jvi Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ive had my j45 for a few months now and maybe Im slow but the neck seems thicker or wider ( bigger) than previous 45s Ive owned, Im gettin a little older but seems like bar chords are a bit tougher, could this be why a lot of folks are lowering action ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Roy Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 Ive had my j45 for a few months now and maybe Im slow but the neck seems thicker or wider ( bigger) than previous 45s Ive owned, Im gettin a little older but seems like bar chords are a bit tougher, could this be why a lot of folks are lowering action ? Someone more knowledgeable than me will have to answer your question about neck width. But I always take my guitars in to my tech for a set up within a week or two of purchase. Never found one yet that was set up like I want it out of the box. May be all yours needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 the neck seems thicker or wider ( bigger) than previous 45s Ive owned How old were the previous ones? The neck on my 1974 J-50 is skinnier than my 2008 J-50, and my 1965 J-50 neck is even skinner, which I really prefer. For me, it isn't a question of not being able to play chords but that my hand gets sore more quickly with the modern Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 23, 2016 Share Posted March 23, 2016 My 45 Standard felt chunkier than other Gibsons when I got it. (talking 1-3/4's) A lower action and some careful neck-sanding with a very fine kitchen-sponge solved that 'prob'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 My 45 Standard felt chunkier than other Gibsons when I got it. (talking 1-3/4's) A lower action and some careful sanding with a very fine kitchen-spoon solved that 'prob'. OK, I've got to ask. How do you sand with a kitchen spoon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 I'm also interested in this . Definitely up for most interesting post this week ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted March 24, 2016 Author Share Posted March 24, 2016 the gibsons that felt better were ,for example, a lot of 1990s models, back in my 2nd hey day i owned a 90s aj, j 45, j 200 jr , all seemed to have a "friendlier" neck, could be I was stronger in my 40s, this current j45 does seem a bit chunkier tho, even after a luthier preformed set up,and as stated it does seem like a lot of people on here go for an immediate set up lower than factory, I dont recall this happening so much before.....also curious about the spoon.....J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 OK, I've got to ask. How do you sand with a kitchen spoon? I'm also interested in this . Definitely up for most interesting post this week ! Gentlemen - if you have the skills (and the will) you can sand with a chocolate/vanilla ice cream or an Easter-egg ! Ha, , , touché - of course meant the rough side of one of these sponges - http://www.howtoclea...oads/sponge.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 What were you sanding with that sponge? The neck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 What were you sanding with that sponge? The neck? Sure. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Gentlemen - if you have the skills (and the will) you can sand with a chocolate/vanilla ice cream or an Easter-egg ! Ha, , , touché - of course meant the rough side of one of these sponges - http://www.howtoclea...oads/sponge.jpg OK, so now we know: he sands with the Scotchbrite pad side of a kitchen cleaning sponge. There are actually foam sanding "sponges" available in many grits (from Home Depot or Lowe's in the US, or most hardware stores). These are rubber or plastic foam infused with various grits of abrasive, usually silicon carbide, so they last a long time, and you can use them wet or dry. I typically use them to sand out drywall compound, but they come in everything from very course to ultra-fine. They're quite good for shaping surfaces, since they conform better than sandpaper. Darn it, I was waiting for a lesson on sanding with a kitchen spoon.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Sure. . You are actually removing enough wood to make a noticeable difference in the thickness of the neck? And re-varnishing the neck afterwards? I thought about sanding down the neck of my 2008 J-50 to make it thinner, but that would involve removing a lot of wood and I am afraid I'd make a mess of it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 You are actually removing enough wood to make a noticeable difference in the thickness of the neck? And re-varnishing the neck afterwards? Ok - listen (though an experienced sander, this might be too advanced for Nick). You sit yourself down on a chair and relax. Then place the guitar sideways on your feet so the neck rises in front of your torso. One hand takes a grip just above the heel. In step 3 the perfect flexible spoon is placed between the neck and your free palm (for me the left hand). The gliding takes place in even up'n'down moves from fret 1 and down (up the neck). Do 20-25 glides at a time. Look at the sponge - it'll be rather white from lacquer dust. Then try the guitar - play what you know real well. Maybe take a break and return for a second test. Probably more is needed, but you have to be careful as no one wants to go too far. You'll be surprised how both significant and subtle the difference feels. Sometimes much more than 50 is needed - 2 - 4 - 5 hundred. Don't forget acting in steps I've done it a lot - because my hand knows what it wants and I don't like too big differences from guitar to guitar. Also worked over periods of time with the same guit. Only in 2 occasions was it necessary to break through the lacquer. The far too chunky 96 Dove and HD-28V, which needed further modification of the modified V-shape. But try your way forward (if you dare) - there'll be no micro-scratches and if so they'll soon be polished away by your chord chasing left hand. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Ok - listen (though an experienced sander, this might be too advanced for Nick). But try your way forward (if you dare) - there'll be no micro-scratches and if so they'll soon be polished away by your chord chasing left hand. Good Luck Sounds like you're really just flattening the lacquer, which can make moving up and down the neck easier. I've seen a number of serious players do that, particularly Nashville types. Don't some Martins come with flat (non-gloss) lacquer on the necks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Sounds like you're really just flattening the lacquer, which can make moving up and down the neck easier. I've seen a number of serious players do that, particularly Nashville types. Don't some Martins come with flat (non-gloss) lacquer on the necks? I simply remove lacquer - the procedure follows obvious logic. If it get flatter, , , mmmmm, , , perhaps - tho I tend to think a well-played neck gets pretty even by the ever caressing left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I simply remove lacquer - the procedure follows obvious logic. If it get flatter, , , mmmmm, , , perhaps - tho I tend to think a well-played neck gets pretty even by the ever caressing left hand. I knew "flat" was the wrong term to use with you. In painting/varnishing/lacquer terms, "flat" just means "no gloss". Doesn't refer to the shape in any way. You have gloss finishes, semi-gloss finishes, satin finishes, and flat finishes (among others). Flattening the finish means taking the high gloss off it. Sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Sorry for the confusion. Flat = Matt - okay, leaned. Apart from that the size of the neck is changed. The thickness and - if wanted - the shape. We all know how very little can seem like a lot when it comes to guitars. Nut width - string spacing - string gauge - brace mass - fret height - tuning ratio. A fine indicator of the sensibilities of these instruments is in fact the tuning itself. It tells us how fine we should be able to go. Ask luthiers who threw a life-time into these things. They'll stun us with their flair'n'ear for finesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Flat = Matt - okay, leaned. Apart from that the size of the neck is changed. The thickness and - if wanted - the shape. We all know how very little can seem like a lot when it comes to guitars. Nut width - string spacing - string gauge - brace mass - fret height - tuning ratio. A fine indicator of the sensibilities of these instruments is in fact the tuning itself. It tells us how fine we should be able to go. Ask luthiers who threw a life-time into these things. They'll stun us with their flair'n'ear for finesse. You raise an interesting point. Removing small amounts of lacquer does make a small--but measurable--change in the neck dimensions. These differences can be important for some players. I've been reluctant to experiment on guitars the way you do, in part because I don't depend on my guitars to make my living. For a professional musician, optimizing your tools is just a part of the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 after having my J45 for a few months I went to change the battery and noticed a small crack in the end of the finger board, took it right back and got a new one( no charge no hassel) and its only 1 day older from factory and Im sure the neck is a bit less thick, sure feels nice, could there be variance over 1 day with modern machinery ? do they actually hand finish the shape? what ever Im very glad the first one had what IM sure is a very unusual crack, or is it unusual for the end of the board to slit ? cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly campbell Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Great conversation and hilarious at the same time...I thought exactly what you guys did and though hell I would have a heart attack if I tried to do that. but it does make sense once we knew what he was talking about for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Im sure the neck is a bit less thick, sure feels nice, could there be variance over 1 day with modern machinery ? do they actually hand finish the shape? You be the judge: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7YdN1EE6FI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp_PM60SAFc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullmental Alpinist Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axVDA2iHClA (I'm trying to figure out where j45nick uses sheet rock compound on a sailboat....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (I'm trying to figure out where j45nick uses sheet rock compound on a sailboat....) Nowhere. I've built a few houses, as well. Boats or houses, they're a lot work any way you look at it. I build stuff: houses, boats, furniture, fences. I come from a long line of farmers and builders. "Houses are but badly built boats so firmly aground that you cannot think of moving them" (Arthur Ransome) Still thinking about taking on building a guitar..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Nowhere. I've built a few houses, as well. Boats or houses, they're a lot work any way you look at it. I build stuff: houses, boats, furniture, fences. I come from a long line of farmers and builders. "Houses are but badly built boats so firmly aground that you cannot think of moving them" (Arthur Ransome) Still thinking about taking on building a guitar..... Now that you point it out , it's a bit of a surprise that you haven't done that yet Nick There is a luthiers college near me in Belfast that is manned by the Avalon guitar makers and some of the lowden guys. Just haven't had the spare cash to put my name down , but it's definitely on the list . Would be nice to own a guitar built with your own hands . You can pick the woods bracing etc all by yourself and they simply guide you in the workshop . Like an open university course. One of these days I'll get my numbers up and do all the things I long to do . At the minute though I need a new lawnmower . Geez . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvi Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 nice to see the process, seems like the final neck sanding could allow for small differences, I think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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