aldiablo Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Hi guys, I’m thinking of swapping out the stock tuners on my J45 for a set of white/cream plastic button tuners. I’m not loving the stock ones. I think they might be causing the tuning to slip a little more than it should. Maybe they’re a slightly faulty set or something. I do quite like the look of button tuners too. A search online has brought up Gibson, Gotoh and Kluson, with Gibson being the most expensive by a way. Has anyone anyway recommendations? Are the Gibson’s worth the extra money? Any other brands worth looking at? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 6 hours ago, aldiablo said: Hi guys, I’m thinking of swapping out the stock tuners on my J45 for a set of white/cream plastic button tuners. I’m not loving the stock ones. I think they might be causing the tuning to slip a little more than it should. Maybe they’re a slightly faulty set or something. I do quite like the look of button tuners too. A search online has brought up Gibson, Gotoh and Kluson, with Gibson being the most expensive by a way. Has anyone anyway recommendations? Are the Gibson’s worth the extra money? Any other brands worth looking at? Thanks I swapped out the tuners on my J-50. It had the individual Kluson tuners with "butterbean" knobs.... they were fine, but were old and starting to get too hard for me to twist with my arthritis. I had a set of Gold Grover Tulip tuners just laying around.... they're MUCH easier to twist, and I like the way they look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I love the big gold Grovers on my old J-45, but some people don't like them. My J-15 has the mini Grovers, and they're small, but work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Show us which ones you have now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, Murph said: I love the big gold Grovers on my old J-45, but some people don't like them. My J-15 has the mini Grovers, and they're small, but work fine. Murph, are "Mini-Grovers" the same as those used on the 12-Strings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 They’re just the stock metal Grover kidney beans that come on a J45 Standard that are on it at the moment . I don’t mind them too much look wise but like I say it feels like they’re not doing they’re job like they should and if I’m gonna change them I do quite like button tuners for the old school look. I’ve considered tulips too yeah. I think them or buttons would look cool but buttons might just pip it. I’ve very long but very slender fingers so the small size doesn’t bother me too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 1 hour ago, DanvillRob said: Murph, are "Mini-Grovers" the same as those used on the 12-Strings? I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) Pay attention to the post and bushing diameters in any swap out. A post with a little too much room will go off the vertical/perpendicular plane under tension and become hard to turn. Spend more for better. Edited February 12, 2023 by jedzep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 I saw those mini grovers online and wasn’t sure if they’d be suitable. I’m thinking the Gibson brand will probably be safest. The guy in my local guitar store has a few sets too. Has anyone ever used them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 I just swapped out some on a L00. I used these - Golden Age Restoration Tuners for Solid Peghead Guitar with Scallop-end - StewMac They almost covered up the old holes, close enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 28 minutes ago, Murph said: I don't know. I know the tuners on my 12-String are smaller than the standard ones..... just don't know the size of the "mini". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 They look great Dave F. They’re the kind of thing I’m thinking of but single individual tuners rather than 3 in a bed. I’m thinking the Gibson brand ones would fit the holes as it’s a Gibson guitar but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe Grovers would be better as it came with Grovers. Can’t see any button Grovers but they have tulips. Maybe I’ll chance the Gibson buttons though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 Check the other Golden Age options from the link Dave put up . I use their single set’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 I’ll have to look for a seller outside of the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversurfer Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) I went with Waverly - expensive but worth it in my opinion. Edited February 13, 2023 by Silversurfer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 They look great Silvesurfer. Just looking them up and they are pretty expensive alright. Not hugely available in Europe but there are places that sell them. Wasn’t planning on spending so much though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 8 hours ago, Silversurfer said: I went with Waverly - expensive but worth it in my opinion. I’ve put them on a few of mine. Great tuners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) I’ve got Waverlys on one guitar and Golden Age Restoration tuners on my other two, including my J-35. All work well and are well-made. And, yes, Waverlys are pricey but worth it. Check out JP Guitars in Bristol, UK, for both. https://www.jp-guitars.co.uk/sales/parts_and_spares/tuners/golden_age/golden_age.htm I’ve ordered other things from them and they’ve always been fast and trouble-free. Determine whether you’ll need conversion bushings, though. Edited February 13, 2023 by dhanners623 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 13, 2023 Author Share Posted February 13, 2023 Thanks dhanners623 I’ll check that out. Unfortunately though because of Brexit items from the UK are now subject to custom tax ☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will97 Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) I've been in your predicament of wanting a change up from the stock grovers on GIbsons many many times. For the most part, the stock Grovers (kidney bean tuners and Gibson/Grover deluxe tulips/butterbeans) keep tune very well inherently due to the self centering mechanical advantage that the big hex-screw bushings provide over the smaller vintage style push-in bushings that rely on accurate fixing screw placement in order to center the tuning post within the bushing. There will inevitably be some 'backlash/slop' in the tuner action if you go the vintage route, which is all part of the vintage experience! Sometimes they can be solid and tune to perfection, but I found that they are not as consistent as modern tuners. If you want butterbean bean tuners without any conversion bushings and the exact footprint of the original stock grovers, you have 2 options: 1) Replace the tuning machines entirely: https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Product/PMMH-060/PMMH-060 are your best option by far. I don't believe there are a lot of options specifically for tuners with white butter beans that are not vintage spec. The gibson branded tuners will fit perfectly in the the original holes without any conversion posts. Keep in mind that when you switch to these style tuners, you have a top screw hole that should be drilled for each tuner as well. 2) Replace the buttons of your grovers (if you just want an aesthetic change) with hipshot replacements. You can easily unscrew the kidney bean buttons on your grovers with the washer from the side and replace them with hipshot buttons. I made the switch on my CJ-165 which has mini-grovers to hipshot tulips and they work great on regular grovers as well. The link to hipshot buttons https://hipshotproducts.com/products/guitar-tuner-buttons, you should be able to find white buttons somewhere if you search hard enough. Here is a picture of the tulip hipshots. If you are ultra picky like me and prefer a more historically accurate and vintage look to your headstocks, you will have to go another route that is a little more involved. Our kind friends previously suggested waverlys/GOLDEN AGE 3 on a plate or 3x3 tuners which are all great options. However, all of them will involve conversion bushings for most of these vintage style tuners as the hole will be a bit too large to fit these tuners. They are very easy to source and usually you will just need a 10.5mm to 10mm bushing. https://www.armstrongmusic.co.uk/hardware-parts-c1/tuning-machines-c28/parts-for-tuning-machines-c30/kluson-push-fit-tuning-machine-adapter-bushings-set-of-6-usa-size-p1977/s2659 Here are some pictures of a recent conversion from the modern Gibson deluxe (same as Grover) to vintage style klusons on a Les Paul. Before and After Note the smaller push-in bushings. This minor aesthetic is the primary reason why I switched from modern to vintage style tuners. I used the 10mm conversion bushing and it was a direct drop in. There will be imprints left from the larger washers that can be easily sanded and polished out. Dave F's L-00 example has some witness lines from the original grovers that could be polished out but he has so many other wonderful instruments I am sure this minor detail does not bother him! Edited February 13, 2023 by will66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stokes Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I was thinking about the Waverly open back style on my J150. Do they make "drop in" replacements? I dont want to start reaming out the holes or drilling new screw holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 58 minutes ago, stokes said: I was thinking about the Waverly open back style on my J150. Do they make "drop in" replacements? I dont want to start reaming out the holes or drilling new screw holes. They have all the dimensions on their website so you can determine. I’ve put some of them on my Gibsons without modifications and using the same ferrules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldiablo Posted February 15, 2023 Author Share Posted February 15, 2023 Wow thanks so much will97 that was all just super helpful. I was thinking of changing out the whole tuning machines so those Gibson brand ones look like the best bet if the sizings will be correct. I was looking at them ones anyway and my local guitar store has them in stock. I’m gonna drop it into my guitar guy for him to have a look and see what he thinks of the Grovers on it. If I am changing them he’ll be doing it. I am not practical or handy. I just play music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will97 Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 5 hours ago, aldiablo said: Wow thanks so much will97 that was all just super helpful. I was thinking of changing out the whole tuning machines so those Gibson brand ones look like the best bet if the sizings will be correct. I was looking at them ones anyway and my local guitar store has them in stock. I’m gonna drop it into my guitar guy for him to have a look and see what he thinks of the Grovers on it. If I am changing them he’ll be doing it. I am not practical or handy. I just play music! Solid choice! They will be a direct drop in from the original Grover romantics. All your guitar tech needs to do is drill for the top hole for each tuner and you are set. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 A couple years ago I got one of the newer 1942 SJ Banner with the aged top. The unbranded tuners looked like Waverly's but were not up to that quality. Didn't hold, squeaked. The Waverly's were a drop-in. No mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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