Six months in any more thoughts on the Falcon 20?

[badbluesplayer]

About Mesa amps and their quality - I've worked on a few.  They seem like really high quality amps.  Rugged.  Nice quality components and sturdy enough to work on.  And it seems like there's very few that ever need work, other than maintenance.  If the Gibson amps are built like that, then I'm sure they're rugged.

Mesa's are just a PITA to work on.  Not worth it.  Complicated, with no support.  You can buy parts from them, but they don't provide schematics.  They like to keep their technical info private so people don't steal all their hard work- that's been the way the boutique amp people have become.  That's O.K.  But they're not really made to be serviced by your local tech.  By the time you figure out how the amps work, you hate them, your wife and everybody else.  Think about it.  Nobody makes clones of Mesa's, so obviously there's not a market for copies.  Why protect your ideas when nobody wants to steal them.  I'm just trying to fix the stuff when it's broke.  You call them up and ask a question and they all put their hands over their ears and yell "Hummahummahumma" until you  hang up.

Edited July 29 by badbluesplayer

[Sgt. Pepper]

23 hours ago, badbluesplayer said:

About Mesa amps and their quality - I've worked on a few.  They seem like really high quality amps.  Rugged.  Nice quality components and sturdy enough to work on.  And it seems like there's very few that ever need work, other than maintenance.  If the Gibson amps are built like that, then I'm sure they're rugged.

Mesa's are just a PITA to work on.  Not worth it.  Complicated, with no support.  You can buy parts from them, but they don't provide schematics.  They like to keep their technical info private so people don't steal all their hard work- that's been the way the boutique amp people have become.  That's O.K.  But they're not really made to be serviced by your local tech.  By the time you figure out how the amps work, you hate them, your wife and everybody else.  Think about it.  Nobody makes clones of Mesa's, so obviously there's not a market for copies.  Why protect your ideas when nobody wants to steal them.  I'm just trying to fix the stuff when it's broke.  You call them up and ask a question and they all put their hands over their ears and yell "Hummahummahumma" until you  hang up.

If you are a person who has a business, would you want people copying your work? I feel bad for Mesa they signed a deal with the Devil (Gibson) and it’s only a matter of time before that company is ruined.

Edited July 30 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sheepdog1969]

On 7/28/2024 at 8:07 AM, PrairieDog said:

I just thought the Supreme would really go to town on tubes.  

So here is my two cents, (and I'll give it to you for free, just like Marshall Mathers. See what I did there????)

In 1988, I bought a 200 watt Ampeg head and a Pevey 4x10 cab from a friend who was forced to leave college mid semester to tend to his ailing father. He was hurting for cash and begged me to give him, "what I could" for it. I only had $200, which was no where near enough. Astonishingly, he took it. I did promise to hold the amp/cab for him until he returned to school, when I would give it back to him in return for the $200. I also told him that  I would give him "first right of refusal" if I found a buyer before then. Sadly, he never returned to school, nor did he want it back when I told him someone wanted to buy it.

This was the first Tube amp I had ever owned, and the only "half stack" I ever owned. The amp was made in the '70's, (can't remember the year), and may have been a Bass amp. I remember I thought the reverb was broken until I found this weird thing on the back of the head that had stamped writing on it indicating that this metal piece needed to be "opened" to release the "reverb" from it's travel lock position. It appeared to be some type of spring reverb, and I hated it. I returned it to it's travel lock position shortly after that. However, I could not get over the amazing tone this tube amp generated. It was so much better than any of the solid state amps I had played through before. Despite making a fortune when I sold it a year later, I quickly regretted what I lost in tone by going back to solid state amps.

Flash forward to about a year ago, when I couldn't take the tone anymore from my Solid State amps. Being a single father putting his kid through Catholic school, (and soon to pay for her college), I didn't want to "break the bank" on a tube amp, nor was I interested in buying a 5-10 watt Fender tube amp, that would need to be mic'd for gigs. I started doing some research and began to focus on Fender tube amps. (I had just picked up my EPI 335, and wanted a tube amp to let it ring, kinda like what you are looking to do with your Supreme now.)  I know many folks cringe when I say this, but I really love my Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Series III 40 watt tube amp. (used, like new with foot switch for under $500.00) Yes, the volume knob is touchy, and millimeter adjustments result in massive volume changes. (anything over 3 will blow the windows out of your house, and the knob goes to 12!) Yet, I found that when set to a hair under 2, I get everything I need from the amp for indoor play. I haven't moved the volume level in months. When I use different guitars, I may adjust the "Presence" setting, the Drive (Gain), and the EQ levels a bit, but I need not mess with the volume. I find that I can use my guitar volume adjustments, and my effects level settings (if/when applicable) to change volume levels. Even thought the HRD III has a clean channel, a "drive/dirty channel", and a "more drive" button for use on the "drive/dirty" channel, I personally only use the "clean" channel. I can "drive" the clean channel to breakup, and beyond, by adjusting the volume and gain to OD the amp if I want. But, I prefer to simply use pedals for distortion/OD, as I have the amp set just below the break up point normally. There is a normal/bright button, but I leave it in the normal setting. It has an effects loop, which I use for my Chorus, and two inputs. Input one is normal and  input two has a db reduction, not sure how much. I really like the Reverb, but it is a bit touchy too, regarding how small adjustments make big changes. It's the fluid tank type of Reverb, and I'm happy it works with my slightly angled amp stand. The Series III's came with an upgraded 12 inch 80 watt Celestion speaker, which is a massive upgrade from whatever was in the HRD series I and II. I'm not sure what is in the Series IV.

From what I have gleaned from your posts, I think you tend to play on the clean side, and you like the idea of a tube amp that will bring out the awesome tones of your Supreme. You seem to be leaning towards a tube amp with a watt selector switch so you can achieve similar tones when playing in some settings where volume is an issue and in settings where it isn't. The Fender HRD series III does not have said switch, but I have found in the clean setting, playing at lower volumes still maintains the tone I get at higher levels. There is no comparison between the 40 watt tube HRD and my solid state 30 watt Marshal, especially when playing my 335. The HRD's are tough as nails, and my used one plays like new. There are tons of head to head real time comparison review videos of the Fender HRD series III vs. other, far more expensive Fender tube amps. Check them out. You will be surprised by how the HRD stands up to them and/or exceeds them, especially on the clean channel. There is an HRD series IV, which supposedly fixed the volume pot sensitivity issues, but Fender claimed the series III release fixed the same issue, but it didn't. If you can, try a HRD series III or IV, with your 335, if the review videos are to your liking. I love mine. It can't hurt to check one out. Your Supreme deserves tube tone brother, regardless of what tube amp you choose to buy. Happy hunting.

[kidblast]

I had the big brother to the HRD that SheepDog just wrote about.

it's true about the controls,  the volume goes from zero to ludicrous speed in a heartbeat 

The one I had was 60w, with 4x10 speaker config.

That amp was a beast!  The drive channels on these amps are not really stellar but put a nice OD pedal or two, in front,  and look out!

I sold it a few years ago, and sometimes, regret it.  I did get a decent price for it tho  the buyer knew what he was getting and was willing to pay me what the going rate was.

it was heavy though, so that's definitely a consideration to avoid.

 

 

[swampash]

I got a Supro Black Magick Reverb two years ago after years of Fender amps and would never go back now. It's like it fell out of the fifties.

Fully analog 25 watt tube amp with tube tremolo and reverb.

[duane v]

I dunno about the Falcon20.... To me it sounds like a Electro-Harmonix Big Muff. 

[Phil OKeefe]

3 hours ago, swampash said:

I got a Supro Black Magick Reverb two years ago after years of Fender amps and would never go back now. It's like it fell out of the fifties.

Fully analog 25 watt tube amp with tube tremolo and reverb.

I reviewed, and then purchased, a Supro Comet 1610RT. I still have it (along with about a dozen other guitar and bass amps). Great sounding little amp. It has that big 6L6 bottom that sounds really nice, even from its stock 10" speaker. Nice cleans, and it has a great overdriven tone, too. But I've had reverb issues arise, and there's zero tech support. They're discontinued now, and Supro won't work on them anymore, and you can't get a schematic. MESA isn't the only company that won't release schematics. At least MESA still does repair work on their discontinued amps. 

[PrairieDog]

3 hours ago, duane v said:

I dunno about the Falcon20.... To me it sounds like a Electro-Harmonix Big Muff. 

Okay, here we go.  So, have you actually gotten to play one, or are you just going off how it’s built or the videos? While I sincerely appreciate all the knowledgeable suggestions,  I am looking for insights from folks who have been able to play with a Falcon20 

Edited July 30 by PrairieDog

[duane v]

Of course I tried one out at the Rancho GC. I thought it being made by the MESA Group it would have the same tonal qualities as the MARK-Series Boogie amps.... Not even close.

That amp just doesn't have the tone I'm looking for. It just don't have that metal tone I like.

[PrairieDog]

30 minutes ago, duane v said:

Of course I tried one out at the Rancho GC. I thought it being made by the MESA Group it would have the same tonal qualities as the MARK-Series Boogie amps.... Not even close.

That amp just doesn't have the tone I'm looking for. It just don't have that metal tone I like.

Okay, so if I understand correctly, you didn’t like it because it didn’t get enough dirt/OD?  Since I’m looking for a cleaner tone right now (my head banging days are a while back) maybe this could be read as a plus for me… hmmmm…. Thanks for the followup!  

[duane v]

9 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

Okay, so if I understand correctly, you didn’t like it because it didn’t get enough dirt/OD?  Since I’m looking for a cleaner tone right now (my head banging days are a while back) maybe this could be read as a plus for me… hmmmm…. Thanks for the followup!  

No

It sounded like a fuzz box..... I like a clear chimey metal tone. Boston early Van Halen type tone.

[PrairieDog]

4 minutes ago, duane v said:

No

It sounded like a fuzz box..... I like a clear chimey metal tone. Boston early Van Halen type tone.

Ahhh, okay…. I get it now.  Hmmmm….. take two. 

[badbluesplayer]

The Princeton Reverb Reissues are $1,499.  They're not quite as high quality as Mesas but they have a big service network and anybody can fix them.  They're mostly a clean amp.  About the best clean sound you can get.  You can get some loose distortion over 5 on the volume, but it's not a Marshall.

These Falcons seem to sound like vintage Gibsons.  A little more compressed and flat than a Fender.  Thicker when clean but they can scream when you turn them way up and they get opened up.  It is a little harder to find usable settings on an amp that opens up at high volume.  The power reduction switch surely helps some.

[PrairieDog]

On 8/10/2024 at 8:36 AM, badbluesplayer said:

The Princeton Reverb Reissues are $1,499.  They're not quite as high quality as Mesas but they have a big service network and anybody can fix them.  They're mostly a clean amp.  About the best clean sound you can get.  You can get some loose distortion over 5 on the volume, but it's not a Marshall.

These Falcons seem to sound like vintage Gibsons.  A little more compressed and flat than a Fender.  Thicker when clean but they can scream when you turn them way up and they get opened up.  It is a little harder to find usable settings on an amp that opens up at high volume.  The power reduction switch surely helps some.

Thanks BBP!