Saudi extremism, Right Wing extremism, religious extremism - great.....

[KSG_Standard]

Just a question:

If life begins at conception what is the proper procedure when the zygote implants in the fallopian tube.

 

Pray tell. Super moralists.

 

"Human development begins at fertilization' date=' the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual."

 

"A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo)."

 

Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

 

"Development begins with fertilization, the process by which the male gamete, the sperm, and the femal gamete, the oocyte, unite to give rise to a zygote."

 

T.W. Sadler, Langman's Medical Embryology, 10th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, 2006. p. 11.

 

"[The zygote'], formed by the union of an oocyte and a sperm, is the beginning of a new human being."

 

Keith L. Moore, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2008. p. 2.

 

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization (which, incidentally, is not a 'moment') is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new genetically distinct human organism is formed when the chromosomes of the male and female pronuclei blend in the oocyte."

 

Ronan O'Rahilly and Fabiola Müller, Human Embryology and Teratology, 3rd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 2001. p. 8.

 

"Human embryos begin development following the fusion of definitive male and female gametes during fertilization... This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."

 

William J. Larsen, Essentials of Human Embryology. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1998. pp. 1, 14.

 

"It is the penetration of the ovum by a spermatozoan and resultant mingling of the nuclear material each brings to the union that constitues the culmination of the process of fertilization and marks the initiation of the life of a new individual."

 

Clark Edward Corliss, Patten's Human Embryology: Elements of Clinical Development. New York: McGraw Hill, 1976. p. 30.

 

"The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops."

 

"The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life."

 

J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Friedman, Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders, 1974. pp. 17, 23.

 

"Every time a sperm cell and ovum unite a new being is created which is alive and will continue to live unless its death is brought about by some specific condition."

 

E.L. Potter and J.M. Craig, Pathology of the Fetus and the Infant, 3rd edition. Chicago: Year Book Medical Publishers, 1975. p. vii.

 

"Every baby begins life within the tiny globe of the mother's egg... It is beautifully translucent and fragile and it encompasses the vital links in which life is carried from one generation to the next. Within this tiny sphere great events take place. When one of the father's sperm cells, like the ones gathered here around the egg, succeeds in penetrating the egg and becomes united with it, a new life can begin." - 13

 

Geraldine Lux Flanagan, Beginning Life. New York: DK, 1996. p. 13.

 

"Biologically speaking, human development begins at fertilization."

 

The Biology of Prenatal Develpment, National Geographic, 2006.

 

"The two cells gradually and gracefully become one. This is the moment of conception, when an individual's unique set of DNA is created, a human signature that never existed before and will never be repeated."

 

In the Womb, National Geographic, 2005.

 

"When fertilization is complete, a unique genetic human entity exists."

 

C. Christopher Hook, M.D.

Oncologist, Mayo Clinic, Director of Ethics Education, Mayo Graduate School of Medicine

 

"Science has a very simple conception of man; as soon as he has been conceived, a man is a man."

 

Jerome Lejeune, M.D., Ph.D.

 

In 1981, a United States Senate judiciary subcommittee received the following testimony from a collection of medical experts (Subcommittee on Separation of Powers to Senate Judiciary Committee S-158, Report, 97th Congress, 1st Session, 1981):

 

"It is incorrect to say that biological data cannot be decisive...It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception."

 

Professor Micheline Matthews-Roth

Harvard University Medical School

 

"I have learned from my earliest medical education that human life begins at the time of conception."

 

Dr. Alfred M. Bongioanni

Professor of Pediatrics and Obstetrics, University of Pennsylvania

 

"After fertilization has taken place a new human being has come into being. [it] is no longer a matter of taste or opinion...it is plain experimental evidence. Each individual has a very neat beginning, at conception."

 

Dr. Jerome LeJeune

Professor of Genetics, University of Descartes

 

"By all the criteria of modern molecular biology, life is present from the moment of conception."

 

Professor Hymie Gordon

Mayo Clinic

 

"The beginning of a single human life is from a biological point of view a simple and straightforward matter – the beginning is conception."

 

Dr. Watson A. Bowes

University of Colorado Medical School

 

The official Senate report reached this conclusion:

 

"Physicians, biologists, and other scientists agree that conception marks the beginning of the life of a human being - a being that is alive and is a member of the human species. There is overwhelming agreement on this point in countless medical, biological, and scientific writings."

 

The American Medical Association (AMA) declared as far back as 1857 (referenced in the Roe. vs. Wade opinion) that "the independent and actual existence of the child before birth, as a living being” is a matter of objective science. They deplored the “popular ignorance...that the foetus is not alive till after the period of quickening.”

 

Why have all the teaching texts and so many medical experts come to this same conclusion? Because there are simple ways to measure whether something is alive and whether something is human. If Faye Wattleton is correct and everyone already knows that abortion kills a human being, they have come to that knowledge in spite of the information circulated by Planned Parenthood and the rest of the abortion-rights community. The abortion section of the Planned Parenthood website explains abortion this way:

 

"Abortion ends a pregnancy before birth."

 

How's that for thorough? Maybe they just assume that the method for ending the pregnancy is so obvious (killing the human being living in the womb) that it hardly bears mentioning. More likely, Planned Parenthood is simply accommodating the general ignorance which believes abortion to be the mere removal of potential human life, rather than the actual killing of existing human life.

 

Biologically speaking, every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being.

 

 

Faye Wattleton - Planned Parenthood "I think we have deluded ourselves into believing that people don't know that abortion is killing. So any pretense that abortion is not killing is a signal of our ambivalence, a signal that we cannot say yes, it kills a fetus."

 

Naomi Wolf -"Clinging to a rhetoric about abortion in which there is no life and no death, we entangle our beliefs in a series of self-delusions, fibs and evasions. And we risk becoming precisely what our critics charge us with being: callous, selfish and casually destructive men and women who share a cheapened view of human life...we need to contextualize the fight to defend abortion rights within a moral framework that admits that the death of a fetus is a real death."

[KSG_Standard]

* In 1984, then-Surgeon General C. Everett Koop estimated that about 4,000 “third trimester” (after 26 weeks) abortions occur each year in the United States, and that “less than five percent of that number have induced abortion because of a known defect in the fetus.”

 

* Dr. Martin Haskell, who specializes in partial-birth abortions which are done on late-term babies, reported that he had performed over 1,000 of these abortions himself. The late Dr. James McMahon admitted performing over 2,000.

 

* An employee of Kansas abortionist George Tiller wrote in 1991, “I saw the medical records of every abortion patient for a period of over six months. At least (conservatively) an average of ten (24-30-week gestation) late-term abortions were done each week” in that facility alone - - which would be over 500 a year.

[Homz]

So did all that copy/paste answer the simple question. what do you do with a tubal pregnancy? You see the proper thing to do would have been to read it and then make an observational point of view, not post the book for which only a select few will actually read. This tactic might in the past have made some believe you are an informed poster. I think it shows just the opposite.

 

 

I'll save you some time. The procedure for a tubal preg. is Mexotrexate (spelling?) This will halt cell development and allow the doctor time to remove the zygote. Perhaps there are other ways to deal with this issue, but suffice to say none are going to result in a healthy baby being born. --- That's just me. Wicked1 is no longer part of this ignorant conversation. As she put it.

[hans]

That's a lot of references! Now, if we turn the topic upside down; what about children that are born prematurely? Is it right to save a child born prematurely e.g. when the child isn't fully developed and most definitely will be extremely multi-handicapped?

[Homz]

* In 1984' date=' then-Surgeon General C. Everett Koop estimated that about 4,000 “third trimester” (after 26 weeks) abortions occur each year in the United States, and that “less than five percent of that number have induced abortion because of a known defect in the fetus.”

 

* Dr. Martin Haskell, who specializes in partial-birth abortions which are done on late-term babies, reported that he had performed over 1,000 of these abortions himself. The late Dr. James McMahon admitted performing over 2,000.

 

* An employee of Kansas abortionist George Tiller wrote in 1991, “I saw the medical records of every abortion patient for a period of over six months. At least (conservatively) an average of ten (24-30-week gestation) late-term abortions were done each week” in that facility alone - - which would be over 500 a year.

 

[/quote']

 

Does this in any way talk to the reason for these abortions. Half truths like all your worthless posts. That is assuming I even believe the content of the post.

[KSG_Standard]

No half truths here spoonz, just facts from reputable publications, all documented...It's too bad you weren't aborted. Is it too late? You weep for Dr. Tiller, and his murder was a crime, for which is killer will be punished. But just stop and think (if you know how), he started performing abortions in 1970...He was one of only 3 clinics in the US that "legally" performed late term abortions...He may have been responsible for more than 19,000 dead babies! Do you really believe that all of those abortions were done to protect the life of the mother? or the health of the child? Even you aren't that naive or stupid....

[Californiaman]

That's a lot of references! Now' date=' if we turn the topic upside down; what about children that are born prematurely? Is it right to save a child born prematurely e.g. when the child isn't fully developed and most definitely will be extremely multi-handicapped?[/quote']

 

Countless dollars are spent every year on premature births all over the world.

Neo-natal nursing is one of the top fields to get into.

Many hospitals are building new wings and increasing their budgets for premature births.

My wife has worked as a neo natal nurse for a good portion of her nursing career. I can tell you right now, most of those children receive the utmost medical care. They are loved and wanted and, even in the most extreme cases where no one gives the baby a chance, are cared for.

Sure some don't make it, but they wouldn't have made it anyway. Some with spines or internal organs born on the outside of their bodies.

I can't imagine not trying to save every one of them.

[Californiaman]

No half truths here spoonz' date=' just facts from reputable publications, all documented...It's too bad you weren't aborted. Is it too late? You weep for Dr. Tiller, and his murder was a crime, for which is killer will be punished. But just stop and think (if you know how), he started performing abortions in 1970...He was one of only 3 clinics in the US that "legally" performed late term abortions...He may have been responsible for more than 19,000 dead babies! Do you really believe that all of those abortions were done to protect the life of the mother? or the health of the child? Even you aren't that naive or stupid....[/quote']

 

Most were done out of convenience.

[KSG_Standard]

That's a lot of references! Now' date=' if we turn the topic upside down; what about children that are born prematurely? Is it right to save a child born prematurely e.g. when the child isn't fully developed and most definitely will be extremely multi-handicapped?[/quote']

 

I believe that ALL human life is precious...that's just my opinion, we are each entitled to whatever we want to believe.

[Dynadude]

Why is this kind of crap still going on here?

 

You people do realise that this is a music forum, right? And you do realise that continued abuse of this part of the forum will result in the lounge being removed, right?

 

It seems like there are some here that are too self centered to take other people into account. Don't be one of them.

[Homz]

No half truths here spoonz' date=' just facts from reputable publications, all documented...It's too bad you weren't aborted. Is it too late? You weep for Dr. Tiller, and his murder was a crime, for which is killer will be punished. But just stop and think (if you know how), he started performing abortions in 1970...He was one of only 3 clinics in the US that "legally" performed late term abortions...He may have been responsible for more than 19,000 dead babies! Do you really believe that all of those abortions were done to protect the life of the mother? or the health of the child? Even you aren't that naive or stupid....

 

I thought every human was sacred? Oh, I get it. The sacred ones are the ones that agree with you. I bet if we get a bit farther into the logic they will also be lilly white with blue eyes.

 

 

As for which abortions are for the health of the mother. I don't know. That is and will never be my decision. It is and I hope will always be in the hands of the potential mother and her doctor. Being that your cohorts may kill all of the doctors off who would be willing to do this procedure I suppose eventually that decision will be left to back room abortionists.

[Homz]

bTW it's not too late. You could march your coward arse up here and self abort.

[KSG_Standard]

 

I thought every human was sacred? Oh' date=' I get it. The sacred ones are the ones that agree with you. I bet if we get a bit farther into the logic they will also be lilly white with blue eyes.

 

 

As for which abortions are for the health of the mother. I don't know. That is and will never be my decision. It is and I hope will always be in the hands of the potential mother and her doctor. Being that your cohorts may kill all of the doctors off who would be willing to do this procedure I suppose eventually that decision will be left to back room abortionists. [/quote']

 

I do consider every HUMAN life precious :-

 

What part don't you get spoonz? YOU are white, I am half white...I've never killed anyone, and I don't plan to. You have blood on your hands, by who you vote for and support. And by the way, my coward a$$ is right here and available for you to try your luck with...if you can break away from running the car company we bought you.

[Californiaman]

I really don't think that discussions like these will get the forum shut down. Talk about a reactionary statement. Come on.

If you don't want to participate or read it, then read something else, participate there.

Nothing wrong with two adults having a ideological debate.

Keep it up guys. This is great.

 

Homz, come on, you bring a lot of the criticism on yourself. Read through the threads of this post and see for yourself. KSG sighted good stuff. You on the other hand started in with the insults as a result. You do it all the time. He sights a source, you start with the mud slinging. He calls you a name in return and so on and so on and so on. Come on guys. Keep it civil.

[Homz]

I could get you a good deal on an American union made vehicle.

 

Oh sorry, you only buy foreign union products. My mistake. It's not the unions you hate it's the American unions. I get it.

[Homz]

Why is this kind of crap still going on here?

 

You people do realise that this is a music forum' date=' right? And you do realise that continued abuse of this part of the forum will result in the lounge being removed, right?

 

It seems like there are some here that are too self centered to take other people into account. Don't be one of them.[/quote']

 

Dyna I respect your opinion, but I've seen you in quite a few of these tit for tat conversations too. This one may not be to your interest, but I'll bet that's just the subject.

 

May I suggest you simply refrain from clicking on the thread.

No malice. Just saying.

[KSG_Standard]

I could get you a good deal on an American union made vehicle.

 

Oh sorry' date=' you only buy foreign union products. My mistake. It's not the unions you hate it's the American unions. I get it.

 

[/quote']

 

None of the above...I don't even hate you...

 

Remember, I own a chevy made in Mexico by Mexican auto workers, a Honda made in America by American workers and a BMW made in Germany by German workers.:-

[Homz]

 

None of the above...I don't even hate you...

 

Remember' date=' I own a chevy made in Mexico by Mexican auto workers, a Honda made in America by American workers and a BMW made in Germany by German workers.:- [/quote']

 

You don't hate me? Now I feel all warm and fuzzy. Even after you wished my retroactive abortion. That means a lot to me. I think I may just want to cuddle.

[Homz]

I really don't think that discussions like these will get the forum shut down. Talk about a reactionary statement. Come on.

If you don't want to participate or read it' date=' then read something else, participate there.

Nothing wrong with two adults having a ideological debate.

Keep it up guys. This is great.

 

Homz, come on, you bring a lot of the criticism on yourself. Read through the threads of this post and see for yourself. KSG sighted good stuff. You on the other hand started in with the insults as a result. You do it all the time. He sights a source, you start with the mud slinging. He calls you a name in return and so on and so on and so on. Come on guys. Keep it civil.[/quote']

 

Being civil, as you were, I ask you what facts you are referring to? He copy/pastes the procedure of an abortion. How did that even address the point of the thread. You feel compelled to agree with anything he posts. I get that, but if you actually read his posts you might find it's all empty jargon. My responses were as you point out more flame then substance. That's true because I stated my position in the first two posts and kept being sighted for my lack of morals (paraphrasing). His type of person is not worthy of the admiration you give him. I sincerely hope you look carefully into that. IMHO

As for being a jerk. I am guilty, but I am not alone. BTW I didn't call for his abortion.

[rocketman]

I believe that ALL human life is precious...that's just my opinion' date=' we are each entitled to whatever we want to believe.[/quote']

 

+1,000,000. Thanks KSG for saying what I want to say. The only "handicap" my premature kid has is that he's in the 5 percentile in height. He's reading and doing math at one grade above his level. By the end of summer I'll have him two more grade levels higher in math. To this day I can't believe a small baby that barely fit in my one hand (note: preemie clothing was too big for him when he was born) is the 8 year old kid I see before me now. My wife and I didn't want to take any of the tests that would indicate any "defects." We always said that we love whatever we got, and we certainly do...

[Homz]

I've got some catch phrases that might impress you.

 

How about we all stop talking and start doing. All you who think life to be a miraculous achievement go forth and adopt a child in need. You can all help by doing rather then killing doctors or saying prayers. Just go do it.

 

All the good intentions in the world wont save one child. Only you can do that. (Homz 5-31-09 7:45pm)

[rocketman]

No offense Homz, but I don't need a lecture from you telling me that I should be "doing." You have no idea what I already do and you'll never know because I keep that stuff very private.

[KSG_Standard]

I've got some catch phrases that might impress you.

 

How about we all stop talking and start doing. All you who think life to be a miraculous achievement go forth and adopt a child in need. You can all help by doing rather then killing doctors or saying prayers. Just go do it.

 

All the good intentions in the world wont save one child. Only you can do that. (Homz 5-31-09 7:45pm)

 

I have never killed anyone. Nor have I ever voted for ANYONE that promotes the killing of the unborn. I have two kids of my own, and apparently I have been forced to adopt UAW members. Am I not doing enough already?

[Homz]

No offense Homz' date=' but I don't need a lecture from you telling me that I should be "doing." You have no idea what I already do and you'll never know because I keep that stuff very private. [/quote']

 

I apologize.

 

I meant it as more of a general statement, but I can see how you might have taken it personally.

[Homz]

 

I have never killed anyone. Nor have I ever voted for ANYONE that promotes the killing of the unborn. I have two kids of my own' date=' and apparently I have been forced to adopt UAW members. Am I not doing enough already?[/quote']

 

Daddy can I have a lolly?

 

 

When those loans are repaid will you be willing to eat all your anti labor crap? Just asking.

 

Who am I kidding. You have never ever even once admitted you have ever been wrong.