Epi wanted for a newbie as a gift

[Rabs]

Just now, mihcmac said:

Of course if you get into a Brain Stew   Billie also was fond of Strats.

Id get her a Red Special but I think I said before.. Probably a bit too far for someone who is still in the first year of playing, When we go and try some out I will be interested to see how much she has learned so far.

[mihcmac]

18 minutes ago, Rabs said:

Id get her a Red Special but I think I said before.. Probably a bit too far for someone who is still in the first year of playing, When we go and try some out I will be interested to see how much she has learned so far.

How about an SG Junior style HB DC60 £166

Edited April 7, 2023 by mihcmac

[Rabs]

1 minute ago, mihcmac said:

How about an SG Junior style £166

Yes, That is on the list.. She liked the SG shape. But I do want 2 pickups at least on her first guitar... So I would go for the SG Faded or whatever the Epi one is called

Edited April 7, 2023 by Rabs

[mihcmac]

25 minutes ago, Rabs said:

Yes, That is on the list.. She liked the SG shape. But I do want 2 pickups at least on her first guitar... So I would go for the SG Faded or whatever the Epi one is called

I do love my SG Classic

https://www.epiphone.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/EPI9YL50/Worn-Cherry

[Rabs]

Would probably go for this if we went for and SG... £399.. Its probably at the high end for what I have in mind but if she likes it im sure I can stretch to that,

https://www.pmtonline.co.uk/epiphone-sg-standard-cherry

 

 

[Dub-T-123]

I realize this is not much of a relevant concern here in this thread but since it’s been brought up and I’m curious about it..

 

mihcmac seems sure that the Epi SG Standard has a solid mahogany body. Obviously there is no mahogany in a modern Chinese Epi but a type of wood which looks kinda similar enough. 
 

Has anyone actually seen a recent Epi SG Standard that isn’t veneered on the top and back? Even the current page on the official Epi website clearly shows veneer

 

https://www.epiphone.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/EPIJ1X839/Heritage-Cherry

 

if you look at current stock at sweetwater they’re all photographed with a glare obscuring the bevels. The most detailed shots appear to show the veneer but I’m looking for it so it’s hard to say 

[Dub-T-123]

Looking back at michmac’s reply he mentions his classic is a two piece body with center seam. Again obviously not mahogany but his guitar in question is painted a solid color so there would be no reason to use the veneer on that model. It is safe to assume that their is no veneer on the black or white standards either.

 

I’ve looked at every photo of a current Epi SG Standard that I could find with a focus on places like sweetwater that post photos of the individual guitars they currently have in stock. I have yet to find a single cherry example that isn’t veneered. Sweetwater is definitely not trying to highlight the seam in their photos 

 

So if they’re making them without veneers, I don’t think anyone on the internet has seen one yet. As far as I can tell no dealers have them in stock yet. Probably safe to say that the current Epi SG standard in cherry indeed does have a veneered body

[Rabs]

1 hour ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Looking back at michmac’s reply he mentions his classic is a two piece body with center seam. Again obviously not mahogany but his guitar in question is painted a solid color so there would be no reason to use the veneer on that model. It is safe to assume that their is no veneer on the black or white standards either.

 

I’ve looked at every photo of a current Epi SG Standard that I could find with a focus on places like sweetwater that post photos of the individual guitars they currently have in stock. I have yet to find a single cherry example that isn’t veneered. Sweetwater is definitely not trying to highlight the seam in their photos 

 

So if they’re making them without veneers, I don’t think anyone on the internet has seen one yet. As far as I can tell no dealers have them in stock yet. Probably safe to say that the current Epi SG standard in cherry indeed does have a veneered body

I was just looking at this one on the Epi site.. You can see the bevels on the last picture..  Looks like it is actually a proper Mahogany body.. Or some kind of Mahogany anyway.

https://www.epiphone.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/EPIQGY439/Vintage-Cherry-Satin

Edited April 8, 2023 by Rabs

[Dub-T-123]

Rabs that’s one of the most confounding things about it…

 

This seems to be considered by Epiphone sortof a premium feature for translucent finished SGs. If you look at less expensive examples, the veneer is forgone and the overall appearance is less similar to mahogany. However I have yet to find a single photo of a current Epi SG Standard in cherry without a veneer on front and back

Edited April 8, 2023 by Dub-T-123

[Dub-T-123]

However premium Epi considers this feature, personally I find it very unattractive. Also, I have been looking at a lot of these pics today and the bevels on the back of the Epi SG are absolutely atrocious to SG lovers. You barely even get a roundover in the horns, there’s no bevel to speak of

[Rabs]

4 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Rabs that’s one of the most confounding things about it…

 

This seems to be considered by Epiphone sortof a premium feature for translucent finished SGs. If you look at less expensive examples, the veneer is forgone and the overall appearance is less similar to mahogany. However I have yet to find a single photo of a current Epi SG Standard in cherry without a veneer on front and back

Yes it is odd.. The faded and specials seems to be just solid mahogany and the Standards have veneers?? Maybe some people like it..

[Dub-T-123]

Well as you know it’s a huge (marketing) stretch to call it mahogany. There is swietenia macrophylla and two other species in that genus. The most similar generally accepted substitute is khaya or African mahogany which is not genetically related but similar in appearance. Then as you get further down the line you have Sapelle and Nyatoh etc which are not related to mahogany but similar in appearance 

 

I don’t need to dna test my guitar for it to sound good or anything but I’m also just going to call it what it is because these different materials are not comparable in terms of price 

[Rabs]

1 minute ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Well as you know it’s a huge (marketing) stretch to call it mahogany. There is swietenia macrophylla and two other species in that genus. The most similar generally accepted substitute is khaya or African mahogany which is not genetically related but similar in appearance. Then as you get further down the line you have Sapelle and Nyatoh etc which are not related to mahogany but similar in appearance 

 

I don’t need to dna test my guitar for it to sound good or anything but I’m also just going to call it what it is because these different materials are not comparable in terms of price 

Only if they were calling it Genuine Mahogany which is the south American stuff.. Im pretty sure they used to state Genuine several years back but havent for ages.

For me Sapele is close enough..  In some ways its better as its harder than Genuine Mahogany and so makes for a stronger neck.

You also get Lauan which is Asian Mahogany aka Meranti which also can look quite nice. Theres so many different types of it from dark to light, soft to hard.

Like the wood I have for my up coming build.. Thats Sapele..  Looks good enough for me.. 

[Dub-T-123]

I totally understand that but I also understand that the underlying intent was to pass off a cheaper product as something else. Not saying one is inferior to the other in terms of musical qualities but it is what it is. Marketers using semantics to mislead customers.

[Rabs]

9 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

I totally understand that but I also understand that the underlying intent was to pass off a cheaper product as something else. Not saying one is inferior to the other in terms of musical qualities but it is what it is. Marketers using semantics to mislead customers.

Im not sure they have a choice.. South American Mahoganies I think are either illegal to use or heavily controlled like Brazilian Rosewood.. Im not sure anyone uses Genuine Mahogany any more. There may be some old stock out there floating about but for big companies like Gibson they probably cant use it any more apart from maybe on the odd special run.

You do know that most people really dont even care about this sort of detail though.. Its only guitar nerds like us  who even care about this sort of stuff at all  😄  

Edited April 8, 2023 by Rabs

[Dub-T-123]

I know man I can’t stress enough that I understand. I prefer to use words in a literal sense and describe my intent as accurately as possible. It has been nothing but harmful to my musical instrument enterprises lol

 

if I were to build an instrument out of meranti I would call it meranti. I have no use for semantics like “genuine”. Those are marketing inventions which I do not like to be mislead by or use

[Rabs]

10 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

I know man I can’t stress enough that I understand. I prefer to use words in a literal sense and describe my intent as accurately as possible. It has been nothing but harmful to my musical instrument enterprises lol

 

if I were to build an instrument out of meranti I would call it meranti. I have no use for semantics like “genuine”. Those are marketing inventions which I do not like to be mislead by or use

I do as well.  When I make guitars I say exactly what they are..  BUT also I realised from my time trying to sell them that its much easier to say Mahogany or you end up having to explain the difference which just gets really boring..  So you just say Mahogany or African Mahogany and if someone asks what type, you can tell them.. If they dont, they probably dont care or even want to know  😄 

I will never forget the first guitar I ever sold. The guy was so besotted with the way it looked, played and sounded. He handed me £700 and didnt ask me a single question about the pickups or what the wood was or even the scale length.. He just liked it and bought it.. For a lot of people its as simple as that..
 

And yes. I know you understand  😄  

Edited April 9, 2023 by Rabs

[Dub-T-123]

You sold your first guitar to a reasonable person. Most guitarists are flat out ignorant about everything including music theory history etc etc

[Dub-T-123]

Frankly at the time I started building stompboxes and everything I could have been a major brand by now. My main flaws were my absolute refusal to use gimmickry and my disorganization caused by drug/alcohol use. I’m sure my customers would agree sadly lol

[Rabs]

1 hour ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Frankly at the time I started building stompboxes and everything I could have been a major brand by now. My main flaws were my absolute refusal to use gimmickry and my disorganization caused by drug/alcohol use. I’m sure my customers would agree sadly lol

Lol.. Tell me about it...  I had to constantly explain my prices and what hardware I choose to use... It became so frustrating. I was trying to offer reasonable prices and not pretend that everything was top end and my wood was made from magical unicorn s**t....

I thought people would want that.. Honest pricing and honest guitars made with decent hardware and woods. But as it goes, people seem to want the myth and the legend... Its why, while there is a market for hand made goods, its tiny compared to the people who really just want Gibson and Fenders cos thats what their heroes played...

And one of the reasons I stopped...  I just hate the way the market is led by that nonsense and when you add that you can actually buy a pretty decent guitar at a pretty decent price these days, it leaves little room for people like me.

But hey.. No one can say I didnt try huh 🙂 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Rabs

[Dub-T-123]

I could try to explain it more but it just annoys me. We both tried and we are both artists but we just aren’t the right thing lol

[Rabs]

2 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

I could try to explain it more but it just annoys me. We both tried and we are both artists but we just aren’t the right thing lol

Yeah it is annoying..  As it goes, I have never had a return or a single complaint about the guitars I sold..  Pretty much everyone who saw them liked them.. But yet, that still seems to mean nothing unless you have a Twitter, FB, Instagram etc etc etc account and as you say are willing to play "that" game..  Which I am so not and never will be.

I even got an email from that guy who bought my first guitar a month or so ago with a clip of him playing it telling me it was getting a lot of attention... And he bought it like 5-6 years ago now...

Anyway.. Enough of that... It is what it is... 

[Rabs]

Ok.. So we have a win here I think.

We went to two different shops today..  The first one we tried out an Epi Sg..  But as it was an inspired by Gibson one it was almost £500  😮  In that shop the had the Schecter that she liked and a few other super strat types but I just wasnt happy. There was an Ibanez we tried, It was ok but nothing special.. They did have some really nice semi hollows at a decent price, some I really liked but Betssie didnt like the shape at all (probably looks like an old mans guitar to her).

So we went to the second shop, Instantly there was another Ibanez which was B stock so a great price but it had a locking nut and proper floyd system with micro tuners on the back.. So I just didnt think it was right for a first timer, it will just confuse her. We also looked at a BEAUTIFUL Squire Tele that was sparkly red and had two humbuckers and a matching coloured headstock.

But in the end this is what we wend for. (and man how she has changed in a year huh). And I am REALLY happy with that choice. If only I had such a nice guitar when I started out.

Also got a nice hybrid soft/hard case..  And when it came to the amp. I was gonna go with a Marshall MG15fx which is what I had for many years BUT, in all honesty I thought it sounded awful.  So we ended up with a Fender Champion 20 I think.. Man that thing sounds great.

So all done..  Next up if she carries on playing I will make her any guitar she wants.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Rabs

[merciful-evans]

Nice choice. I would never have expected a Wilshire. 

Mihcmac would surely approve. 

[Rabs]

2 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

Nice choice. I would never have expected a Wilshire. 

Mihcmac would surely approve. 

Yeah I was not expecting that either. I thought we were gonna end up with an SG...  I know she liked the super strat shape but most of them had whammy bars.. The cheap ones were awful and the one that was really nice, as said it had a locking nut and the full system.. Which I thought was just too much for a newbie.

If I had gone and chosen one without her I think I would have gone for this

 

But when I saw the Wilshire and she said she liked the shape, it was down to that or the humbucker Tele and I thought the Wilshire was cooler.. Both were quite nice guitars.