Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 For those who frequent both forums.... Sorry but I also posted this at the AGF for luthier/tech comments and help... Yesterday I made what I thought (and actually still do think) was a good trade. I had a Strat copy made by Lace Huntington that was not going to be getting any more play time since I got my 1979 "The Paul" so I traded it on Craigslist to a guy offering a 1961 Harmony Sovereign 1203 model guitar. It has a solid Sitka top and Solid (One piece) mahogany back. It is in beautiful condition save for one scratch in the finish on the front. So I did my normal cleaning thing, fretboard, frets etc and then put on a brand new set of Elixir PB Nano 12-53 gauge strings I had in my drawer. Man.... it sounded awesome!!! Like my Gibson LG1 but on Steroids. This ladder braced solid wood beauty was a Keeper for sure!!! Then it happened. After a few hours of playing, all of a sudden I noticed that the low E and A string were going drastically out of tune. As I tuned it back up, I heard a slight "Cracking" sound. I looked at the bridge just in time to watch the part of the bridge where the ball ends go through (This is a pinless bridge on the Harmony Sovereign) rip off the bridge making a noise that actually got my 16 year old daughter to get off the couch in the other room to see what happened! Now I am wondering what my next step should be. I am keeping the guitar, so don't recommend I trade it back. I know this should not be a too expensive fix. My thoughts are to have it converted to a pinned bridge. There is already a nice Maple Bridge plate on the inside that I noticed when checking the braces with my automotive mirror. I have also heard this was not so uncommon in the past for the Harmony Pinless Bridges to be converted into Pinned bridges. Would I have to have the old bridge completely removed or can a repair guy work with the existing bridge as that is still securely glued to the top of the guitar? Here are a couple "Before" and "After" shots... (Sorry about the after shots but my digital camera also decided to go on the fritz and I have no flash! (What a day!!! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KL Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 The good news is that it can be repaired and will be as good as new. Whether you get a luthier to make a new bridge the same as the old one, or have it converted is your call, but whatever you decide it should be ok when it's fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 too bad about that but i still think you came out ahead. harmony made great guitars in that era - i think in a chicago factory. i was gassing rather badly for the 1260, 1265 etc and some of the jumbos from that era. there's one model in particular that was black and had an aluminum binding. your's looks to be not too serious. ksd will surely advise. once again, nice find. we could call you the craigslist killer....er...well...maybe that's not a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Depends on how far you want to go with it. To make a new bridge is a pretty involved process, would be the most expensive fix, but would be the prettiest. If a customer handed me that guitar and said "fix it and keep it under $50" I'd just glue the broken piece back on, then head for the hardware store and get some machine screws with decorative heads, like the antique brass looking ones that come with cabinet or drawer knobs. Three of them. One between the D and G, the other two outboard of the Es. It wouldn't look perfect but it would hold, and would buy you a lot of time if you decided to go nuts and have a pin bridge made. I don't mean 'nuts' like it sounds, but it would become elective surgery and would take any sense of urgency off the situation. And Kay/Harmony used those screws daily and they didn't look stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 +1 on putting the broken bridge back together. Nice guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Here's an old Airline with the hardware store bolts. I would have recommended coutersinking machine screws and then inlaying pearl dots but your bridge is on the thin side to begin with; hard to say if that would hold. Why they used a pinless classical style bridge is beyond me. I've seen pinless bridges on old Chicago-based guitars but they were a bit more stout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 TP - you done real well especially if the guitar has a straight neck (the combination of the big top and ladder bracing played havoc with the necks on these guitars). That looks to be a Sovereign 1203. Not sure if it has the date stamp but the body shape and block letter logo does date it to sometime in the late 1950s or early 1960s. And it is definitely worth getting fixed up. The Sovereign 1203, 1260, and 1266 (and 1270 12 string) are incredible guitars. They may be ladder baced but it ain't that brutish perpendicular cut stuff Harmony used on the Stellas and others. The Sovereigns have one of the best low ends I have heard on any guitar and while they ain't a 1950s or 1960s Martin D-18, they sure will get you in the ballpark. I own a late 1950s or early 1960s Sovereign 1260 - it has a lower bout darn near as big as a J-200 plus the pinless bridge. Here she be proudly perched next to my Gibsons. Since this pic was taken I have slapped a dark tortise shell pickguard on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 Depends on how far you want to go with it. To make a new bridge is a pretty involved process' date=' would be the most expensive fix, but would be the prettiest. If a customer handed me that guitar and said "fix it and keep it under $50" I'd just glue the broken piece back on, then head for the hardware store and get some machine screws with decorative heads, like the antique brass looking ones that come with cabinet or drawer knobs. Three of them. One between the D and G, the other two outboard of the Es. It wouldn't look perfect but it would hold, and would buy you a lot of time if you decided to go nuts and have a pin bridge made. I don't mean 'nuts' like it sounds, but it would become elective surgery and would take any sense of urgency off the situation. And Kay/Harmony used those screws daily and they didn't look stupid.[/quote'] Let's just say, I like plan "B" better. I don't really have much invested in the Harmony at this point due to the whole Trading thing.... Let's just say this ended up being a freebie to me so I would rather try and do a "fix-it" type thing and maybe even do it myself.... Would Elmers "Wood" glue work or should I be looking for something stonger? I have clamps that would work to hold it together and I like the screw idea. Any particular size I should be looking for? I assume a pilot hole at the proper points to start the screw and then just go in slow? What is the worst that could happen if I try it myself. With my recent "free" Framus 12 string I did the bolt on neck reset and got everything working which to me was quite the accomplishment. I would love to try a "home" fix on this Harmony as it is destined to be my office noodle guitar and for deck parties and such.... By the way, in the trade I got the original very cool "retro" blue/grey chipboard case with blue felt liner... in really good condition as well!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 TP - you done real well especially if the guitar has a straight neck (the combination of the big top and ladder bracing played havoc with the necks on these guitars). That looks to be a Sovereign 1203. Not sure if it has the date stamp but the body shape and block letter logo does date it to sometime in the late 1950s or early 1960s. And it is definitely worth getting fixed up. The Sovereign 1203' date=' 1260, and 1266 (and 1270 12 string) are incredible guitars. They may be ladder baced but it ain't that brutish perpendicular cut stuff Harmony used on the Stellas and others. The Sovereigns have one of the best low ends I have heard on any guitar and while they ain't a 1950s or 1960s Martin D-18, they sure will get you in the ballpark. I own a late 1950s or early 1960s Sovereign 1260 - it has a lower bout darn near as big as a J-200. Here she be proudly perched next to my Gibsons. Since this pic was taken I have slapped a dark tortise shell pickguard on her.[/quote'] Hey ZW... I was hoping you would chime in... I have read several of your old posts during my information search on Harmony Soveriegn guitars. Yes this is a 1203.... Serial #1135H1203 and the only part of the date stamp I can make out is F-61 -?? Also... this is by far the lightest weight acoustic I own... significantly lighter than the slightly smaller size LG1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Fall 1961, very nice. Prior to the 1960s Harmony often put the date stamp on the underside of the top near the soundhole. Not sure if yours once had a pickguard but I have seen some older 1203s that were made without one. The problems with Sovereigns is the value to those of us who own them far exceeds their value in terms of dollars on the open market. So if you spend alot of scratch putting them back on the road you more than likely will never recoup your money. But I would not trade mine for guitars costing more than ten times what I scored mine for. Just a suggestion but you might try and find a parts guitar. Harmony made a ton of these guitars and as I said, Sovereigns are plagued with inky necks. You might keep an eye peeled on eBay or local shops for one you can score on the cheap and snag the bridge off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 F-61 probably means Fall 1961. The screws you'll want are machine screws so they will have washers and nuts on the other side; just drill the holes to match the diameter of the screw itself. The "head" end of the screw may or may not have a knurled or flattened section to bite into the wood. It may not want to drive all the way home until you go inside with a little wrench or socket to tighten it. No particular size to look for, anything in the 1/8"-3/16" range should be fine. If you take your time gluing the broken piece of the bridge back on, you can sand the seam with finer and finer paper and then buff with steel wool..... it will be just about invisible when you're done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 Fall 1961' date=' very nice. Prior to the 1960s Harmony often put the date stamp on the underside of the top near the soundhole. Not sure if yours once had a pickguard but I have seen some older 1203s that were made without one. The problems with Sovereigns is the value to those of us who own them far exceeds their value in terms of dollars on the open market. So if you spend alot of scratch putting them back on the road you more than likely will never recoup your money. But I would not trade mine for guitars costing more than ten times what I cored mine for. Just a suggestion but you might try and find a parts guitar. Harmony made a ton of these guitars and as I said, Sovereigns are plagued with inky necks. You might keep an eye peeled on eBay or local shops for one you can score on the cheap and snag the bridge off of it.[/quote'] The pickguard that was on it was 90% unglued when I got it. It actually looked almost like some sort of double stick tape holding it on in a few places. I slowly peeled it off and cleaned all the gum off with Naptha. It has a tan line, but I am leaving it off as when repaired this is going to be all fingerstyle use. I am going to go look at screws. I am assuming very small and just long enough to grip the wood on the bridge, not go into the guitar itself? I went and fit the pieces together and it fits like a glove and there should be space for ksdaddys screw recommendation. It might not be pretty, but like I said, this is going to be my beater anyway. It just sounded soooo good yesterday, I need to make it play again and I have to do it on the cheap or my wife will........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 do you use screws or bolts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 F-61 probably means Fall 1961. The screws you'll want are machine screws so they will have washers and nuts on the other side; just drill the holes to match the diameter of the screw itself. The "head" end of the screw may or may not have a knurled or flattened section to bite into the wood. It may not want to drive all the way home until you go inside with a little wrench or socket to tighten it. No particular size to look for' date=' anything in the 1/8"-3/16" range should be fine. If you take your time gluing the broken piece of the bridge back on, you can sand the seam with finer and finer paper and then buff with steel wool..... it will be just about invisible when you're done.[/quote'] I get it... .I was thinking just very small wood screws and only going into the bridge. Your way makes sense and since there is already a nice maple bridgeplate there, there will be more structure that way. I think this is something I can do.... Once more, I will ask if Elmers yellow wood glue will be the best to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 I like any yellow glue. One thing I've found (the hard way) is when you clean up the excess, do so with a damp cloth or paper towel, not sopping wet, as would be the temptation. You don't want any excess water seeping into the joint. Sounds elementary but it's better to use more elbow grease and less water. In fact with a little planning you could forego clamping; you might be able to just use the new bolts to squeeze the pieces together while the glue is wet. Shoot, I've reglued pin bridges by running machine screws through the pin holes and nutting them on the other side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 In looking at the small amount of space I have, I am tempted to just try using two machine screws,.... I was thinking between the low e and b strings and between the E and the A...... I am afraid of how small an area I have to work with and less chance of the glued piece splitting.... Would that give enough stability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 That, in addition to a good glue job, would probably be fine. Resist the temptation to string it up for a couple days though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 That' date=' in addition to a good glue job, would probably be fine. Resist the temptation to string it up for a couple days though.[/quote'] Well, I did it and have to say it worked great and doesn't look "too" bad.... :- I actually had a couple of decorative caps for the machine screws in my tool drawer and I am glad as the hardware store had nothing but silver caps.... and nothing decorative. I used a small drill bit and first drilled my pilot holes in the broken off piece. I fit the two pieces together and then very slowly and progressively made larger holes all the way through until it fit my 8/32" bolts. I used my yellow wood glue and glued the two pieces together put my bolts through and tightend from the inside. I used some larger circle washers to spread the tension somewhat so hopefully that will help. I am going to wait until at least Monday prior to stringing her back up.... I will post photos later of what I have done so far and the completed project. Thanks for the advice and encouragement. I would have never tried this without the advice of you guys, the Mod-Father in particular! Thanks Scott!!! It will be great if I get her playing again this cheap and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 7, 2010 Author Share Posted August 7, 2010 Couple of shots of the "After" project..... Wish I could have found some flat decorative end pieces, but overall, not too bad looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 8, 2010 Author Share Posted August 8, 2010 Any thoughts on if I should use lighter gauge strings than my normal 12-53 Elixirs when I go to restring tomorrow? Should I maybe tune D to D instead of E to E like I have done with my Framus 12 string? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Nah, use the regular lights. It ain't moving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Paul, these are great guitars....the ladder bracing really makes for a unique sound. Not only does your guitar have a solid top, the back is made from a single piece of solid Mahogany as are the sides. The guitar is assembled with Hyde glue, and Brazillian Rosewood on the Fretboard. Here is a Harmony Database for your guitar, just type in 1203. http://harmony.demont.net/search.php On that page you will see that Harmony built the same guitar under many different names, and some of the models had pin bridges. So your guitar can definitely handle a pin bridge. I think the original bridges, which are like a classical guitar bridge pull more on the top, and you can see that either the bridge splits like yours, or lifts off the top, a common problem with these guitars. These are just amazing guitars, and hopefully you can get it repaired and get to playing quickly!!! Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drathbun Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 Congrats on what looks like an excellent, practical and good looking repair. I bet it sounds sweeter because you did the work yourself (kinda like cooking). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted August 8, 2010 Share Posted August 8, 2010 nice job, tp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted August 9, 2010 Author Share Posted August 9, 2010 Paul' date=' these are great guitars....the ladder bracing really makes for a unique sound. Not only does your guitar have a solid top, the back is made from a single piece of solid Mahogany as are the sides. The guitar is assembled with Hyde glue, and Brazillian Rosewood on the Fretboard. Here is a Harmony Database for your guitar, just type in 1203. http://harmony.demont.net/search.php On that page you will see that Harmony built the same guitar under many different names, and some of the models had pin bridges. So your guitar can definitely handle a pin bridge. I think the original bridges, which are like a classical guitar bridge pull more on the top, and you can see that either the bridge splits like yours, or lifts off the top, a common problem with these guitars. These are just amazing guitars, and hopefully you can get it repaired and get to playing quickly!!! Good luck![/quote'] I had done my internet research prior to accepting his trade offer and stumbled on that site. As soon as I saw the page you linked above about the 1203 and being a top of the line solid wood guitar, I was hooked. I still didn't realize how good it would sound. The first couple hours of playing it before the bridge popped was amazing! I couldn't wait any longer. I spent the day with my wife at an art festival in our city and saw some beautiful stuff, but my mind kept wandering back to the Harmony. I couldnt't wait to get home. I put the same set of strings that were on her when the bridge snapped, and put it up to D to D tuning; I played it that way for about a half hour and then decided to go all the way...... I have been playing it for the last hour and a half and the tuning has been stable and more importantly... the tone!!!! OH MY GOD...... this thing sounds amazing!!! I love the bluesy tone of my LG1 but I know if the LG1 has one fault is that it is lost in any mix when playing with other people. Alone, it is a beautiful sounding blues guitar, but with any other guitars around you can not hear the guitar at all. This guitar has the same type of ladder braced tone but with a volume that will not be lost in any mix. It is signifcantly lighter in weight than my 64 LG1 and is easily the lightest guitar I own. You can literally feel the bass notes resonate through the body against your chest when you play it. I don't know what percentage of Harmony guitars were solid wood like this, but man.... this is some great wood!!! The single piece mahogany back has zero wear on it. The grain and silking I see are beautiful. All I can say is if my home repair does not hold, I will be taking it into a luthier I know to put in a new bridge and then have pins put in as well, but if it holds.... I am still one happy camper! This thing is off the chart amazing for tone! Here is a photo of the happy family all together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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