Nuclear Holocaust

[grampa]

Black pretty much nailed it, totally insane panic. My first memory of the bomb was in 1949 listening to a radio report about it I remember being scared.

I grew up within 1 mile of our area's ground zero and by the time I was 10 I pretty much had decided that being vaporized on the roof would be better than living through the aftermath.

[stevef]

I grew up in the '50s in NYC. We had "duck and cover" drills and there were a few well equiped "Air Raid Shelters" around. Atomic or nuclear attack meant replace "duck and cover" with "bend over and kiss you @ss goodbye".

Fort Totten had Anti-Aircraft missle "batteries" (Nikes?) to help protect NYC, but they were removed in late '50s or early '60s, probably because they wouldn't make any difference (they were well within the total annihilation zone and ICBMs were the mode of destruction du jour).

[milod]

FYI - remember I noted the potential for Yellowstone, which possibly is the worlds largest "supervolcano" to blow, and make even all-out nuclear war seem almost piddly?

 

From Sunday night there until Monday morning was a cluster of some 200 earthquakes. It's still rumbling.

 

Last night I finally took a cupla hours "off" and had a beer with a paleontologist friend. Talk about the potential of an extinction event was ... interesting. <grin> Where I live, he figures about 20 feet of volcanic "dust." No way to survive that. Not at all. That, and other stuff in the atmosphere would pretty well zap the whole world, although perhaps immediately worse in the northern hemisphere.

 

m

[flyingarmadillo]

My Avatar is from the SAC museum' date=' I think thats

a Titan missle. They have some unbelievable stuff there.

I found an old launch control panel in one of the warehouses, pretty cool and

creepy.[/quote']

 

 

It's an Atlas missile - predates the Titans. A modified version was used as the booster for the orbital Mercury manned missions. The SAC museum looks pretty interesting - maybe there is a reason to visit Nebraska for more than a quick drive through. We had Nike missile batteries (anti aircraft) near my house when I was a kid (suburban Milwaukee) - always wondered what good they were against an ICBM. Black did a nice job off capturing the lunacy - the other satirical but interesting look is the movie "Dr. Stranglove"

[Cruznolfart]

FYI - remember I noted the potential for Yellowstone' date=' which possibly is the worlds largest "supervolcano" to blow, and make even all-out nuclear war seem almost piddly?

 

From Sunday night there until Monday morning was a cluster of some 200 earthquakes. It's still rumbling.

 

Last night I finally took a cupla hours "off" and had a beer with a paleontologist friend. Talk about the potential of an extinction event was ... interesting. <grin> Where I live, he figures about 20 feet of volcanic "dust." No way to survive that. Not at all. That, and other stuff in the atmosphere would pretty well zap the whole world, although perhaps immediately worse in the northern hemisphere.

 

m

[/quote']

 

Jeez, Milo, between Yellowstone and the Pacific Rim we could really light things up for awhile; couldn't we? Wonder how long we'd have to enjoy the show...:-

 

When St. Helen's exploded 30 some years ago my BIL in NC had to wash ash off his car for a few days!

[flyingarmadillo]

Jeez' date=' Milo, between Yellowstone and the Pacific Rim we could really light things up for awhile; couldn't we? Wonder how long we'd have to enjoy the show...:-

 

When St. Helen's exploded 30 some years ago my BIL in NC had to wash ash off his car for a few days! [/quote']

 

It will solve the global warming thing too! Should be about 100,000 years of ice before the climate "recovers" unless it triggers another complete ice advance.

[milod]

Dennis....

 

Yeah...

 

I don't think people realize just how close Jellystone is to potentially popping, even if they've seen a TV documentary or two on the potential of a true supervolcano.

 

Yellowstone could make Mt. St. Helens look like the pop of a firecracker compared to an A-bomb.

 

It has brought significant extinctions in the past.

 

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashfall_Fossil_Beds

 

Well, and another thing I talked about with the paleontologist - his background is geology more than biology per se - is the whole global warming thing he considers bunk. "Al Gore's 'hockey stick' curve only goes back 200 years," he said. "Look at records further back and we're at a peak of warming..." The fact that Greenland 1,000 years ago was farmed is an example that we're still cooler than then - and there were no factories or power plants at the time.

 

m

[Cruznolfart]

Milo, I'm trying to recall an article from a couple years back, a glacier in retreat. The warming enthusiasts gleefully pointed to the melting glacier as evidence of their theories. They were strangely quiet about the prehistoric tree trunks that were shown in the areas from which the glacier had retreated.

[milod]

Dennis...

 

You're right on. Where I am now it once was so hot and dry that there is virtually no evidence of human occupation.

 

The idea that the climate and sea levels now are a "normal" that we should do any and everything to somehow preserve seems ludicrous from that perspective. Also, a cupla major volcano eruptions could change stuff even more.

 

OTOH, human beings have burst the bonds of population growth factors. Funny thing is that I've not yet talked to a Chinese person who disapproves of their population measures. I know this is politically incorrect, but I've a hunch the world will see such laws everywhere at some point.

 

The problem is that you can talk people into damaging their own prosperity, but not potential for offspring. So that's where the political lines take us. Problem is, lessened prosperity creates problems for offspring and probably cuts birth rates. Already, as I understand it, most racial groups in the US are reproducing at something less than replacement.

 

What does this have to do with guitars?

 

It's twofold: First comes the question of quality woods versus so-called environmentalism, and second comes the question of the economy in general and how that might affect production and purchase of different sorts of guitars.

 

Well, we could go on and on, and get into politics 'stedda science. I'd rather not.

 

m

[TommyK]

I've lived in Illinois all my life. There was a nuke silo in Naperville. It was covered by a sliding bulk head that was camouflaged with what appeared to be growing corn. At the time it was built it was in the midst of a corn field and Naperville but a bucolic hamlet. Some time in the past 20 years, I don't know when it was decommed and filled in.

 

I grew up 30 some miles from Peoria. We believed it to be a prime target with it's heavy equipment manufacturing, Caterpillar and Wabco. During times of war Peoria made most of the power plants for things like ships and tanks. We all hoped to be a bit closer to ground zero. We figured life after the big blast would not be enjoyable.

[TommyK]

..

It was mentioned cautiously that we might not have adults to turn to afterwards.

...

 

Star Trek had an episode, "Miri", that dealt with this. The cause for the grown-ups, "Gr'ups" being absent wasn't nukes, but it did have a post nuke holocaust flavor to it.

[flyingarmadillo]

...

 

Well' date=' and another thing I talked about with the paleontologist - his background is geology more than biology per se - is the whole global warming thing he considers bunk. "Al Gore's 'hockey stick' curve only goes back 200 years," he said. "Look at records further back and we're at a peak of warming..." The fact that Greenland 1,000 years ago was farmed is an example that we're still cooler than then - and there were no factories or power plants at the time.

 

[/quote']

 

I'm a geologist and I think it's safe to say that about 80% of all geologists think that global warming, as a function of human activities, is a crock. The climate is cyclic and it should be remembered that there was a mile of ice over most of northern third of North America less than 15,000 years ago. Sea level then was 150 meters or so lower than it is today which (if you do the math) works out to a sea level rise of 1 meter/100 years - or exactly the predicted rise attributed to global warming over the next 100. Seems to be more of a natural cycle to me. Atmospheric CO2 levels in the last million years are the lowest they've been in the last 650 million years, and the climate in the last 10 million years is the coldest swing over that same time period (650 million years). Those are established facts that are being ignored. BTW, trees and plants need CO2 to grow - if you want more trees and plants, then you'd think that more CO2 should be a good thing.

[charlie brown]

I'm a geologist and I think it's safe to say that about 80% of all geologists think that global warming' date=' as a function of human activities, is a crock. The climate is cyclic and it should be remembered that there was a mile of ice over most of northern third of North America less than 15,000 years ago. Sea level then was 150 meters or so lower than it is today which (if you do the math) works out to a sea level rise of 1 meter/100 years - or exactly the predicted rise attributed to global warming over the next 100. Seems to be more of a natural cycle to me. Atmospheric CO2 levels in the last million years are the lowest they've been in the last 650 million years, and the climate in the last 10 million years is the coldest swing over that same time period (650 million years). Those are established facts that are being ignored. BTW, trees and plants need CO2 to grow - if you want more trees and plants, then you'd think that more CO2 should be a good thing.

[/quote']

 

 

Yeah, but there's no money, or publicity, in the truth! ;>b LOL!

 

CB

[TommyK]

Dennis...

... Problem is' date=' lessened prosperity creates problems for offspring and probably cuts birth rates. Already, as I understand it, most racial groups in the US are reproducing at something less than replacement.

...[/quote']

 

There's an old saw "The rich get richer and the poor have kids." Haiti is the poorest of the poor nations. Recent reporter articles indicate that the 'sale' or 'farming out' of children, by the poor is a way of life. They interviewed a woman who had 7 daughters and was in the process of placing two of them 12 and 16 with families unknown to her. Her daughters looked forward to a life of indentured servitude, cooking, cleaning and nannying.... if they are lucky. I'm not sure lessened prosperity reduces birth rates. Quite the contrary. In my opinion, it increases it. Possibly, possibly a specie's, our species, way of ensuring it's survival.

 

While, it seems, the large majority of those poor souls in Haiti are trying to do the right thing and help themselves out.. the rabble rousers are getting noticed. These are the ones who expect 'someone', anyone to hand them a bottle of water and 3 squares from now until dooms day. Hopefully, the good folks down their keep their heads and don't get caught up in the hysteria that is beginning to raise it's ugly self. Small micro-communities of several family units are congealing into groups that help each other, share resources, and the men folk are performing protective units for their small groups at night and during other high risk adventures, like finding water.

 

The maddening thing is that Venezuela has called our sending military help (the best help we've got to give) and 'invasion'. No surprise coming from Chavez, but the surprising.. or maybe not surprising is that France is backing up that rhetoric... No good deed goes unpunished, I guess.

 

How does this relate to 'Nuclear Holocaust"? Except for the lack of radioactivity.... What you see in Port-Au-Prince today is a glimpse into the post nuclear holocaust world...or post Yellowstone cataclysm depending upon whether we get ourselves or the Good Lord gets us first. The only difference is there will be no cavalry to save those who know no other survival technique than sitting on one's can with an empty hand out.

[jaxson50]

Let's see how many of my fellow old tymers remember these "news" stories?

1. Around 1960 the reports out of Seattle Wash. about windshields being pitted? It was believed that Russia was causing it by releasing radiation either from above ground testing or from their long range bombers that were flying along our west coast?

Turned out to be nothing but pitted windshield's.

2. Remember the big scare when Sputnik was launched? We all went out every 90 min.s after dark to see if it was going to blow up while over the US and rain radiation on us?

3. The air raid sirens going off every Monday at noon? Duck, Tuck & Roll?

In fairness I believe the threat of nuclear war prevented WWIII between NATO and Warsaw powers, it didn't stop those nations from fighting proxy wars in Vietnam and the Middle East, the Congo, and Afghanistan.

[charlie brown]

Let's see how many of my fellow old tymers remember these "news" stories?

1. Around 1960 the reports out of Seattle Wash. about windshields being pitted? It was believed that Russia was causing it by releasing radiation either from above ground testing or from their long range bombers that were flying along our west coast?

Turned out to be nothing but pitted windshield's.

2. Remember the big scare when Sputnik was launched? We all went out every 90 min.s after dark to see if it was going to blow up while over the US and rain radiation on us?

3. The air raid sirens going off every Monday at noon? Duck' date=' Tuck & Roll?[/b'] In fairness I believe the threat of nuclear war prevented WWIII between NATO and Warsaw powers, it didn't stop those nations from fighting proxy wars in Vietnam and the Middle East, the Congo, and Afghanistan.

 

Ha, Ha, Yeah...the "Air Raid" siren, still goes off (everyday, but Sunday), at noon...even today,

in my home town. We call it the "Noon Whistle." LOL! Most, except the "old timers," probably

don't even know, why that started. And, in the 50's and 60's...it was a long (15 seconds) siren.

Of course, the actual drills were random, and not at "noon," back then. But now, it's very brief...

just long enough to complete up to pitch, and down again...3-5 seconds, at most. It does double,

as a Tornado warning siren, and in that case, it goes off, longer, and more cycles.

 

 

CB

[SHO]

I can remember having drills on how to get to the shelter rooms in school when I was a kid in the early 80s. It wasn't all that dramatic though. It is kinda weird to see all those old shelters now. All public buildings built had to have them, schools, apartment buildings and so on, and now they are just used as storage space.

 

I do remember getting some really freaky info at school and through TV when Chernobyl blew though. Basically life as we knew it was going to come to an end! But I guess it can be justified as it took a while for people to get an idea of just what had happened and what the outcome would be.