slimt Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Did you read this in that listing? "This one could eventually benefit from a neck reset, height at 12th fret is .74 inch" I would say that one is way past needing a neck reset! the guitar is pretty beat.. it looks to need a complete overhaul.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Hello buddy to you, too- Vintage Instruments' Fred Oster has built his business on his reputation, as well as his appearances on the television show "Antiques Roadshow". Fred will also listen to your needs and suggest (or find) the guitar that meets the sound and condition that you are looking for. Of course, you will pay a premium for this, but you will not be getting a guitar with any funny business going on. Surprisingly, he has a '52 J-45 for less ($5850) than the one you are about to trigger upon: Link: Here's the clearer pics: Is the bridge original ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Is the bridge original ? It certainly is the correct bridge for the year of the guitar. You would have to ask the seller if the bridge is original to the guitar or not. There's no way to tell from a photo unless the bridge is clearly wrong. Fred Oster has a really good reputation. If he tells you the bridge is original, it probably is. In any case, I would rather have a perfect reproduction bridge than a split or overly-shaved original bridge, if my concern was the playability of the guitar. This is an exact replica of a slot-through, belly-up J-45 bridge as used from about mid-1948 until Gibson went to a drop-in saddle sometime in the mid 1950's, I believe. It was made by Ross Teigen for my 1948-1950 J-45: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 ,,, Happy to see you chime in... The replacement bridge of your 1948-1950 J-45 looks like an upside-down Martin bridge (usually ebony)? hahaha... I just emailed Fred, unreplied yet, also would like to take other guys comments. Beside the originality of bridge, I asked him if his 1952 J-45 has side supports which begin to discontinue starting from 1950, seem standard from 1952. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Happy to see you chime in... The replacement bridge of your 1948-1950 J-45 looks like an upside-down Martin bridge (usually ebony)? hahaha... I just emailed Fred, unreplied yet, also would like to take other guys comments. Beside the originality of bridge, I asked him if his 1952 J-45 has side supports which begin to discontinue starting from 1950, seem standard from 1952. If it is a 1952, it should have an unambiguous Z-prefix FON. It will certainly not have fabric side supports, and by zombywoof's research, should not have the wood side supports, either. If it does by any chance have wood side supports, it is still a 1952 if it has a Z-prefix FON. It's hard to understand exactly what you are after with some of your questions. I can understand wanting to own a J-45 from this particular period, but how important certain individual characteristics are, such as the side supports, seem secondary compared to the general condition and originality of the guitar. It is highly unlikely that side supports would have been added to the guitar after it left the factory, since it is an awkward job with the top on the body. Both the fabric and wood side supports appear to tuck in behind the top and bottom kerfing, but it's hard to tell definitively from looking at them, at least on the guitars I have with those details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Ill just keep buying and putting those away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 It's hard to understand exactly what you are after with some of your questions. I can understand wanting to own a J-45 from this particular period, but how important certain individual characteristics are, such as the side supports, seem secondary compared to the general condition and originality of the guitar. Thank you j45nick for your reply. Actually what I'm concerned is not side supports, but whether or not solid sides, cause some guys(including John Shults, True Vintage Guitars) say side supports means solid sides, vice versa. He says: Gibson used solid Mahogany rims on Mahogany backed guitars up until 1951. That's about when they started making them with laminated sides with no supports. There was no more risk of splitting so they discontinued using the side supports. I wonder if early 1952 is covered in "side supports" period range. So came the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Thank you j45nick for your reply. Actually what I'm concerned is not side supports, but whether or not solid sides, cause some guys(including John Shults, True Vintage Guitars) say side supports means solid sides, vice versa. He say: Gibson used solid Mahogany rims on Mahogany backed guitars up until 1951. That's about when they started making them with laminated sides with no supports. There was no more risk of splitting so they discontinued using the side supports. I wonder if early 1952 is covered in "side supports" period range. So came the issue. With Gibson, then even more than now, many specs/dates are approximate. To some of us, it's part of the charm - once that's accepted, life becomes much more pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 That's a good looking 52 Oster has. I'd jump on that one, laminated sides or not ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 That's a good looking 52 Oster has. I'd jump on that one, laminated sides or not ! My Goodness ! Really ? you wanna just take that one ? Don't you get to listen to it before triggering ? Good luck ! lovely friend... Oh, don't forget to tell if you take it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm not sure, after rereading this thread, whether you're looking to find a player or a collector's piece. Or possibly both rolled into one? If you want a player, I'd suggest you play a few - settle on the one that suits you - forget the total originality and structural nuance obsessions - buy it and enjoy it. If you want a collector's piece, go somewhere with a good reputation for dealing that kind of thing and pony-up the asking price. If you want both-in-one, don't expect a quick discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fp Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 My Goodness ! Really ? you wanna just take that one ? Don't you get to listen to it before triggering ? Good luck ! lovely friend... Oh, don't forget to tell if you take it or not. I've bought many many guitars without listening to them first and really never been disappointed in any of them. After that smart *** reply to me I can't say to you what I want to without getting a reprimand from a forum mod. Your a pain in the *** ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm not sure, after rereading this thread, whether you're looking to find a player or a collector's piece. Or possibly both rolled into one? If you want a player, I'd suggest you play a few - settle on the one that suits you - forget the total originality and structural nuance obsessions - buy it and enjoy it. If you want a collector's piece, go somewhere with a good reputation for dealing that kind of thing and pony-up the asking price. If you want both-in-one, don't expect a quick discovery. Thank you OldCowboy. What I'd like is primarily a player one(but primarily means play wear, scuffs,etc). Would be better if there are more originality. Replacement is OK, but better if they're period correct. So a new rectangular bridge with a drop-in slot is just a HORROR MONSTER to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 ,,, After that smart *** reply to me I can't say to you what I want to without getting a reprimand from a forum mod. Your a pain in the *** ! OK, understand. Let the secret in the darkness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Thank you OldCowboy. What I'd like is primarily a player one(but primarily means play wear, scuffs,etc). Would be better if there are more originality. Replacement is OK, but better if they're period correct. So a new rectangular bridge with a drop-in slot is just a HORROR MONSTER to me! Just a little background on the rectangular-drop- in bridge: at one time, over a matter of many years, actually, that's what you got from Gibson as a replacement if your bridge malfunctioned and you returned the guitar to the factory. I know that probably sounds odd, but they did even more bizarre repairs at times, as I know other forum members can attest. So, actually, the one you saw was likely done at the factory. Their notion at that time wasn't oriented to restoration, but rather to 'fixing' a problem. This would have been especially true if the guitar came in during the time when Gibson was using Martin bridge orientation on new models (roughly 1969 through the decade of the 1970s) and they didn't have 'backwards' bridges on hand. Not so much intended to change how you feel about the bridge, but just to pass along information☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Just a little background on the rectangular-drop- in bridge: at one time, over a matter of many years, actually, that's what you got from Gibson as a replacement if your bridge malfunctioned and you returned the guitar to the factory. I know that probably sounds odd, but they did even more bizarre repairs at times, as I know other forum members can attest. So, actually, the one you saw was likely done at the factory. Their notion at that time wasn't oriented to restoration, but rather to 'fixing' a problem. This would have been especially true if the guitar came in during the time when Gibson was using Martin bridge orientation on new models (roughly 1969 through the decade of the 1970s) and they didn't have 'backwards' bridges on hand. Not so much intended to change how you feel about the bridge, but just to pass along information☺ Yep,,Thank you for telling it... I know, Gibson is known for its inconsistency,,,just do it casual,,,Gibson is street whereas Martin is palace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Yep,,Thank you for telling it... I know, Gibson is known for its inconsistency,,,just do it casual,,,Gibson is street whereas Martin is palace. Hmmmm.... I'd be more inclined to say that Martin, until the introduction of a variety of current models intended to fill certain price points and attract younger players, has generally adhered to a more traditional and conservative approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 Jim Brown in Seattle has a nice old 1950 J-45... ... that looks good. He tends to have some nice Gibsons go through his hands. More here: https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-j-45-1950-sunburst-4 Fred Sorry Fred ! I forgot listing you into my THANK V CHART...until I reread the your reply to my thread... Last time I searched to get Jet City site, listened to the clip of that 1950 J-45, but it's a pity that's not me. But I just found he also has a Banner J-45 (1943-1944, basically a player one) asking for 7500 only(Wonder if it's bucause of two big scars on the back), very inexpensive, right? I asked him for a clip, he said nobody else to hold a phone for his playing...Actually I'm a bit leaned to taking this Banner... (https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-j-45-1944-sunburst) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 There are a couple of things with the Jet City guitar that I would investigate further. The bridge looks very low in the last picture. Is it possibly shaved? To me the top looks a lot like sitka. Also, if I'm not mistaken very few guitars during the war actually had truss rods, due to wartime shortages. The possibility of a sitka top, no FON, and a truss rod, could indicate a later guitar. Maybe 1945? Please, don't take what I say for certain. I'm far from an expert. You might get some more input from this site http://www.bannergibsons.com/registry.html Best of luck, Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted January 5, 2017 Author Share Posted January 5, 2017 There are a couple of things with the Jet City guitar that I would investigate further. The bridge looks very low in the last picture. Is it possibly shaved? To me the top looks a lot like sitka. Also, if I'm not mistaken very few guitars during the war actually had truss rods, due to wartime shortages. The possibility of a sitka top, no FON, and a truss rod, could indicate a later guitar. Maybe 1945? Please, don't take what I say for certain. I'm far from an expert. You might get some more input from this site http://www.bannergibsons.com/registry.html Best of luck, Lars OK, i'll check the site out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share Posted January 7, 2017 There are a couple of things with the Jet City guitar that I would investigate further. The bridge looks very low in the last picture. Is it possibly shaved? To me the top looks a lot like sitka. Also, if I'm not mistaken very few guitars during the war actually had truss rods, due to wartime shortages. The possibility of a sitka top, no FON, and a truss rod, could indicate a later guitar. Maybe 1945? Please, don't take what I say for certain. I'm far from an expert. You might get some more input from this site http://www.bannergibsons.com/registry.html Best of luck, Lars WOW, Lars68 ! You guessed right, that "1943-1944" J-45 turned out to be a 1945 ! becuase of no FON...from most data,,of course, minority info shows the odd that it's probably a 1944 as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 WOW, Lars68 ! You guessed right, that "1943-1944" J-45 turned out to be a 1945 ! becuase of no FON...from most data,,of course, minority info shows the odd that it's probably a 1944 as well. Well, I don't think anyone can ever say for sure which year a no FON Gibson was made, but one year can be more likely than another. As a buyer, it is always good to try to be as informed as possible. There is nothing wrong with a 1945 guitar, but sitka and adi are different top woods. Although I doubt anyone could tell the difference in a 70+ year old guitar, the market probably prices them a little differently. Just a guess... Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gotomsdos Posted February 6, 2017 Author Share Posted February 6, 2017 Jim Brown in Seattle has a nice old 1950 J-45... ... that looks good. He tends to have some nice Gibsons go through his hands. More here: https://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-j-45-1950-sunburst-4 Fred Thank you Fred ana all ! Turned out to be that, I've basically decided to take this one. Any comments and advice before my paying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwegian Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Congrats! Looks like a great guitar :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Turned out to be that, I've basically decided to take this one. More than exciting - in fact fantastic that you finally came this far. May it be the sweetest sounding 45 of 2017. And let us hear more as it unfolds, mr. gotomsdos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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