2009 Gibson Les Paul Studio Deluxe

[neverkn0wsb357]

I bought this guitar at Guitar Center back in ‘09 and I have to say I’m disappointed in the build quality.

There’s been a few issues creeping up on the guitar, some are cosmetic, but others are a bit more troubling. 

This leaves me with three choices: I could sell the guitar, trade-it in, or fix it. 

This was my first big guitar purchase, I was pretty young and naive at the time and if I could do it again I would save up a bit extra and get exactly what I wanted. I don’t want to sell it and I don’t need a new guitar — I have this one, a Fender Telecaster made in Corona, CA, and a Jackson Randy Rhoads Pro 3, the latter of the two have aged well, the Randy Rhoads I bought in 2005, and the Fender in 2013 which is why I’m bummed that I have to repair the ‘09 Gibson, but I think that fixing it is probably the right choice.

What I was hoping to do is point out each issue, what I plan on doing about it, and (hopefully) get feedback from the community, to sanity check that that’s a sane thing to do (maybe there’s something better, maybe there’s something I didn’t think of).

I’ll post them as a series of posts under this thread, just so that this isn’t a big daunting post. I’m sure a lot of these issues are little things, and each is it’s own subject, so there’s probably no need to conflate it into a mega-post.

Edited December 6, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Fix typos, clarification

[neverkn0wsb357]

I think the issue that bothers me the most is that the wire fretting is oxidizing. It looks green on the edges, and through the wire. (Image attached). I’m not sure why it’s doing this, I store the guitar in its hardcover case when I’m done playing it, and when I clean it, I use a two microfiber cloths and Dunlop 65 formula one cloth to apply and the other to dry. Maybe this is my fault and I’m not supposed to use this on the fretboard, but the bottle says it’s a guitar cleaner, so I’m not sure what’s happening here. 

For this I was planning on buying a a guitar fret repair kit and replacing the wire. I’m just unsure of what gauge and material I should replace it with. Or maybe there’s something cool I can put in.  
 

What do you all think?

 

[neverkn0wsb357]

The next issue that I find annoying is that the pickup rings are warped and the screws that are in there are looking rusted. The pickups themselves also seem to be picking up some rust. (Pictures attached). I think this one was an easier fix, I was planning on buying these rings (https://www.gibson.com/Gear/Mounting/PRPR-035) and going to Home Depot and replacing the screws for new Nickel coated ones, or maybe ones that are coated with some rust protective barrier.

I’m not sure what to do about the rust on the pickups, I don’t think the pickups need replacing (but they might, I do have some issues with the sound cutting out, but I suspect I have a dirty switch, more on this in another post). But I was thinking of covering them, from an aesthetic point I actually don’t like that they’re exposed, and was thinking of putting these humbucker covers on them (https://www.gibson.com/Gear/Covers/PRPC-Bridge) in a Nickel finish. 
 

The big question here is that people claim to changes the sound (which I’m open to, I’ve never been able to dial it in and get the sound I want out of this guitar, which goes back to naivety I should’ve saved up and bought something I really loved in the first place).

So should I place a cover? Is there a way to remove the rust? Or should I replace the pickups outright?

If I replaced the pickups I would replace it with these https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/seth-lover or these https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/pearly-gates but I strongly suspect the pickups that come with the guitar are better than those anyway. So I’m unsure here, I love the sound quality in the audio samples in the links, but I don’t want to put something cheaper in.

[neverkn0wsb357]

The last actual issue is that the strap bolts are starting to look worn-down. (Picture attached). So I was thinking of upgrading them to a locking bolt, I have a locking bolt on the Fender and I love it. So I’m thinking of putting in some Schaller S Locks (https://www.guitarcenter.com/Schaller/S-Locks-Nickel-1500000211974.gc?cntry=us&source=4WWRWXML&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=[ADL] [GC] [LIA] [Curbside Pickup] - (Accessories - Fretted Instrument Accessories) - {MQ}&utm_term=4578297733882597&utm_content=[LIA] Accessories - Fretted Instrument Accessories (GC)&adlclid=ADL-8d5293a5-8075-492a-8302-7ddffb83961e)

My concern with this product is since the redesign from the U to the S shape, they went in favor of using an Allen Wrench to tighten instead of the Phillips head. Typically (and this might just be me) I associate the Allen Wrench with cheaper guitars, so I don’t want to put in something that will make the guitar feel cheaper. Any recommendations on brands would be appreciated.

I do plan on buying some screw wax so I don’t mess up the wood. Common issues I hear about this is that they’re too big and can have issues fitting in the case, or that the screw size is much bigger than what is currently on the guitar. I don’t want to split the wood over something as dumb as some screw locks, so any tips here would be helpful.

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Fix typos, and clarification

[neverkn0wsb357]

The non-aesthetic issue I’m having with the guitar is that when I use the treble in the switch at full volume the sound cuts out sometimes. This one is tricky, because I’m going to assume it’s a dirty switch or knob wiring and that I can spray some contact solution and maybe some silicon lubricant and hope it fixes it. But also because I’ve realized that I don’t actually know what a working full range of tones and sounds for the guitar are supposed to be, I just know what sounds I get when I pull the top up on the topmost volume knob, or how the sound cuts out when I have treble switched on and the second knob down on at 10 (I actually have to put it at 9, if I don’t want transition problems).

If the cleaner and lubricant don’t work, I’m actually not sure how I’m going to trouble shoot this issue. I am an engineer so theoretically I could open it up and figure it out, but I’d rather not have it come to that, because I’d basically be guessing. 

[neverkn0wsb357]

Oh I did have one more thing I wanted to do. I really wish my guitar had a pick guard. I think they look cool, it really completes the Les Paul look.  
 
So I was planning on buying this pick guard https://www.gibson.com/Gear/Pickguards/PRPG-030 (though really I want this one but I don’t think the color would go well with the rest of the guitar https://www.gibson.com/Gear/Pickguards/PRPG-050) and the mounting bracket https://www.gibson.com/Gear/Pickguards/PRPB

And just drilling the holes for it myself. I saw a video of someone else doing something similar so I don’t think it’s the craziest thing (if you check out the video, the guy puts painters tape to prevent from drilling too deeply), you basically let the drill bit do the work so you don’t split the wood. 
 

 

[neverkn0wsb357]

All in all I think these repairs/changes would cost me $200 bucks (more if I replace the pickups). 

I’m looking for a sanity check here. If anyone is alarmed by this, please let me know where you think it could go sideways and why. If you think this is foolish I would also want to know how and why. Obviously I would hate to ruin the guitar, I’ve thought of ways I could mess it up, and accounted for it: wax the screws, limit drilling depth, readjust the neck after the work by adjusting the trust rod.

But I’m sure there’s a million more ways something could go wrong, this is what I’m trying to surface and mitigate. So if you can think of something please let me know.

[neverkn0wsb357]

The contact cleaner and silicone lubricant came in the mail first, so I decided to see if dirty electronics were causing the sound to cut out when I used the volume knobs and the switch. 

I took the back panels off the guitar and used some duster to remove dust from the cavity before I got to cleaning the pots. I sprayed them down liberally, turning the knobs and flipping the switch to make sure it set in nicely. It was very effective, I can turn the volume dial all the way without the sound cutting out, as well as flipping the switch. In addition to that the tone knobs (which where heavy to turn) now glide easily. I always though the guitar was just like that, but after spraying those down they feel light now and the tone transition is velvety when I turn it - I’m really happy about that.

I did notice however, that after I sprayed the cleaner, that the tone pots felt like they were rubbing against something (which I figured something like that was bound to happen since they felt heavy but smooth) and I applied lubricant and turned the knobs as I did it until it didn’t feel that way. 

At one point I was unsure if it was inside the pots so I sprayed WD40 on the nut on the outside between the knob and the guitar, and while it did help, I’m not sure that was the source of the issue. 

I’ll be honest, I’m kinda shocked at the difference this made in the sound output. I am still worried about the lubrication on the tone pots / knobs, but overall very happy it was just a dirty electronics issue, didn’t even have to whip out the multimeter!

Edited December 7, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Clarification, grammar fixes

[kidblast]

Hi and Welcome to the forum.

There's nothing really alarming here.   Guitars need maintenance, the more you play them, the more frequently they need some TLC

lacking that, will cause some of the issues you are communicating here.  We can debate quality all day long, and Gibson has definitely had their fair share of real issues, but I don't see this has as much to do with Gibson's QC as it does speak to how to properly maintain the instrument

Oxidization on the frets is normal, remedied by a good polish of the frets.   If you have never done this, you are long overdue.  Google "Polishing Frets"  there's a few options  but the easiest one is the Frine Fret cleaner.  you can also use 0000 brass or steel wool, but definitely do some home work, there are precautions one must made using brass or steel wool before going into the process.  Frine is very safe works really good and comes with everything you need.  

I would also expect your fretboard needs some hydrating.  (this is always debated here on the forum, but it's really something that while not essential, does help keep the fretboard in good shape) There are products / procedures for this, google "Treating rosewood Fretboards"  Guitar Honey, F1 Nomad Oil, as well as some mineral oils you can buy at a hardware store.  The stuff made for just guitar fretboards are repackaging  of mineral oils that are also usable in the raw form.  Bore Oil, Linseed Oil, etc.   I'd still suggest one of the aforementioned products to be sure you're using something that wont harm the wood or the glue that secures the frets

Rust on the tips of screws is evident of some sort of moisture issue in your environment and/or climate.  Casing it will help, but over time, the moisture will have it's way with metal.  physics.  You can probably replace them easily enough  StewMac probably has screws that would be just right.

Dust and debris in pots, also normal, and over time, does need to be addressed.   Deoxit is the best product for this, there are detailed steps also on you tube for how to do this properly.  Anything made for contact cleaning will work but Deoxit is probably hands down the best of the lot.  I wouldn't use WD40 a lot, that will probably just collect more debris, 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by kidblast

[neverkn0wsb357]

Hey thanks for the advice. It's also good to know that the issues are par for the course and that there's technically nothing wrong with the guitar.

So you're thinking, that based on the photos I don't need to replace the frets but just polish them? That'd be ideal, I was thinking it'd be a pain to have to replace them but was willing to do this, so it's nice to know that this might be an alternative (and probably easier).

Also now that you mention it, the fretboard could do with some conditioning also.  Since a lot of it is mineral oils, I think I'd be reasonable to use the fractionated coconut oil? It's what I used to treat my cutting block in the kitchen and that's made out of some pretty nice wood and it hydrated nicely and I still have half a bottle left so I'm thinking one less thing to buy.  For sure it shouldn't harm the wood, but you bring up a good point about the wood glue. Since I was committed to swapping them out before I'll try see how it works out, if it doesn't work out I'll re-glue or replace the frets. Either way I'll probably post some before and after's, maybe it'll help someone out in the future.

I was also noticing that the strings were buzzing near the top and that the strings are touching the fretboard when I clamp the 1st fret and and the fret down at the base, so it's probably overbowed. I'll have to adjust anyway after working on the fretboard so that works out nicely.  I've never had to check or do that on a guitar before so it just didn't occur to me until I started thinking about fixing the guitar -- I'd simply figured if I put 9's on a Gibson it would buzz, and that was that.

Good tip about checking out StewMac, half the struggle has been trying to figure out what products are available and what to buy -- I'm not sure what size the screws are supposed to be but I can probably figure it out looking through the site. I should compare the prices against the Home Depot because I suspect the price per screw cheaper, but I'm also thinking the savings are probably not worth the time it would take me to compare them.

So yeah, I saw Deoxit mentioned in a couple placed and I read the product description and reviews out there and I couldn't figure out why (qualitatively or quantitatively) it was better. As far as I could tell there was just a bunch of marketing material directed towards musicians, which to me just looked  like a reason to charge a premium, so I just bought the cheapest generic one I could find that did the same thing and had solid reviews, I'm actually happy with it but I'll do a comparison next time I buy contact cleaner.

Just as a side-note I ended up getting the Dunlop Straplok Dual Design Strap Retainer System over the Schaller S Locks so I don't have to worry about Allen Wrenches, it was also higher rated and cheaper so I'm very excited to put them on when they arrive.

Edited December 11, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Grammar corrections, clarification

[Leonard McCoy]

I don't think this is a matter of build quality. This guitar is over a decade old and requires some maintenance. There is no need for any invasive work here.

• For the dirty frets I recommend using fret erasures. Easy to use and safe.
• The corroded pickup ring screws can be cleaned up (just take your time with a steel brush) or replaced entirely along with the pickup ring using original Gibson replacement parts. Don't fasten down the screws too much or you will bend and eventually crack the pickup ring.
• Other than that, you might want to condition the fretboard and clean the guitar in general. I recommend using Gibson's very own cleaning compounds for that (they are safe to use on nitro-finished guitars and easy to apply).

Edited December 12, 2020 by Leonard McCoy

[kidblast]

Unless you're using heavy gauge strings and have the hand grip of a Greek Mythological Warrior, I don't see the need to replace those frets after only 9 or 10 years. 

Any one of the myriad of fret cleaning processes and products will do.  I use Frine, but only as of recently.  Prior to that I did it old school with 0000 steel wool and all the prep work that goes with it. (covering the pickups with low tack tap, using fret guards purchased off Amazon to prevent scratching the fretboard. )   It was a messy procedure, the Frine is far less so.  Fret Erasures that L. McCoy mentions will work,  you may need to work em a bit since your frets definitely are due for a purging of what ever has accumulated..

I don't think you will find the proper screws at Home Depot.  Getting replacement parts as aforementioned is probably a good idea.  Stew Mac is the place where you can find most of this stuff.  You can try amazon too, but it's hard to know what you're getting or where it came from sometimes with Amazon.  Stew Mac will be more $  but you know what you're getting.

I don't know much about coconut oil. if you use something like this https://www.amazon.com/Music-Nomad-MN105-Fretboard-Conditioner/dp/B006WPGZAG   you know it's the  right stuff

There is also Guitar Honey  Both work good.  F1 I think edges out the Honey.  Just seems to work better for me.

I think Deoxit has become the defacto standard for any sort of contact cleaning with instruments and musical gear.  All of the other stuff does work, but  you're back at it in a few months  The Dexoit for me has been a one and done kind of experience/  It is more expensive, but in the end you use less b/c you're likely to not have to repeat the cleaning for a long while.

I have dunlops on one guitar,  I'm not fan of he size of the screw they require.    I'll take the S locks any day.  To each his own!!  As long as you got a strap lock you can rely on, you're good..

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by kidblast

[neverkn0wsb357]

Hey so I did a trial run with the fractionated coconut oil on a cheaper guitar (a Mitchell Acoustic) and I think it turned out well so I’ll be doing that to the Gibson when the Humbucker covers and the new pickup rings arrive in the mail so I can do it all in one go. I am excited. 

I guess I’ll find out about the screw issue with the Dunlop locks when they arrive in the mail, is it just a shitty screw? Or did it not fit? Can’t I re-use the old screw?

The Frine kit worked out really well, that was a great recommendation. I couldn’t be happier, it was easy, the polish nicely, the grime came off too, I’m excited because the Gibson frets are dirty AF.

The only thing I was left wondering was, should I have conditioned the fretboard first, then polished the frets?

The order I did things was, clean it off with Dunlop 65, polish the frets and remove the surrounding grime, and then conditioned the fretboard. It seemed to work out nicely, but there might be something a little longer term that that could mess up that I don’t know about.

Also I know it’s not a Gibson but I posted some photos if anyone wants to see how well the fractionated coconut oil worked. Since it was a test run for the products I’m going to use on the Gibson, I feel like it’s relevant. (I apologize about the photo quality, not sure why they’re being down-sampled when I upload it).

Edited December 17, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Clarification.

[neverkn0wsb357]

I have found out why the Dunlop’s screw isn’t a great default. It’s too long, which means I actually have to drill into the guitar or get a smaller shorter screw. 

What’s really unfortunate is that I can’t even reuse the existing screw because the head is ever so slightly bigger, which prevents it from going through the Dunlop base. 

That’s really disappointing. 

I am going to have to drill into the guitar to install the pick guard anyway, so maybe this will be good practice. Either way I don’t have the required drill bit size, so I’ll have to buy one. 

That went from really exciting to a real bummer.

While I had my tools out, I went ahead and adjusted the trust rod to fixing the buzzing strings. I am both happy and annoyed. The High E to A strings no longer buzz, neither at the top nor bottom. (I apologize if I have the terminology backward for the fretboard, when I say top I mean the first fret, and bottom I mean the 12 fret). Both sides have a little more than about 5 thousandths mm space around the 8th fret bar but definitely less than 15 thousandths mm. Which according to this video 

is what you want.

Now, however, the Low E string buzzes as early as the 7th fret. So I was reading up on this and apparently this is a common issue on some Gibsons? Some people say “replace the nut.” I’m not sure what “nut” they’re referring to, the one on the tuning peg? Others say that if that low E has “low action” which only makes sense to me if the bridge isn’t uniform.

So I did some digging around and found this video 

and I have a really crude ruler but I can tell the ends aren’t the same, so I’m ordering a better ruler and a smaller spanner (the spanner I have is for plumbing) and I expect that with that I should be able to solve that issue once and for all after all these years. 

It’ll be nuts to no longer have the buzzing, I’ve had it on this guitar for so many years. 

Edited December 22, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Grammar fixes, added content

[neverkn0wsb357]

Amazing! 

The guitar was at 3/64” 12th fret and 1/64” 1st fret for low E and 2/64” 12th fret and <1/64” 1st fret for high e which I read was pretty low and not suited for all playing styles.

So I raised it to 5/64” 12th fret and 2/64” 1st fret for low E and 3/64” 12th fret and 1/64” 1st fret for high e.

This is the best the guitar has ever sounded. I am stunned and delighted. Also a little remorseful that I hadn’t been curious enough before to figure this out. I was also really pleasantly surprised to find that I have PAF pickups in the guitar.

I also finally got around to polishing the frets, conditioning the fretboard, and replacing the pickup rings. The guitar looks amazing a too.

I can’t upload anymore photos in this thread so I made a Google Photos folder with the images in there, for those that are curious.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WYir4Cs5MUu7PULLA

Edited December 29, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Clarification, Photo Links

[Dub-T-123]

The PAF was used from like 1957-1962. The Studio will have “bustbuckers” or something like that

 

The nut is the slotted part at the end of the neck that guides the strings to the tuners. The depth of the slot is important for intonation and buzzing. The width of the slot is important for tuning stability. Most tuning issues are typically caused at the nut really, it is a major point of focus in setup work. There are lots of videos out there to help you set up a nut

[Dub-T-123]

With the Dunlop screw problem you can put the original screw into the chuck of a drill and use the drill to rotate the side of the screw head against a file. Just keep checking the progress and the screw head will be ground down to a smaller diameter that will fit in the new strap lock 

[neverkn0wsb357]

I thought PAF just referred to a line of pickups that were labeled “Patent Applied For” I didn’t realize they were referring to a specific time period. 

I mean I have a picture of the pickups in the Google photo link, they have the “zebra” pattern on the front (cream and black) but say “patent applied for” in the back. When I search for “burstbucker pickup” it doesn’t look like the pickup on the guitar, but if I search “zebra PAF pickups” they look identical to the ones in my guitar. That’s also kind of weird, by wouldn’t Gibson just establish a product line and label them?

Hey that’s a really good tip about the nut.  I’ll assess that next time I take the strings off, which will probably be sooner rather than later because I’ve received the Humbucker covers I want to put on. Do you have any tips for soldering that on?

Everyone seems to have different tips about putting wax or masking tape on the pickup so the poles don’t make direct contact with the cover. But no one says why one approach is better than one or another, or what the drawbacks or advantages are.

Edited December 31, 2020 by neverkn0wsb357
Clarification, Grammar

[Dub-T-123]

Gibson just puts that sticker on some new pickups as a cute “reissue” type thing. 
 

I haven’t put a cover on a humbucker but I would just follow the Seymour Duncan instructions personally. The wax potting stifles vibrations within the pickup to make it less prone to microphonic feedback. Microphonic feedback is almost always an annoying high pitched squeal, not the cool sounding type of feedback. 
 

The trade off is that unpotted pickups are generally described as sounding “better”. The wax potting supposedly subdues some high frequencies and/or harmonic content. 
 

If you play really loud all the time and have a lot of problems with squealing then wax potting is the way to go. If you don’t have problems with microphonic feedback then there isn’t much reason to do it. 
 

My SG had a squealing problem and rather than potting the pickups I solved the problem by placing a piece of foam under the pickups. The foam presses into the pickup and dampens vibrations that cause microphonic feedback.

 

Btw just on a random note, every time I see your username I get the song “Every Mother’s Son” by Humble Pie stuck in my head 

[neverkn0wsb357]

So I just went ahead and drilled into the holes and installed the Straplock. It wasn’t too bad, I measured out the depth beforehand and used painters tape to make sure I didn’t go too far in. If worked really well. I like how they clip on but I feel like they leave a big gap once the strap is on, but it’s not a dealbreaker. 

While I was at it, I went ahead and drilled the holes and installed the pickguard. I actually really like how it looks, but I’m annoyed because it didn’t fit quite right. Which I knew was a possibility given the reviews on the product (https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/all-hardware-and-parts-by-instrument/electric-guitar-parts/electric-guitar-pickguards/pickguard-for-gibson-les-paulandreg.html). It states the dimensions on the product page, and after I measured it out I was aware that I might have a slight gap. The offset is like a millimeter so it’s not too bad. No regrets, I think it looks strictly better than before, worst comes to worst I can always buy a different pickguard.

I’m still waiting for soldering wire to come in the mail. That way I can solder on the pickup covers. But I’m very happy with the changes I’ve been making to the guitar they feel strictly better than before.

[Dub-T-123]

Make sure you use a powerful soldering iron for that ideally with a large tip. You want high heat in a short amount of time. Btw don’t remember if they mentioned it in the SD article or not but when you’re soldering plated metals like that it is usually very helpful to scuff up the area where you want solder to flow with sandpaper before soldering. Also helps to put a little flux on the scuffed up area. Especially if your iron is a bit underpowered you will want all the help possible. Forgive me if you’re already a soldering expert

 

I’m not sure how accurate that pickguard is but the vintage Les Paul pickguards had a gap below the neck pickup ring. You can see the gap in this pic of my LP. If it looks like that then they must be copying the vintage pickguard