had good luck with them.... but I didn't say tuner holes. I said tuner button shafts....the thin shaft from the tuner to the button. They were just too short, about 1/8" shorter than the shafts on the factory tuners and that makes a big difference because of the way the holes are placed on the headstock, with the top two holes placed further in, away from the edge. This causes the tuner buttons on those top two tuners to be very close to the edge of the headstock, which I don't want. Unfortunately, the GA specs don't provide that shaft length measurement. For now I'll stick with the factory tuners until I decide what to do. DC Right, I understood the problem. I just stated it poorly. I meant the tuner hole alignment requires longer "tuner button shafts". James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted June 5, 2014 Author Share Posted June 5, 2014 Good news. I just spoke to Gibson and they're sending me a new set of tuners. I spoke with a very helpful customer service agent named Garrett who has a J-35 and said the tuners should be smooth and easy to turn with just a bit of resistance, definitely not any strong resistance. +1 for Gibson customer service. I'm just hoping the new set will be better. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted June 5, 2014 Share Posted June 5, 2014 Sorry if this is too obvious. 😊 But does your guitar have the big Grover tuners? How tight is the phillips head screw that attaches the knob to the shaft? On mine, with that screw tightened down, the tuners are difficult to turn. If I loosen the screw, they operate very smoothly. Not sure if this is some kind of locking feature or just friction from over-tightening? BTW, you can also replace the buttons themselves pretty cheaply with the Grovers. I got a set of these awhile ago and they look pretty nice - in fact, when a friend first saw my guitar she immediately said how much she liked them, haha. But I just couldn't get over those big ugly chrome-plated Grovers on the back. https://www.allparts.com/TK-7723-055-Pearloid-Button-Set-for-Grover_p_3929.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Boyd, no, the factory tuners are Gotoh Kluson-style tuners: I wish there were some sort of tension adjustment, but this type of tuner has none. I just received a verification that the replacement set will be sent asap and if they're smoother, great. If not, I'm looking at either Gotoh SE510 or Grover 97C, both with butterbean buttons and from experience, both excellent tuners. Bottom line is I place more importance on smooth operation than having white buttons and I actually prefer the feel of butterbean buttons over ovals. So we'll see. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRC Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 UPDATE 7/31/14: Thinking I'd never get the replacement tuners from Gibson, I ended up ordering a set of LMI Gotoh 510 open backs, which are very nice. Then... the other day I FINALLY received the replacement factory tuners from Gibson and they're much smoother and easier to turn than the ones that came with the guitar. I've been using the LMI Gotoh 510 open backs on it, but decided to install the replacement white button tuners and they're nice and smooth. So I've decided to leave them on and maintain the original look of the J-35. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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