Rah67123 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) Hi everyone! I’m hoping my bridge can be salvaged. I sent pics to the luthier and he said he recommends replacing it but that he would try to fix it but no guarantee Edited April 30, 2020 by Rah67123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Exactly, No guarantees. Any good repairperson can glue that bridge back together and how long it lasts is not something human beings can predict. It could last forever or a week. He knows that. He also knows that a new bridge is not cracked. Looking at it from his point of view, if he glues that bridge and it doesn't hold, word could get out (quite unfairly) that he is a poor repairperson. In addition, you will be bringing it back to him and likely expecting him to repair or replace it for nothing. This is why he wants to replace the bridge. Let him do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Seems like he's fairly set all the conditions for repairing it, and the only damage I can see in the pic is the corner broken off, looking like an area not under the stress of string tension. School me if I'm missing something I can't see. I've had several bridge repairs done successfully and that looks like a good candidate for a fix, especially if it's Brazilian. You don't date the guitar so losing a BRW bridge would diminish the value. Did your guy want to remove it to repair. which would be the better way, the way I see it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah67123 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 It sounds like you at least think theirs a chance it might hold. It’s going to cost around 450 to repair the bridge and a couple of cracks. If it breaks then I’m going to have to pay all over again because he made it very clear that he would not guarantee the work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Yes, there is a good chance it will hold. But again, it’s not something anyone can predict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) That's pretty steep, even to remove and replace. Do you have other luthiers available for estimates? Edited April 30, 2020 by jedzep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah67123 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 No. I’m in small Charleston WV and it’s very limited. There’s only two here and the other guy takes a lifetime to make a repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 What year model is the guitar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah67123 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 It’s a 53 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Rah67123 said: It sounds like you at least think theirs a chance it might hold. It’s going to cost around 450 to repair the bridge and a couple of cracks. If it breaks then I’m going to have to pay all over again because he made it very clear that he would not guarantee the work Looks like the reason it broke was that the glue holding it to the top failed, at least on the front half of the bridge, so all the string load was applied to the bridge on the forward edges of the pin holes. The bridge needs to come completely off, glued back together properly, old glue needs to be scraped off underside of bridge and top of guitar, and re-glued. If this is a vintage guitar--the bridge style is early 1950's or late 40's--you may want to check the condition of the bridgeplate while the bridge is off. Its the perfect time to plug and re-drill the bridgeplate pin holes if necessary. If it is a clean break with no evidence of having been previously repaired, a repair should be ok provided the bridge is properly re-glued together and re-glued to the top. Your luthier was right to say "no guarantee", but if it's original to a vintage guiter which looks like it might be in nice shape, it is probably worth taking the chance, if your guy is good. This job, plus any necessary repairs to the bridgeplate, would probably run about $250-300 if my guy did it. Replacing rather than repairing would add about $100-150, using BRW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Last year for the non adj saddle . First year for the large guard. If Im not mistakin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Well, that bridge should be removed and repaired, as it's valuable in itself. Don't know what the extent of cracks to be fixed is, but $450 is about the cost of a neck reset. My guy gets about $165 to remove and replace a bridge, however I can't make judgements from a photo. It looks usable the way it is. True? I can understand how it might be hard to guarantee the corner will hold when pressure is applied to reglue to the top. If you replace it, make sure you keep the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Just now, slimt said: Last year for the non adj saddle . First year for the large guard. If Im not mistakin. No, last year of the slot-through saddle. Went to drop-in saddle the next year. Large pickguard sometime in 1955. I think ADJ became an option around 1956, but not standard until mid-1960's on the 45/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) This cannot be done properly without completely removing the bridge. If he doesn't do that, it's a waste of time and money. If the bridge is properly glued to the top, all the shear load is taken on the full gluing surface of the underside of the bridge. The little bolts do nothing. Edited April 30, 2020 by j45nick added additional thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 If you have a back up guitar to play, I'd at least show it to the other guy. I'm surprised there are just two luthiers in Charleston, a fairly big town. I'd search for others in the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) Yeah...it's gotta' come off, as Nick observed. Edited April 30, 2020 by jedzep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) Are there bolts under the dots on this? Might have tightened too much at that corner. That's a delicate pressure point if overtightened again. Googling guitar repair in Charleston WV shows a handful. Edited April 30, 2020 by jedzep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Just now, jedzep said: Are there bolts under the dots on this? Might have tightened too much at that corner. There would be bolts in 1953. They are tiny, and only carry load if the glue joint fails. The modern Gibson I have has the dots, but no bolts. The bolts are handy for alignment, but that's really about it. There's plenty of gluing surface on the underside of the bridge to carry the load if it is glued properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah67123 Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 Thanks to all of you for the info. I took this photo if it helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Best of luck! I hope you can somehow keep the original bridge on. Let us know how you make out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 16 minutes ago, Rah67123 said: Thanks to all of you for the info. I took this photo if it helps There is a fair amount of grain tear-out and wear around and between the pinholes, but I've seen a lot worse. What you want to see when the guitar is strung up is all those string ball ends bearing on the bridgeplate rather than pulling into the holes in the plate. If the pins are a good fit in the holes, this is a lot easier to achieve. It looks fairly similar to the plate on the 1950 J-45 I bought last year. The guy who works on my guitars (Ross Teigen) likes to save original bridgeplates, so he used a filled, tinted epoxy to fill the holes and tear-out, then re-drilled the holes and reamed them to the proper taper for a good pin fit. That can be done anytime, whether or not the bridge is on, and I would only consider having it done by someone who has done it before, since you can make a mess of things pretty easily. You do not need to replace this bridgeplate. With no strings installed, the pins should seat firmly in the holes with little or no movement. If yours don't do that, get some new pins. Bob Colosi's website tell you how to measure for pins. Those originally would have been what he calls size 1T or 2A. The 2A is slightly fatter at the top, which can be good in worn pin holes. He also has 2A Authentics, which are slightly fatter still. If your pins fit well at both the top of the bridge and the bridgeplate, the are the right size. If they don't, they aren't. Measure them with a digital caliper if you have one, just to be sure. Post a picture of the front of the guitar when/if you can. The inside looks nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 To be honest its not uncommon to see this. And it would be well worth getting replaced. There are brazilian blanks that can be bought and shaped for a new bridge. Looks like the plate could use replacing as well. Nick ,I have not owned many J50s or 45s from the 50s and the ones I had didnt last long here to pay close attention too. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 (edited) I would try to re-set it first. Work in some glue by a thin piece of paper, press it back and clamp the thing for 24 hours. Edited April 30, 2020 by E-minor7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 59 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: I would try to re-set it first. Work in some glue by a thin piece of paper, press it back and clamp the thing for 24 hours. That depends on which part is actually loose from the top: the main part of the bridge, or the part below the pin holes. Once you do a half-way repair like that, if it fails again, you throw away the bridge, since the failure point is glue-contaminated. Unless you can remove the old glue, the glue you work into the joint will have minimal holding power, and you may be back to square one. You need a clean wood-to-wood joint if it is going to successfully bear any load. It appears to be a '53 J-50--although the OP hasn't given us the FON--so originality has inherent value if it can be maintained. A sloppy repair, however, is worse than a proper replacement bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rah67123 Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 23 minutes ago, j45nick said: That depends on which part is actually loose from the top: the main part of the bridge, or the part below the pin holes. Once you do a half-way repair like that, if it fails again, you throw away the bridge, since the failure point is glue-contaminated. Unless you can remove the old glue, the glue you work into the joint will have minimal holding power, and you may be back to square one. You need a clean wood-to-wood joint if it is going to successfully bear any load. It appears to be a '53 J-50--although the OP hasn't given us the FON--so originality has inherent value if it can be maintained. A sloppy repair, however, is worse than a proper replacement bridge. yes it’s a 1953 serial number starts with “Y” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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