Guitar characteristics for open tunings and slide

[uncle fester]

Folks - if i wanted a guitar dedicated to open tunings and slide (not strictly slide, but some slide) what do you look for.  I guess for slide it's higher action, but anything else, and for open tunings are there things you'd look for (i.e. short vs long scale, bassier or more balanced sound?)

Thanks for any input - rgds - UF

[zombywoof]

Nothing special I can think of.   While I do not play near as much slide as I once did, the guitars I tend to use for open tuning are my  one of my Harmony Sovereigns or my 1955/56 Epiphone FT79.   Nothing about them though which suits them for this better than others.    What I do own which comes in handy when it comes to slide is an extension metal nut which is designed to go over the standard nut on a guitar allowing you to raise the action for slide without changing out anything.  The Oscar Schmidt Company supplied these with some guitars to allow you to play both lap and Spanish style.   They are still available.  I think Grover makes them.

[62burst]

They say that long scale guitars work better for alt tunings, due to the increased string tension (?)

[QuestionMark]

When I first started seriously delving into playing slide guitar, I was told by a slide player to look for one that had the cheapest wood (like pine) and to use a second string instead a first string to give the first string more tension.  
 

He supported his claim to use the cheapest wood guitar on the premise that a slide guitar should sound raunchy, the raunchier the better, citing some slide guitars being all metal without any wood on top or with a metal resonator taking the place of most of top’s wood.

 I took his advice and used anything from a Stella to a Kay to a Regal resonator for my first few years of seriously playing slide.  

But, then after my slide playing kept improving and for convenience, I started using whatever guitar I was playing non-slide on, as a slide guitar, also...to save the hassle of carrying two guitars with me.  

And, I further developed my slide technique and largely because of Jerry Douglas’ exposure playing square neck slide, a number of higher end round neck acoustic slide solo players started appearing on the scene, and many of them playing some pretty high end instruments...so I stopped using the cheapie guitars for my slide playing and began using my Gibsons and Epiphones that I used for non-slide playing.

 And, as I became more advanced on slide, I began preferring just retuning my Gibsons and Epiphones for slide.  And, playing more refined rather than only raunchy.  I also began just using a full set of lights or mediums rather than substituting the first string with a higher gage.  It worked just fine.  It also enables me to finger notes on the fretboard as well as use the slide.  

That’s where I am, today with my slide playing.  I also no longer use a higher nut or higher bridge. (The exception being when I play my Regal square neck...but on that use I use a different slide, a bar slide.)    Learning to use the slide regardless of a guitar’s height action comes with time playing slide, although a little higher is always preferable, but not necessary.   As a starter , though, go with a little higher.  In time, one begins to learn that it’s more the slide technique  that makes the sound rather than the guitar.

That’s my experience.

But, I think you should wait for our forum friend,  Blues King (or whatever his name is)  from Australia to weigh in on this topic.  As he’s quite a good, experienced, and refined slide player and should be able to offer some good advice on this topic.

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by QuestionMark

[BluesKing777]

 

Hi - ‘Whatever his name is’ here......

You can play open tunings and slide on any guitar, but to get clean and fat notes a guitar with slightly higher action and fat treble strings is better.

I like a guitar that has been pronounced unplayable because of a bow in the neck, put a 16 on the first, tune to open G, grab a glass bottleneck and that is it. I play simple chords or chord partials with my fingers as well as slide, so it all becomes a compromise between here and there! The nut extender ZW mentions makes any guitar great for slide but way too high for fingering notes and chords.

BluesKing777.

 

[uncle fester]

Thanks all for the input, very much appreciate it.  Great information!

[uncle fester]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:25 PM, BluesKing777 said:

 

Hi - ‘Whatever his name is’ here......

You can play open tunings and slide on any guitar, but to get clean and fat notes a guitar with slightly higher action and fat treble strings is better.

I like a guitar that has been pronounced unplayable because of a bow in the neck, put a 16 on the first, tune to open G, grab a glass bottleneck and that is it. I play simple chords or chord partials with my fingers as well as slide, so it all becomes a compromise between here and there! The nut extender ZW mentions makes any guitar great for slide but way too high for fingering notes and chords.

BluesKing777.

 

BK - do you feel short vs long scale makes a difference when playing slide?

Thx - UF

[BluesKing777]

1 hour ago, uncle fester said:

BK - do you feel short vs long scale makes a difference when playing slide?

Thx - UF

 

Long scale would have slightly tighter strings, could be better for slide, but Gibson makes most guitars short scale!

If I have a nice bow in the neck to allow clean sliding, I tune it down another couple of steps (Open G becomes Open F) for the low down growl. Strings are loose, but! Easier on the guitar when it sits unplayed for a few weeks too.

BluesKing777.

 

 

[uncle fester]

11 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Long scale would have slightly tighter strings, could be better for slide, but Gibson makes most guitars short scale!

If I have a nice bow in the neck to allow clean sliding, I tune it down another couple of steps (Open G becomes Open F) for the low down growl. Strings are loose, but! Easier on the guitar when it sits unplayed for a few weeks too.

BluesKing777.

 

 

Thx much BK, very much appreciate the input!

[12MoreGuitars]

Hey ya'll, I have a 55 sherwood deluxe lap steel ( a kay Hawian produced for Montgomery Ward ) it's in fantastic shape and 100% original.  It's a cool and great sounding guitar . I keep it in open E now but have tried D and G. My LP I kept in standard and slide in whatever key ect.....     OK, I  am ready to try something new and was given a set of Scottys in C6. I know nothing about this tuning except a lot of dobro players use it.  I've just stuck to the bluesy stuff so far but I will see  if I can find some and recordings and tabs. Any guidance is always  appreciated. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by 12MoreGuitars
Spelling error

[QuestionMark]

12 hours ago, 12MoreGuitars said:

Hey ya'll, I have a 55 sherwood deluxe lap steel ( a kay Hawian produced for Montgomery Ward ) it's in fantastic shape and 100% original.  It's a cool and great sounding guitar . I keep it in open E now but have tried D and G. My LP I kept in standard and slide in whatever key ect.....     OK, I  am ready to try something new and was given a set of Scottys in C6. I know nothing about this tuning except a lot of dobro players use it.  I've just stuck to the bluesy stuff so far but I will see  if I can find some and recordings and tabs. Any guidance is always  appreciated. 

My first suggestion is to use a bar shaped slide not a round slide that fits over a finger.  Square neck guitars and lap steels, like steel guitars work and sound much better with a bar slide.   Not sure what slide you are using but it’s worth mentioning.  The second suggestion is don’t approach it like you have to keep the bar slide always horizontal over all of the lap steel’s strings.  You can also use it on a diagonal angle and hit only single strings.  And. thirdly, remember that the bar slide becomes the frets.  The frets printed in the lap steel are only there for location ing, not for actually fretting the string.  The bar frets the strings by its contact with them.   And, of course, don’t hesitate to slide the bar up or down into a fret position for a chord or note to make it sound like a lap steel for effect.

For some great lap steel sounds, don’t hesitate to listen to some Hank Williams songs with lap steel. He had one heck of a great lap steel guitar player in his band.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

 

 

[BluesKing777]

49 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

My first suggestion is to use a bar shaped slide not a round slide that fits over a finger.  Square neck guitars and lap steels, like steel guitars work and sound much better with a bar slide.   Not sure what slide you are using but it’s worth mentioning.  The second suggestion is don’t approach it like you have to keep the bar slide always horizontal over all of the lap steel’s strings.  You can also use it on a diagonal angle and hit only single strings.  And. thirdly, remember that the bar slide becomes the frets.  The frets printed in the lap steel are only there for location ing, not for actually fretting the string.  The bar frets the strings by its contact with them.   And, of course, don’t hesitate to slide the bar up or down into a fret position for a chord or note to make it sound like a lap steel for effect.

For some great lap steel sounds, don’t hesitate to listen to some Hank Williams songs with lap steel. He had one heck of a great lap steel guitar player in his band.

 

QM aka “ Jazzman” Jeff

 

 

 

A small correction, QM - Don Helms was Hank's incredible 'pedal steel' guitarist, a whole other incredible style!

Got me at the introduction!:

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[QuestionMark]

14 hours ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

A small correction, QM - Don Helms was Hank's incredible 'pedal steel' guitarist, a whole other incredible style!

Got me at the introduction!:

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Au contraire.  Check Don Helms Wikipedia.  Helms’ steel guitar may have had two necks, but lacked pedals like modern day steel guitars that didn’t come into prevalence until after Hank had passed.  Without pedals, Helms’ instrument was basically a double necked 8 string lap steel guitar with a console, definitely not a pedal steel guitar, although it’s 8 strings and console made it different than a regular 6 string lap steel.  It was made by Gibson per the wiki resource.   Although we definitely agree on the iconic great sounds he made!

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by QuestionMark

[BluesKing777]

4 hours ago, QuestionMark said:

Au contraire.  Check Don Helms Wikipedia.  Helms’ steel guitar may have had two necks, but lacked pedals like modern day steel guitars that didn’t come into prevalence until after Hank had passed.  Without pedals, Helms’ instrument was basically a double necked 8 string lap steel guitar with a console, definitely not a pedal steel guitar, although it’s 8 strings and console made it different than a regular 6 string lap steel.  It was made by Gibson per the wiki resource.   Although we definitely agree on the iconic great sounds he made!

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

 

 

Thanks QM!

Only time I have ever, ever danced on my own was an outdoor concert, can't remember who, Elvis Costello maybe, at a winery and the warm up music over the PA pre gig was the usual tripe that put everyone to sleep on the lawn until the roadie slipped on Hank and Honkytonkin'! And off my feets went!

 

Learned the notes for the slide part but no fun on my own!

Here tis'

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by BluesKing777

[QuestionMark]

27 minutes ago, BluesKing777 said:

 

Thanks QM!

Only time I have ever, ever danced on my own was an outdoor concert, can't remember who, Elvis Costello maybe, at a winery and the warm up music over the PA pre gig was the usual tripe that put everyone to sleep on the lawn until the roadie slipped on Hank and Honkytonkin'! And off my feets went!

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Honky Tonkin' is a great Hank song.  The steel guitar in there just chimes and whines and swings!  

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by QuestionMark

[BluesKing777]

33 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

Honky Tonkin' is a great Hank song.  The steel guitar in there just chimes and whines and swings!  

QM aka "Jazzman" Jeff

 

 

And Wiki say it is Jerry Byrd on steel - I always thought it was Don Helms! I have a cd of Hank's but it is a multi disc 'best of'. Assumed it was Don on all of 'em. Boing, wrong again....

No matter it is great, great, great, simple but great steel guitar. And worth learning as many of the notes as we can.😆

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by BluesKing777