rossnuk Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Hey - I am currently selling my j45 and I am debating on getting a j185 modern classic or the true vintage model. I see there is about a £400 price difference but can only see the difference lying in the fact that the TV model has white gotoh tuners and the MC has grovers. Surely there must be other differences - is the wood quality better on True Vintage - again both specs say they have the same AAA flame maple back and sides so I am confused. Help? Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryp58 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 The TV Series has pattern-grade woods, hide glue construction, vintage specs, bracing, and some models depending on finish have the "aged" toner applied. IMHO, the TV line is worth the extra bucks. The extra upgrades are worth the higher prices without being "excessive" or "ridiculous". (like some of the newer "signature" models) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I think the TV is not as heavily braced and therefore not as stiff as the MC. Plus the upgraded hardware. But then doesn't the MC come with electrics? Only your ears, heart and head will tell you if it's worth the extra 400 quid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Neil Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 Most of the newer TV/VOS models have Adirondack/red spruce tops. Tone wise they have a little more bass 'oomph' and sound more played in/opened up - like an older guitar. Plus the satin patina sunburst and faded ivory colored binding binding look gorgeous and quite authentic. I think they are the best value in the Gibson line. What you think, well, only you can answer that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 12, 2010 Author Share Posted February 12, 2010 do the orange labels state True vintage on them? - just want to make sure before I buy if it really is TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 ross- In classic Gibson style, the orange sound hole label doesn't necessarily state that it's a T.V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towzend Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 I have a J200 TV, and the sound is far better than the classic model, im really glad i bought the TV its (to me) more meaty'er solid sounding guitar, the classic has a brighter sound! go for what sound 'you' like! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swicket Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 What about the 'Big Sky' radius fretboard they advertise for the MC? Anyone have any thoughts on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryp58 Posted February 12, 2010 Share Posted February 12, 2010 do the orange labels state True vintage on them? - just want to make sure before I buy if it really is TV. Mine does not state it on the orange label. The TV line is constructed like a "vintage" guitar, so the serial number is stamped on the neck block inside the sound hole instead of on the back of the headstock. That's how you can determine the TV line. As to my knowledge, no TV line of guitar actually says "True Vintage" on it anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgwoods Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I have my J-185 TV here in front of me. The serial number is on the back of the head stock. It does not say TV on it anywhere. I has the Kluson style "green" tuners, and Maltese crosses on the bridge and Madagascar rosewood for the fretboard and bridge. Also it came with a special case- brown outside, pink liner(!), very robust. Mine is not very "flamey" on the back or sides. It is an outstanding guitar- quite loud, excellent tone and playability. I have bought and sold several Gibsons and this on is my keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgwoods Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 J-185 TVs do not have Adirondack tops, they are all sitka, although I did see where Fullers has one they specified as Adirondack- that is not the norm for the model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hey jgwoods - could you have a look at Guitar Guitar website - they have a j185 which they claim is TV but i called them today and they said they were not sure - it has the historic logo on the back of the headstock but also has the serial number on the back of the headstock as well. It looks like yours - has those crosses on the bridge - what do you think or cant you tell. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oubaas Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 The difference is, with the TV's, they come with a built-in television. With the MC's, you get a free motorcycle. I hope this has been helpful. Cheers! Rick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgwoods Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 Hey jgwoods - could you have a look at Guitar Guitar website - they have a j185 which they claim is TV but i called them today and they said they were not sure - it has the historic logo on the back of the headstock but also has the serial number on the back of the headstock as well. It looks like yours - has those crosses on the bridge - what do you think or cant you tell. Ross It looks right to me, except for the decal on the back of the head stock. Tuners are right, label too, Maltese crosses, can't tell what wood makes up the fretboard- Madagascar often has stripes and this does not- but it still may be. I think there's another possibility- that Gibson made a few Historic Collection J-185 that are a few years earlier than the TV series but generally with the same specifications( minus the Madagascar Rosewood which was not available then, and won't be available in the future either if the Madagascar government gets its act together and protects precious forests. ) I don't track Gibson close enough to know when they made what but my guess is that the TVs were made 2006-2009(?). Before that there are the Historic Collection guitars made - guessing here- 200 to 2005 or so. Exact specs...beats me. People say the TVs have upgraded wood, hide glue etc.. I am not so sure about the glue and there's no way to know except to ask the guys in Montana, and as for the wood grades I bet they chose better wod for what they knew would be higher priced guitars but exact grading, I don't know. The liklihood of getting a good guitar in the TV line is higher than in the MC line perhaps, and you do get a nice case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 13, 2010 Author Share Posted February 13, 2010 yeah - he said on the phone it is a 2005 model historic - could it be a TV still? Interesting as he has lowered the price to £1599 instead of £1699 after my phone call. The crosses seem to make me think it may be something a bit more special than a standard j185. I may go play it. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickitPaul Posted February 13, 2010 Share Posted February 13, 2010 I think the T.V.'s were introduced in 2007 & ended in '08, but they will build it custom if still wanted. My Southern Jumbo T.V. has serial number on the inside block, not on back of headstock. This guitar is from '07, and picked it up used on e-bay. Not Adi but Sitka top. Back & sides are dark, so can't really make out the figure of the mahogany unless in direct sun. I sold my 'bird to get it, which was a historic 2005. This is built with lighter back braces, and has lighter bracing under the top with a wide x, like the Adv. Jumbo. This guitar is not goin' anywhere, it is one of the great ones. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eds111 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Ross I've been watching the J185 for years. Before the current MC version and before the TV came out the J185 did have the crosses. If the guitar has the "Historic" sticker, that nomenclature predates the TV series. I recall when the J185 TV came out it looked no different from the prior model, then I noticed they took the crosses off the MC and changed the tuners. Another thought: I don't believe any TV's ever had a factory installed pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 I used to have a j45 that was a historic - it had the logo on the back of the headstock - there was no difference in price. hey eds 11 -can we safely rule out the j185 historic being a TV then? The more i see that j185 TV antique in Guitar Guitar - makes me think - is this the new Daddy of the Gibson acoustics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 14, 2010 Author Share Posted February 14, 2010 Does the j185 have a AAA top? It says on the spec it is a premium sitka spruce top and AAA maple back and sides - I would have thought it would have top to go with it? Trying to also figure out why the price differnce is £1000 between j185 and j200 TV models when on the Gibson site - they are apparently made with the same woods and materials. Any light? Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 is the j200 standard got madagascar woods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgwoods Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I don't think Madagascar rosewood has been used on any but um, fancier, pricier, models- TVs, Customs, etc. My J-185 pictured above has Madagascar rosewood on it- often distinguished by the stripes- look at the long stripe on the fretboard. Frankly I think it is wasted as bridge and fretboard wood where it has little effect on tone and it's beauty is questionable- which is to say not everyone likes a striped fretboard like mine has. I know I could spot mine in a pile of J-185s because of it though! Since Gibson got raided by the feds over compliance with CITES(?) - international regs on possession and use of rare woods like Braz rosewood, pernambuco etc.- we are all finding out about Madagascar rosewood which suddenly appeared on the market and was highly touted as rare, fabulous, wood. It seems that the government of Madagascar has had some troubles and they allowed harvesting of rosewood which most any environmental experts would have declared off limits- too rare, supports endangered species etc. The harvesting may still be going on, but I think you will see it disappear from instruments like Brazilian has- too much political baggage and rising prices. We are running out of wood. Bottom line for me- I have Madagascar on my J-185 TV. It would be just as good if it didn't have it. I suppose, given its rarity, that I might get more for my guitar if I sell it. Then again I might get less because it is striped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossnuk Posted February 15, 2010 Author Share Posted February 15, 2010 cheers jgwoods - Going to go play the j185 TV tomorrow again - and play it for longer. How would you say your j185 differs in sound from a j200? Just a j200 standard is out of my price range. Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgwoods Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 cheers jgwoods - Going to go play the j185 TV tomorrow again - and play it for longer. How would you say your j185 differs in sound from a j200? Just a j200 standard is out of my price range. Ross I had a J-200 10 years ago, haven't played one since so comparisons are limited. I think there are 3 big differences between the J-185 and J-200 J-185 is short scale, mahogany neck, 16" lower bout J-200 is long scale, maple neck, 17" Lower bout. Results- if you are a big strummer a J-200 is great- Pete Townsend. A box that big needs maple everywhere in my opinion or it gets boomy and a little muddy- note separation is not so good (ymmv). The long scale can make for a more powerful instrument, and you can hit it as hard as you want - it won't overdrive. The J-185 is more versatile, the smaller box and mahogany neck give a sweeter tone, if slightly less volume. Its a fine finger picker yet I can play a fast flatpicked fiddle tune on it as well- better than I can on my Martin OM. I like the J-185 for its tone, for its smaller body compared to the giant J-200, the short scale really suits me too as I am not using it for trying to cut through in a big jam, so it has enough power for me. I can do everything I want with it and it has the right amount of bling for me. J-200s are a little too showy for my taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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