Can my j-50 bridge be saved

[jedzep]

One of the great all time guitars! Lucky you just missed the introduction of the big problematic pick guard. Keep it in good playing shape.

[Rah67123]

I would really like to keep everything as original as possible so I’m going to attempt to have as much of the original repaired as I possibly can.  It seems to me, with the few luthiers I’ve talked with, that they don’t seem to be as passionate as I am about keeping things original. As a matter of fact he seemed surprised when I said I wanted to keep the bridge and plate if at all possible even though a repair may be more costly/time consuming for him.  You would think they would understand that a nearly 79 year old guitar is pretty darn special

[Rah67123]

5 minutes ago, jedzep said:

One of the great all time guitars! Lucky you just missed the introduction of the big problematic pick guard. Keep it in good playing shape.

I’m glad someone else on here appreciates the x, y, z guitars as much as I do. I tell people all the time that you don’t have to pay all the extra money for the 1940s models, they are awesome to, but get an early 50s for a lot less money and you’ll have one of Gibson’s best ever.  The war was over so no shortage of workers and after many years of getting by with limited materials, they had great wood in abundance 

[jedzep]

I know those guys are out there and serve a function, but there are many who have the passion of period correctness and originality. Also, it keeps the value preserved. These are the only luthiers I deal with up here in the great white north.

I hope your guy is a meticulous, careful, craftsman. That'll be good enough. If you suspect he lacks confidence, take the time to truck it around. You might find one of those passionate restoration guys.

A 79 year old guitar is pretty special, but the Gibson name and model is what makes it so.

[j45nick]

You have the right attitude on this.

I don't see anything there that can't be fixed, and the guitar looks to be in nice condition. Feel free to PM me if you want any more input. I have a couple of 1950 j-45's, and the post-banner slope-J's up to 1953 are a particular interest.

A good luthier will want to turn it into the best possible player. A good restoration specialist will want to turn it into the best possible player, while keeping it it as original as possible.

[jedzep]

I've had bridges repaired that were in much worse shape, BTW.

[BluesKing777]

 

Can I ask why we are keeping the old broken bridge in my case glove box rattling around in a bag?

Just a little story here about how one thing leads to another.......

 

I opened the case for my 52 LG1 one fine morning and the original bridge (Brazilian Rosewood) was split in half. My luthier suggested a new one as the guitar wasn't worth anywhere near the 50s J50 above. I wanted to repair the old one, but he said the same as the one above for the odds of it lasting.

So we talked about it some more and I said how I used it for slide in Open D most of the time (skinny bowed old neck perfect for slide and not a lot else!). Ooh, ooh, ooh, he said - I have a beautiful very old and very dense piece of ebony for a new bridge for it and the thing may just sustain for days.

Done!

And...from the same stock of old ebony, later I got a new bridge and fretboard and headstock veneer for my 1937 L-0!

And, and, and...later I got a whole guitar out of it! (L-00 deep body style with ebony back and sides and Italian spruce top and custom V neck!!)

And his ebony stock is now all gone.... 

 

Ebony bridge on poor old 52 LG1:

1937 L-0 with ebony board, bridge and faceplate:

Custom guitar:

 

 

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2020 by BluesKing777

[jedzep]

Tears of joy.

[Rah67123]

23 minutes ago, j45nick said:

You have the right attitude on this.

I don't see anything there that can't be fixed, and the guitar looks to be in nice condition. Feel free to PM me if you want any more input. I have a couple of 1950 j-45's, and the post-banner slope-J's up to 1953 are a particular interest.

A good luthier will want to turn it into the best possible player. A good restoration specialist will want to turn it into the best possible player, while keeping it it as original as possible.

Just out of curiosity because you said up until then, the 1954 is the same as the 53 right?  The scalloped races started in 55 I believe along with the different pick guard

[j45nick]

1 minute ago, Rah67123 said:

Just out of curiosity because you said up until then, the 1954 is the same as the 53 right?  The scalloped races started in 55 I believe along with the different pick guard

There are other differences, such as the tapered headstock and slot-through saddle. I believe scalloped braces (yours are scalloped) stopped sometime in 1954 or '55. Sometime in '55, they went to the larger pickguard and  20-fret board. I'm not sure of the end date for the tapered headstock, but it was around 1953.

There are probably guitars in this period that have a mixture of these features.

[Rah67123]

33 minutes ago, jedzep said:

I've had bridges repaired that were in much worse shape, BTW.

Thank you so much. I’ll send pics when it’s done

[Rah67123]

1 minute ago, j45nick said:

There are other differences, such as the tapered headstock and slot-through saddle. I believe scalloped braces (yours are scalloped) stopped sometime in 1954 or '55. Sometime in '55, they went to the larger pickguard and  20-fret board. I'm not sure of the end date for the tapered headstock, but it was around 1953.

There are probably guitars in this period that have a mixture of these features.

Your a wealth of information 

[slimt]

10 minutes ago, Rah67123 said:

Your a wealth of information 

These guys are good.  They know there Guitars. 

[jedzep]

Hey, by the way, I forgot to ask earlier if you play it, since it looks partly unstrung? There are certainly other issues of playability that you'll have to check out, string height and neck angle, to be specific. How did it play before the bridge broke off? Does it have orig tuners?

[Rah67123]

I have never played this guitar. I just got it last week and can’t string it up until It gets repaired.   It does have the original tuners however the buttons or tuning knobs whatever you call them literally crumbled when I tried to turn them. I left two strings fairly tight because I heard on this site that it could cause neck problems without some tension on it.   I’m going to make sure that he measures to make sure the strings are where they need to be off the neck. He makes guitars so I’m confident he can do it

[jedzep]

Yeah. If he knows you value originality you should be able to work with him. I have a younger luthier just out of school that does solid work for basics like crack repair. He had to be talked into a couple vintage bridge repairs. Both times he did a good tight fix. Some of it is just basic.

[j45nick]

23 minutes ago, Rah67123 said:

I have never played this guitar. I just got it last week and can’t string it up until It gets repaired.   It does have the original tuners however the buttons or tuning knobs whatever you call them literally crumbled when I tried to turn them. I left two strings fairly tight because I heard on this site that it could cause neck problems without some tension on it.   I’m going to make sure that he measures to make sure the strings are where they need to be off the neck. He makes guitars so I’m confident he can do it

The most accurate replacement tuner buttons are made by Antique Acoustics. I'm pretty sure Elderly Instruments sells them. I put a set on the tuners of the 1950 J-45 I go last year, as the originals had shrunken and were starting to crumble. While the old bridge is on, you need to check the neck angle.

[Rah67123]

5 minutes ago, j45nick said:

The most accurate replacement tuner buttons are made by Antique Acoustics. I'm pretty sure Elderly Instruments sells them. I put a set on the tuners of the 1950 J-45 I go last year, as the originals had shrunken and were starting to crumble. While the old bridge is on, you need to check the neck angle.

Ok I’ll order them from elderly and take them to him

[E-minor7]

2 hours ago, j45nick said:

That depends on which part is actually loose from the top: the main part of the bridge, or the part below the pin holes. Once you do a half-way repair like that, if it fails again, you throw away the bridge, since the failure point is glue-contaminated.  

Unless you can remove the old glue, the glue you work into the joint will have minimal holding power, and you may be back to square one. You need a clean wood-to-wood joint if it is going to successfully bear any load.

It appears to be a '53 J-50--although the OP hasn't given us the FON--so originality has inherent value if it can be maintained. A sloppy repair, however, is worse than a proper replacement bridge.

 

I'm almost sure it's the lower part that has clicked loose.  And simply try not to  crack nuts with the elevator.  If the stray-piece is flexible enough, it should be possible to bend id back in place. Did that with the 65 CW shown in the quarantine day-thread, , , but admit it sprang open once more after a year. Then again it wasn't clamped at all after the operation -  and probably lacked glueing skills.  The easier, the better in situations like this. A decent luthier will know all about what is needed, but may suggest the bigger job, , , the way gartner here insists the trees must be top-cut to stay healthy, , , eeehh, and to bring butter on his bread.     

[Rah67123]

23 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

 

I'm almost sure it's the lower part that has clicked loose.  And simply try not to  crack nuts with the elevator.  If the stray-piece is flexible enough, it should be possible to bend id back in place. Did that with the 65 CW shown in the quarantine day-thread, , , but admit it sprang open once more after a year. Then again it wasn't clamped at all after the operation -  and probably lacked glueing skills.  The easier, the better in situations like this. A decent luthier will know all about what is needed, but may suggest the bigger job, , , the way gartner here insists the trees must be top-cut to stay healthy, , , eeehh, and to bring butter on his bread.     

Do you think I should come out and ask that he clamp it and leave it set for a couple of days?

[jedzep]

Just relax and let Roger do his thing.

[Rah67123]

16 minutes ago, jedzep said:

Just relax and let Roger do his thing.

Yes, I worry too much. I think I’ve watched too many repair videos on YouTube and some are cringeworthy 

[E-minor7]

48 minutes ago, Rah67123 said:

Do you think I should come out and ask that he clamp it and leave it set for a couple of days?

If a mister Roger is on the job, jedzep is right.

Underline that you want to keep it as original as possible, ask a few questions about what he intend to and why.  No harm in that, , , and if you find it reasonable, leave the good doc alone.

It'll  probably work out fine.  

[Rah67123]

This is a bridge roger marillo made for another guitar of mine. Anyone familiar with this pickup?  I’ll give you a hint:  it is used on a nylon string Gibson 

[fortyearspickn]

From the original photo - it appears the crack goes all the way to the bolt hole.  If so, it's structural, not cosmetic.  Can this luthier not find a piece of the same species of wood and shape it to match the original bridge?   And,  the $450 price quoted was for additional cracks somewhere else.  I hope the luthier discussed the benefits of also repairing/replacing the bridge plate.  You (or he) can squirt some glue in the crack on the bridge and clamp it, and cosmetically, it'll be OK.  But if  you are hoping to preserve/restore the guitar to it's full potential/value -  I'd consider going all the way.