ADClope Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Was just clicking around on Chicago Music Exchange for fun and came across this guitar. I realized that I really am very confused on the different model lines and naming that Gibson uses. https://reverb.com/item/66913661-gibson-memphis-historic-series-61-es-335-kalamazoo-vintage-burst This guitar for instance. Serial 80689. I'm not sure how to read this as far as deciphering a year of manufacture? I asked the guy at CME what year it was and he said he did not know. That he would have to reach out to Gibson to find out. So I asked him to. He came back and said it appears to be a 2018. I googled it and find the "Kalamazoo" 61' on 2019 models but no 2018's. Also, where would this have been made? Memphis, or at the Custom Shop in Nashville? I think that Memphis shuttered in April of 2019, right? Also what's the difference between the Memphis and Memphis Historic in this case? I apologize for all the questions, it's just kind of confusing how they do it - to me anyways. Thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 I think I can help a little. (and I agree Gibson models and descriptions can be very confusing). From the serial number we can tell that it is a Custom Shop Guitar built in 2018 for the 2019 model year. It is a recreation of a guitar built in 1961 in Kalamazoo. Before they closed the plant in Memphis all ES style guitars were built there (regular and Custom Shop) the Custom Shop in Nashville built all other custom shop guitars that weren't ES style. Les Paul Customs, SG Customs etc. were all built in Nashville's Custom Shop, but anything semi hollow was built in Memphis until they shut Memphis down. Memphis Historic just means they were trying to recreate a guitar from the past by finding an old guitar and then carefully measuring everything and trying to use the same materials that the old one had and copying it very accurately. So, the big question - Are you going to buy it? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10PoundLester Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 It is a beautiful instrument. If I had the disposable income it would require for purchase I'd be all over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADClope Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 5 hours ago, Twang Gang said: I think I can help a little. (and I agree Gibson models and descriptions can be very confusing). From the serial number we can tell that it is a Custom Shop Guitar built in 2018 for the 2019 model year. It is a recreation of a guitar built in 1961 in Kalamazoo. Before they closed the plant in Memphis all ES style guitars were built there (regular and Custom Shop) the Custom Shop in Nashville built all other custom shop guitars that weren't ES style. Les Paul Customs, SG Customs etc. were all built in Nashville's Custom Shop, but anything semi hollow was built in Memphis until they shut Memphis down. Memphis Historic just means they were trying to recreate a guitar from the past by finding an old guitar and then carefully measuring everything and trying to use the same materials that the old one had and copying it very accurately. So, the big question - Are you going to buy it? Ah, okay, that clears things up a bit - thank you so much for explaining all of that! Would absolutely love to, but struggle a bit with the custom shop cost, as I'm sure others do. I mainly stick with the USA standard lines on nearly all of my Gibson's/Fenders. Custom Shop stuff is pretty much "bucket list" for me, maybe someday. But the naming and origins make a lot more sense now, thanks Twang! 5 hours ago, Twang Gang said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADClope Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 Maybe a stupid question, but with the Memphis factory closing in 2019, I imagine several employees unfortunately were let go... What would that mean, if anything, for the quality of a made in 2018 ES type guitar? Would this one still be a high quality instrument? Or did they have quality issues in the final year(s) there? I've seen a lot of threads on Nashville vs Memphis, but never really read them. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmachine Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 7 hours ago, Twang Gang said: I think I can help a little. (and I agree Gibson models and descriptions can be very confusing). From the serial number we can tell that it is a Custom Shop Guitar built in 2018 for the 2019 model year. It is a recreation of a guitar built in 1961 in Kalamazoo. Before they closed the plant in Memphis all ES style guitars were built there (regular and Custom Shop) the Custom Shop in Nashville built all other custom shop guitars that weren't ES style. Les Paul Customs, SG Customs etc. were all built in Nashville's Custom Shop, but anything semi hollow was built in Memphis until they shut Memphis down. Memphis Historic just means they were trying to recreate a guitar from the past by finding an old guitar and then carefully measuring everything and trying to use the same materials that the old one had and copying it very accurately. So, the big question - Are you going to buy it? Twang, I don't think you are correct about where it was made. I think you are right about the date, but the ad says Memphis and I think the orange label inside the body will confirm that it was made in Memphis, And that would also confirm that it is not a Custom Shop model. Which is by no means a bad thing. Because of the difficulty of otherwise identifying these models, the seller *should* show a legible pic of the COA and the orange label. And if they gave it, the inspection tag. That would clear up a lot! 1 hour ago, ADClope said: Maybe a stupid question, but with the Memphis factory closing in 2019, I imagine several employees unfortunately were let go... What would that mean, if anything, for the quality of a made in 2018 ES type guitar? Would this one still be a high quality instrument? Or did they have quality issues in the final year(s) there? I've seen a lot of threads on Nashville vs Memphis, but never really read them. Thanks! Not much of the skilled labor actually left Memphis before the closure, so I've seen no drop off in quality of the last of production there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 12 hours ago, Wmachine said: Twang, I don't think you are correct about where it was made I didn't say where I thought it was made. But being built in 2018 before the Memphis plant shut down I too believe it would've been built in Memphis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmachine Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 11 hours ago, Twang Gang said: I didn't say where I thought it was made. But being built in 2018 before the Memphis plant shut down I too believe it would've been built in Memphis. You said "From the serial number we can tell that it is a Custom Shop Guitar" . No, it was not a Custom Shop Guitar. The Custom Shop is in Nashville. There was never a Custom Shop in Memphis. The serial number is a Historic/Reissue number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADClope Posted May 3, 2023 Author Share Posted May 3, 2023 What are you guys' opinions on quality of instrument compared between the Custom Shop in Nashville or a historic/reissue such as this 61 from Memphis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10PoundLester Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 (edited) On 5/2/2023 at 6:14 PM, ADClope said: What are you guys' opinions on quality of instrument compared between the Custom Shop in Nashville or a historic/reissue such as this 61 from Memphis? I have a 2018 Memphis 335 and I love it. It is a great guitar. Edited May 4, 2023 by 10PoundLester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wmachine Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 On 5/2/2023 at 8:14 PM, ADClope said: What are you guys' opinions on quality of instrument compared between the Custom Shop in Nashville or a historic/reissue such as this 61 from Memphis? I can't speak from personal experience with new Custom Shop ES models, but I really don't think there would be any appreciable difference. They should be very comparable. Should come down to what feels and sounds better to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted May 4, 2023 Share Posted May 4, 2023 Each guitar on its own merits regardless of where & when manufactured. I have a Memphis built 2015 ES-339. Its excellent. I also played some 2014 versions which were 'poorer' in terms if playability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Stone Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 (edited) On 4/30/2023 at 5:56 PM, Wmachine said: Twang, I don't think you are correct about where it was made. I think you are right about the date, but the ad says Memphis and I think the orange label inside the body will confirm that it was made in Memphis, And that would also confirm that it is not a Custom Shop model. Which is by no means a bad thing. Because of the difficulty of otherwise identifying these models, the seller *should* show a legible pic of the COA and the orange label. And if they gave it, the inspection tag. That would clear up a lot! Not much of the skilled labor actually left Memphis before the closure, so I've seen no drop off in quality of the last of production there. Yeah Gibson ES-335s from those years had a glued paper label in the upper F hole that indicates what year it is as well as the serial no. Also those years included a CoE in the case. And it's just a matter of matching up the serial no. on the CoE with the serial no. on the label in the F hole. My 2019 is awesome as far playability, sound and build quality. Edited June 26, 2023 by G Stone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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