Help identifying an inherited guitar

[oompahlumpa]

Hello, when my grandfather passed many years ago I inherited his acoustic guitar.  Not thinking much about it I put it away in the attic as I was not into acoustics.  Anyway not long ago I busted it out to see what was in there and I found it was a Gibson acoustic.  I have no idea what model as there are no markings, serial numbers, or anything.  Would any of y'all be able to help me identify this old guitar?  I know that the tuning machines have been replaced but other than that I have no idea anything about this.  I need to get it in the hands of a good luthier as there are some stress cracks on the back of the body and the bridge is lifting a bit from having heavy strings on it.  I have since loosened the strings so it wouldn't lift anymore.

 

[Dave F]

Looks to be an LG2 or LG3. If there is no stamped s/n on the back of the headstock, see if there's an ink stamped FON number on the neck block inside the guitar. It may be faint.

 

 

[QuestionMark]

It might be a J-45.  The upper bout looks to be smaller than the lower bout like on a J-45 rather than on a LG3 (or faded LG2) where the upper bout is more the same size as the lower bout.  A  J-45 is more bell shaped like the one in the photo than a LG3.  Unless it’s the camera angle  making the upper bout look a lot smaller than the lower bout.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

[oompahlumpa]

13 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

It might be a J-45.  The upper bout looks to be smaller than the lower bout like on a J-45 rather than on a LG3 (or faded LG2) where the upper bout is more the same size as the lower bout.  A  J-45 is more bell shaped like the one in the photo than a LG3.  Unless it’s the camera angle  making the upper bout look a lot smaller than the lower bout.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

I can't see anything like you mentioned.

[oompahlumpa]

14 minutes ago, QuestionMark said:

It might be a J-45.  The upper bout looks to be smaller than the lower bout like on a J-45 rather than on a LG3 (or faded LG2) where the upper bout is more the same size as the lower bout.  A  J-45 is more bell shaped like the one in the photo than a LG3.  Unless it’s the camera angle  making the upper bout look a lot smaller than the lower bout.

QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff

After looking at some pictures that really looks like an LG3 to me.  Do you have any idea where I could find period-correct tuning machines?

[Dave F]

14 minutes ago, oompahlumpa said:

After looking at some pictures that really looks like an LG3 to me.  Do you have any idea where I could find period-correct tuning machines?

Depends on the year but it's not a Banner era so it's some era of the Kluson's

 

 

[Dave F]

Check lower bout width. The J45/50 will be about 16". The LG's will be a little over 14". I usually use 6" width of the bridge to estimate bout widths.

[BluesKing777]

Here is an LG3, perhaps you could shoot a few more photos of your guitar standing up straight, back and front and close ups, like these photos below? Make it easier to judge the different bout sizes...

 

http://www.vintagemandolin.com/51gibsonlg3_7038_17.html

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

[zombywoof]

As noted just measure the lower bout.  If it is 14.25" (or there abouts) it is an LG3.  Based on the logo and pickguard I would guess it was built between 1947 to 1955. If you cannot see any indication of an FON on the neck block that would narrow the build date down to 1947 into 1948 as it was not all that uncommon to run into early block letter logo Gibsons lacking an FON.  

If it should turn out to be a J50 the rectangular bridge points to a pre-1950 instrument.

Edited June 2, 2023 by zombywoof

[zombywoof]

10 hours ago, Dave F said:

Depends on the year but it's not a Banner era so it's some era of the Kluson's

 

 

My 1946 LG2 had open gear tuners while I had a 1947 LG2 in the house for a bit which sported open gear waffle peen Klusons.  That would have been the last year though for Kluson open gear tuners on a Gibson.  If the guitar still had its original enclosed tuners you could narrow at least the build period down by features.  There is a site out there somewhere which does a really good job of nailing down the differences between 1940s and 1950s Kluson enclosed tuners.

Edited June 2, 2023 by zombywoof

[fortyearspickn]

Not a plastic bridge.  

[oompahlumpa]

2 hours ago, fortyearspickn said:

Not a plastic bridge.  

???

[oompahlumpa]

4 hours ago, zombywoof said:

As noted just measure the lower bout.  If it is 14.25" (or there abouts) it is an LG3.  Based on the logo and pickguard I would guess it was built between 1947 to 1955. If you cannot see any indication of an FON on the neck block that would narrow the build date down to 1947 into 1948 as it was not all that uncommon to run into early block letter logo Gibsons lacking an FON.  

If it should turn out to be a J50 the rectangular bridge points to a pre-1950 instrument.

It is almost exactly 14.5" just under I would say.  I do not see any markings on the inside of the neck block.

[Dave F]

Does it have fabric strips on the inside of the side walls?

[oompahlumpa]

7 minutes ago, Dave F said:

Does it have fabric strips on the inside of the side walls?

Here are pics of the inside of the sound hole

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2FTQPaZPBh6UcoKfA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9Wmij1p5W9Zxp1sY6

[Dave F]

They stopped doing strips in ‘51 I think so that helps narrow it down. 

[oompahlumpa]

20 minutes ago, Dave F said:

They stopped doing strips in ‘51 I think so that helps narrow it down. 

So you think it's pre 1951 then?

[zombywoof]

2 minutes ago, oompahlumpa said:

So you think it's pre 1951 then?

Those fabric side supports started to be phased out after 1950 on all models but the J200 and CF-100.  But it is not like they disappeared at the stroke of midnight on Jan.1 of any given year.  Like the tapered (meaning thickness) headstock, Gibson apparently started phasing that feature out first on electrics and then on acoustics in 1952.  So, not only can you find both styles in 1952, you will also run into the occasional guitar with the old-style headstock up to 1954 (at least according to Willi Henkes whom I would not be quick to question about anything when it comes to Gibsons).  The only other feature I can think of which changed in the early-1950s would have been the tuners which is not going to be of any help here. 

 

[Dave F]

1 hour ago, oompahlumpa said:

So you think it's pre 1951 then?

My guess would be '47-'51. As Wuff mentioned, nothing happened at the stroke of midnight. Here's some references from Reverb

1949 Gibson LG-3 W/OSSC | Reverb  I would guess these were a newer upgrade especially with the metal buttons.

Gibson LG-3 1942-1952 Natural | Reverb these are the open tuners mentioned earlier.

[oompahlumpa]

9 minutes ago, Dave F said:

My guess would be '47-'51. As Wuff mentioned, nothing happened at the stroke of midnight. Here's some references from Reverb

1949 Gibson LG-3 W/OSSC | Reverb  I would guess these were a newer upgrade especially with the metal buttons.

Gibson LG-3 1942-1952 Natural | Reverb these are the open tuners mentioned earlier.

Where will I be able to get period correct tuners?

[G Man]

If you just want them to look the part, the best option is probably these from StewMac, although they are not the greatest tuners made, but they do the job.

https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-hardware/tuning-machines/solid-peghead-guitar-tuning-machines/golden-age-restoration-tuners-for-solid-peghead-guitar-with-scallop-end

[Dave F]

Since you don't know the exact year, you can choose from a few styles. I like the Golden Age StewMac replacements. With Vintage instruments, I try to keep an era correct set of tuners with the guitar but usually put a modern set with the same foot print on the guitar for my use. I usually gobble up early 30's Waverly's and early 40's Kluson's. They're getting scarce. If you look on eBay, you find plenty of 50's Kluson's that may need new buttons at a reasonable price. Nick (one of our members) has a way of getting the gears in working condition. Personally, I like the look of the open gears

Here's one of the sets I have for my '42 LG1 that I keep in the case.

Here's a set of the Golden Age - StewMac. I swapped out the white buttons for the black ones

 

 

[zombywoof]

The standard for Gibson restoration when it came to open gear tuners was Antique Acoustics which were offered by Blazer and Henkes.  Elderly carried them in the States.  Problem is they were discontinued so you would have to find a set used.

The way I look at it is though is the tuners that are on the guitar are part of its history.  So, unless they are ridiculously heavy or something or do not function properly I would just leave them be.  You can, however, always score a set of original tuners.  If Dave F is correct on the dating (which I think he is) your guitar most likely came with single line enclosed Klusons.

Edited June 3, 2023 by zombywoof

[zombywoof]

15 minutes ago, Dave F said:

Since you don't know the exact year, you can choose from a few styles. I like the Golden Age StewMac replacements. With Vintage instruments, I try to keep an era correct set of tuners with the guitar but usually put a modern set with the same foot print on the guitar for my use. I usually gobble up early 30's Waverly's and early 40's Kluson's. They're getting scarce. If you look on eBay, you find plenty of 50's Kluson's that may need new buttons at a reasonable price. Nick (one of our members) has a way of getting the gears in working condition. Personally, I like the look of the open gears

Here's one of the sets I have for my '42 LG1 that I keep in the case.

Here's a set of the Golden Age - StewMac. I swapped out the white buttons for the black ones

 

 

The first set of tuners pictured are the same as my 1942 J50 sports.  While I have gotten a bit hazy on it all, these were replaced by tuners with a single manufacturers stamp on the faceplate and then towards the end of WWII by tuners with riveted cogs with no manufacturers stamp.  I believe I do have a set of late Banner riveted cog tuners but no screwed cog sets.

Edited June 3, 2023 by zombywoof

[Dave F]

I have a great looking pair of the riveted style. I put the black buttons on them, but I don't like the look. I've got some old sacrificial sets with nice looking vintage cream buttons that I'm going to try to transplant. These have not been cleaned up, they resided under some trays on an old off brand guitar.

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Dave F