Old L-3 info requested

[TheEllThree]

Hello! I have a very old Gibson L3. It was allegedly purchased by my great grandmother who brought it home, put it in the closet and did nothing with it. In about 1990 my grandmother and I wrote to the Gibson company asking for information(This was in the halcyon old days when we used envelopes and stamps and paper and pencil)

They kindly sent us a serial number guide that said our L3 was made in 1917. I just got the guitar out preparatory to replacing the pick rest(which is probably Bakelite, but might be real tortoiseshell, I can’t tell )and Strings.

I looked up the serial number online and now it says 1962, which must be impossible. Can anybody shed some light on this quandary?

The serial number is penciled in and is 52657.

I have photos but the files are too large.

it’s a beautiful guitar, though

[slimt]

Hi.  L3 is a neat guitar.  Your serial number says its a 1919.   Should be a round sound hole. A reddish  burst. With a flower motif on the headstock.  The back and sides are birch.  The pickguards are a type of hard plastic. 

Edited February 18 by slimt

[TheEllThree]

2 hours ago, slimt said:

Hi.  L3 is a neat guitar.  Your serial number says its a 1919.   Should be a round sound hole. A reddish  burst. With a flower motif on the headstock.  The back and sides are birch.  The pickguards are a type of hard plastic. 

Thank you! Is there any way to post the photos? 500mb is very small.

yes it has a round sound hole and a Vneck, slanted “The Gibson” text in inlaid pearl or some such, and a lovely sunburst

”hard plastic” would probably be Bakelite, which was an early plastic.

The pick guard is very fragile and I’d love to replace it with something more substantial. Is that a feasible goal?

[PrairieDog]

Use Imgur to upload the photos there (just make the post “hidden” if you don’t want to show on the imgur site.  Then click the direct link copy button (I think it is the second one down. And paste it in your post here.  Usually takes me a few choices to find the one that makes the pic show up in the post.) 

Anyway, yes you are correct. the pg is “Tortoise shell celluloid” .  The shop I bought my 1910 L1 assumed my tailpiece was real tortoise, but I found the ad for mine and it says celluloid.  Mine apparently never had the pick guard, although the 1910 was spec’d with one. May have been a special order, or done in the transition to the next year when they dropped it.  

Of course it is your choice, but if I can be bold may I suggest, please don’t replace it?  When you are talking rare instruments like this, just play it with the care a 100 year old instrument deserves to be treated.  It’s a special survivor, especially since it sounds like it is near mint.  and very few are left in original condition.  I hope you can put up pics.   Here’s mine just a few years younger, and a lot plainer (I’m assuming.) 

Mine is Adi spruce and Mahogany.  It is a fabulous sounding guitar!

 

Edited February 18 by PrairieDog

[TheEllThree]

https://ellthree.imgur.com/all

 

I hope  this works? It’s a lovely guitar. I should learn to play.

[PrairieDog]

Oops, nope that didn’t do it.  Tap on your the pic you loaded up to imgur. A column of links should appear to the right.  hit the copy “direct” link one, and paste it in here. 

[TheEllThree]

 

 

 

well, I doubled some images, but can’t figure out how to delete the extras. Sorry  bout that, but thanks a lot for your guidance!

[PrairieDog]

9 hours ago, TheEllThree said:

well, I doubled some images, but can’t figure out how to delete the extras. Sorry  bout that, but thanks a lot for your guidance!

 

No worries! It’s terrific!  Are the tuners actually still shiny? Wow.  Unless they were replaced at some point. Anyway, it’s hard to tell, but is the pickguard “crunchy” /flaky/peeling feeling? Or is it still nice and smooth.  I can’t tell if the lighter color is actually discoloration or part of the “swirl?” If so, the celluloid may actually be disintegrating, which would be a shame, and yes a replacement would be needed.  That old plastic does age out.  A  good luthier may be able to create or source a proper replacement.  But I would take it to a pro, not down the street to Guitar Center.  Really a neat score, dude.  Your Great grandma(?) did you good.  Yes, learn to play it, it’s been trapped in a closet too long and is dying to sing.  You have a fully crystallized top there. Nothing will sound exactly like it.  I gotta go hit the hay, but looking forward to hearing more about this little trooper.  

Edited February 18 by PrairieDog

[OrdinaryNimda]

This looks like a real treasure.  Maybe you should talk to Gibson, they might want to inspect and document it. And evaluate for repairs.

['Scales]

That look like a lovely and special piece of history - I'm sure you'll treat it with care and affection, and as mentioned above  please do only entrust its maintenance to an experienced and professional luthier no matter what needs doing. Very nice! 

PS - you might like to show the photos on the Gibson Acoustic page here in the forums - those guys will love to see it and some are very knowledgeable on old acoustics.

[Murph]

Holy cow, Batman.

[PrairieDog]

What you said… gosh, I’d like to see/hear it in person.  

[PrairieDog]

In the light of day, and rested eyes, just a couple more notes.  Yes, the celluloid is breaking down, which is something you need to address. The gasses, trapped in the case, causes issues with the metals.  It has caused some corrosion on the tailpiece structure, and is likely why you lost those two strings.  In this case the raised pick guard worked to your advantage because rotting celluloid can do a number on the finish itself. Hopefully there was enough separation to avoid any discoloration.  If there is, the new pick-guard will cover it back up.  

Keep it in the case, but open it at least every day to let the gas out, until you can get the pick guard rectified.  Have the luthier decide if the tailpiece has enough integrity  to handle the full string tension.  It looks hopeful as it doesn’t seem to be deflecting to the bass side. But most of the corrosion is on the treble. Those necks are sturdy as baseball bats, but it will be good to even out the tension again with a full set of strings.  

I am now wondering if the tuners were replaced at some point?  I’m only speculating because there are darker, vintage looking screws holding the plates in place that don’t match the shininess of the rest of the units, and that much shine is a bit unexpected in a case with off-gassing, especially when it has taken the finish off the other elements.  And the buttons are really fresh looking. Even if they haven’t been played, the color would have mellowed some?  

Again, I’m just sitting on my couch, looking at pics, in love with this guitar. And these are not dings on it at all, just something to be aware of in terms of it being “stock mint” or an “excellent condition, antique beauty.”  There is nothing wrong, and everything right, about someone doing what needs to be done to take care of and preserve a 100 year old guitar.  

[TheEllThree]

Thanks for all the information. I actually took it to a guitar center yesterday to have light tension strings put in, and the tech said he wasn’t the best choice to work on it, and recommended a place called Charlie’s guitars where someone could do a more involved evaluation.

He did noodle on it a bit and despite the small size, the  sound was round and pleasing.

it’s almost never been played, but the only person I know to have played it might have polished the tuners, although he took off the pick rest because it is so fragile.

 

[Dub-T-123]

I would absolutely take that pickguard off and store it separately from the guitar (outside of the case)

 

it looks like it’s degrading and as that happens it can release gasses in the case which corrode metal and does all kinds of damage to the finish and other plastics etc

[Dub-T-123]

I should have also said… BEAUTIFUL GUITAR!!!!

[PrairieDog]

21 minutes ago, TheEllThree said:

Thanks for all the information. I actually took it to a guitar center yesterday to have light tension strings put in, and the tech said he wasn’t the best choice to work on it, and recommended a place called Charlie’s guitars where someone could do a more involved evaluation.

He did noodle on it a bit and despite the small size, the  sound was round and pleasing.

it’s almost never been played, but the only person I know to have played it might have polished the tuners, although he took off the pick rest because it is so fragile.

 

Good on that tech! it is so refreshing to find someone who knows when to tap out, and nod to experts.  As Dub-T said, I hope he gave you the PG back, but do store it in some archival tissue paper in a separate, ventilated box.  I have seen some folks try to infuse them with expoxy to stabilize them, or even laminate them if they are intact enough, but again, the luthier can guide you.  

[TheEllThree]

Thank you, I am gratified by all this encouraging comment, and I look forward to sharing more information after I show it to Charlie.

I suppose I should start learning a little bit more than “eat a dead goat but eat.”

And even that mnemonic is useless if I don’t know which direction to start it in, ha ha

[PrairieDog]

30 minutes ago, TheEllThree said:

Thank you, I am gratified by all this encouraging comment, and I look forward to sharing more information after I show it to Charlie.

I suppose I should start learning a little bit more than “eat a dead goat but eat.”

And even that mnemonic is useless if I don’t know which direction to start it in, ha ha

You’ll pick it up in no time! Have fun!

[TheEllThree]

Update! I got the guitar…pick rest broke. Too fragile. Going to try to reattach the broken piece.

sheesh. 105 years and it breaks.

gonna take it to the luthier this week to see if he says anything.

[PrairieDog]

Don’t put the pick guard back on! It is just too dangerous to the guitar.  I thought you said GC tech took it off?  Just try to source a replacement.  If you are talking about the support bracket broke, that is because the gases from the pick guard weakened it.  you may be able to find a replacement for that too.  But the guard at this point is that toxic it will eat through metal and ruin your finish.  Glad you have it back, and get it to the luthier for a full check up/work up. It’ll be worth it! 

[slimt]

1 hour ago, TheEllThree said:

Update! I got the guitar…pick rest broke. Too fragile. Going to try to reattach the broken piece.

sheesh. 105 years and it breaks.

gonna take it to the luthier this week to see if he says anything.

You should see if you can take a model mold casting  from the attachment prior to putting back on.  So s piece can be reproduced 

 

[Dub-T-123]

If you’re talking about the pickguard sheet itself that could be replaced. The celluloid mounting brackets will be much more complicated to replace

 

that was such a bad design on the pickguard but hindsight is 20/20

 

i would take the whole pickguard off because all of its parts are destined to fail or offgas in the case

[TheEllThree]

It has been removed, the part that broke was the fake tortoiseshell. It was very thin. I can’t imagine it being useful ever because it is just so fragile. There are two brackets, and they are both present, right now it is carefully wrapped up, and in the little Cubbyhole in the case. 

on second thought, I will remove it as per your recommendation. It’s kind of odd to think that a part of an instrument might actively be destroying another part of the instrument, ha ha.

[slimt]

18 minutes ago, TheEllThree said:

It has been removed, the part that broke was the fake tortoiseshell. It was very thin. I can’t imagine it being useful ever because it is just so fragile. There are two brackets, and they are both present, right now it is carefully wrapped up, and in the little Cubbyhole in the case. 

on second thought, I will remove it as per your recommendation. It’s kind of odd to think that a part of an instrument might actively be destroying another part of the instrument, ha ha.

The parts are gassing off. The celluloid is deteriorating  , it will cause slot of damage to other parts of the guitar , like binding, the overall finish, all the metal parts   So best to take out of the case  and remove the metal clasps and screws    The pick guard is held on by two nails at the finger board and one resting at the tail piece. Lightly wiggle that away from the board.  Put those oarts in s zip lock in another room.