egoidealmusic Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Just stumbled upon this and was curious. Anyone ever owned/played one of these? Have really been wanting a 12 fret but don't really like the looks of the new Keb Mo for some reason. And other suggestions on a Gibson 12 fret? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Here's 3 Stage Deluxe I had and two L00 I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egoidealmusic Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 Haha I'll take that as a vote for 12 frets? I'm sure you've explained in other posts why you love them so much, but give me the elevator pitch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) I own a 1932 12 fret L1 but assume that is not what you are looking for. As well as those mentioned, Gibson has released the J45, SJ and AJ in 12 fret versions. They also released a Keb Mo Signature Bluesmaster (based on an L1) around 2010. These was initially a very limited run followed by a more widely available version. The best analogy I have ever heard to explain a 12 fretter is it is like hitting a snare drum dead center rather than off nearer the rim. Edited July 14, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egoidealmusic Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 Thanks, Zombywoof. And no, I'm guessing your 1932 is a bit steeper of a price than is in my range! Also curios as to why this listing has been up there for so long. Seems a bit high but with a custom shop label and a baked top maybe not so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 10 hours ago, egoidealmusic said: Also curios as to why this listing has been up there for so long. Seems a bit high but with a custom shop label and a baked top maybe not so much? What listing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) I have been playing 12 fret guitars for a long time. Prior to a late-1930s Regal X braced 12 string (which was found sticking out of a garbage bin) they were the typical ladder braced instruments. I do still play a couple of them. It has been a while but I have run into several of Gibson's take on Bob Dylan's Nick Lucas. At least one was an M2M guitar. These at least looked to be spot on accurate even sporting the non-Gibson bridge. True to the guitar they were copied from though they were 13 fret instruments. But I would not be too quick to turn my back on these. More than a few of us feel they are a great compromise giving you a bit more access to the board while still placing the bridge closer to the "sweet spot" than a 14 fretter. Edited July 14, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egoidealmusic Posted July 14, 2023 Author Share Posted July 14, 2023 Sorry...here's the listing I was talking about. https://reverb.com/item/65893716-price-drop-2019-gibson-custom-shop-stage-deluxe-limited-12-fret-amber-burst 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 13 hours ago, egoidealmusic said: Haha I'll take that as a vote for 12 frets? I'm sure you've explained in other posts why you love them so much, but give me the elevator pitch? All three Stage Deluxe were great guitars. I had hog, RW and walnut. Sound wise I preferred the RW. I moved all three because my old hands are having issues with the wide nut. The NL is RW with the deep body and the standard modern neck. Great sound and comfortable. The other L00 is a M2M. Standard depth, RW, aged top, slim taper neck. Great sound and comfortable. I’ve been down the rabbit hole chasing the sound I like from the different tone woods and have come to the conclusion that maple and RW need something extra on small bodies like a deeper depth or aged top. I’ve kissed enough frogs to know what I like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) Years back when I found myself in a position where I figured I had denied myself a Smeck long enough but was not willing to pay what a 1930s Smeck was now commanding, I started looking at compatible substitutes. I even talked with Dave F about two of his which were at the time available. I was also considering one of the limited edition somewhat pricey guitars released in 1994. In the end though I went with a 2013 Fairbanks take on the model. But given the upcharge associated with a nuked top I do not think the advertised guitar you are looking at is out of line when it comes to price tag. But suffice it to say if any guitar deserves the title of the "grand piano of acoustics" it is the Smecks. Edited July 14, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) The rosewood obsession I had for a long while met in a perfect storm when the Stage DeLuxe Rosewood 12 fret came out. The guitar had some deep lungs. But the sound seemed to hang out too long in that deep box, and while many might say as we age, were drawn to smaller guitars, just maybe some of us also get more of an appreciation of the quality of projection that small guitars can provide, as well as the comfort factor. My Hummingbird hasn't been getting as much play, mostly due to that "big box" sound. Makes me curious about the recent Hummingbird Studio Walnut. Had the AJ 12 fret. Beautifully made guitar. . . that also would seem to result in a warmer AJ, that handled like a J-45. But there's no getting around that scale length (not a capo guy). Then came the 12 fret J-45's. Had two in for an a/b, tried to get a 3rd, but the seller sensed a likely return. Chose, and still have, the better sounding of the two. It's got a blem or two, but it sounded the best to me. However, I don't know if it's the high-gloss finish, or it's newness, but it has a glassier sound to it: AJ 12-fret: Funny thing about the playing position, many will mention how a 12 fret requires less of a reach for the fretting hand, which would be more shoulder friendly, but the picking hand lands more over the fretboard extension- better have a decent setup &/or neck angle, or aggressive playing will have strings smacking off of the top of the frets on that area of the board. On paper, the thinking behind the 12 fret design sounds like it would be the perfect recipe for rich tone. But ultimately, it comes down to the individual guitar. Edited July 14, 2023 by 62burst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 ps- 'Woof mentioned the torrefied top stated in the seller's listing. But looking at the Gibson specs page included in his panel of included photos, it simply mentions it being an Adirondack top. If Gibson put a toasted top on there, they wouldn't be shy about mentioning it. Also- his stated nut width is a little off . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 Bottom line is if the guitar does not have the baked top, it would knock quite a bit off the price tag. So, it would behoove (I love that word) you to make dead sure you know what you are getting. You also want to make sure you can make peace with the neck. While the model has the nice wide nut, my experience with them is they also have a fairly shallow neck carve. Baby ain't got a lot of back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 40 minutes ago, zombywoof said: Bottom line is if the guitar does not have the baked top, it would knock quite a bit off the price tag. From what I estimate, the aged top adds about $1200 to the retail price. 41 minutes ago, zombywoof said: You also want to make sure you can make peace with the neck. While the model has the nice wide nut, my experience with them is they also have a fairly shallow neck carve. I had issues with that combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 5 hours ago, Dave F said: I had issues with that combination. Same here, but my Smeckspectations were higher on the deeper bodied (walnut) Jackson Browne model. In all of the ramblings in my previous post, I don't know if I emphasized that the Stage DeLuxe you were looking at, being deep-bodied, might not project as well as the J-45 models, and that the deeper body of the Stage-D might negate the ergonomics of the 12 fret design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 20 hours ago, Dave F said: I’ve kissed enough frogs to know what I like. Quote of the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 (edited) You have to remember that the Smeck was developed as a lap guitar. They borrowed the un-tapered body from the Jumbo but had to reverse engineer the large body to accommodate the 12 fret neck. As such a cottage industry has developed around shaving down the hefty necks to make then more user friendly. The originals I have run across had the un-scalloped X bracing the pre-1940s L Series guitars sported. My Fairbanks replicates this bracing carve. Edited July 15, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted July 15, 2023 Share Posted July 15, 2023 On 7/14/2023 at 12:01 PM, Dave F said: The NL is RW with the deep body and the standard modern neck. Great sound and comfortable. The other L00 is a M2M. Standard depth, RW, aged top, slim taper neck. Great sound and comfortable. . . "Just curious" 😎- what sort of options were available to you regarding neck profile for your L-00 build through the Made2Measure program? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 4 hours ago, 62burst said: "Just curious" 😎- what sort of options were available to you regarding neck profile for your L-00 build through the Made2Measure program? Options were limited at the time because much of their tooling was put into storage while the expansion was being built. I would guess the options now would be better. I referenced the L00 12 fret body they made I think in 2017 mod with a dark burst and aged top and the the neck from the J45 12 fret they recently made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 I guess this is not what you are interested -- 1910 to 1965 -- but it is all I got. 1913 U-10, 1917 L-1. 1926 L-1, 1932 L-2, 1933 HG-C, 1935 RSRG, 1937 RSSD, 1939 HG-00, 1965 F-25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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