Johno Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Here's a few guys that don't quite get their due when it comes to guitar god status: David Hidalgo of Los Lobos Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues Steve Winwood Jonny Lang Waddy Wachtell Danny Kortchmar John Mayer Derek Trucks Ernie Isley Eric Gales Johnny "Guitar" Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I think this thread reflects a statement that Duane Allman made to a radio station interviewer in 1970. The interviewer asked Duane how it felt to known as the greatest guitar player ever to hit the charts. Duane replied that there were 10,000 guitar players out there playing in bars that could play rings around him. He was just lucky to be picked up by a major label. (paraphrased) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Adrian Legg - absolutely unique style, writes fine tunes, tells good stories. If you're not familiar with him, you're in for a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amino Moore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Here's a few guys that don't quite get their due when it comes to guitar god status: David Hidalgo of Los Lobos Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues Steve Winwood Jonny Lang Waddy Wachtell Danny Kortchmar John Mayer Derek Trucks Ernie Isley Eric Gales Johnny "Guitar" Watson Johno, I gotta say you are right on with that list. Especially Danny Kortchmar. didn't he play with Jackson Browne and James Taylor? And Derek Trucks is really a natural talent. No pretense. His performance on the 07 Crossroads video is really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amino Moore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Here's a few guys that don't quite get their due when it comes to guitar god status: David Hidalgo of Los Lobos Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues Steve Winwood Jonny Lang Waddy Wachtell Danny Kortchmar John Mayer Derek Trucks Ernie Isley Eric Gales Johnny "Guitar" Watson Johno, I gotta say you are right on with that list. Especially Danny Kortchmar. didn't he play with Jackson Browne and James Taylor? And Derek Trucks is really a natural talent. No pretense. His performance on the 07 Crossroads video is really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amino Moore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Here's a few guys that don't quite get their due when it comes to guitar god status: David Hidalgo of Los Lobos Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues Steve Winwood Jonny Lang Waddy Wachtell Danny Kortchmar John Mayer Derek Trucks Ernie Isley Eric Gales Johnny "Guitar" Watson Johno, I gotta say you are right on with that list. Especially Danny Kortchmar. didn't he play with Jackson Browne and James Taylor? And Derek Trucks is really a natural talent. No pretense. His performance on the 07 Crossroads video is really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amino Moore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Here's a few guys that don't quite get their due when it comes to guitar god status: David Hidalgo of Los Lobos Justin Hayward of the Moody Blues Steve Winwood Jonny Lang Waddy Wachtell Danny Kortchmar John Mayer Derek Trucks Ernie Isley Eric Gales Johnny "Guitar" Watson Johno, I gotta say you are right on with that list. Especially Danny Kortchmar. didn't he play with Jackson Browne and James Taylor? And Derek Trucks is really a natural talent. No pretense. His performance on the 07 Crossroads video is really great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 <...> Duane replied that there were 10' date='000 guitar players out there playing in bars that could play rings around him. He was just lucky to be picked up by a major label. (paraphrased)[/quote'] A similar thing happened to me. I was playing in the Hyatt of the Palm Beaches when tenor saxophonist Tom Scott came in the lounge after leading the band for a Steve Lawrence and Edie Gorme show at (I think) the convention center across the street. We got to talking about music and he said (paraphrased) that "there was a sax player in a Holiday Inn somewhere, perhaps in Valparaiso Indiana that could put him [Tom] in his back pocket". He went on to say that "He [Tom] was simply in the right place, at the right time, and didn't blow the break because he shows up on the gig straight, prepared and on time." There is a guitarist in my town (Fort Pierce, Florida) that could blow away half the people mentioned on this thread, but he wasn't in the right place at the right time and gigs locally and teaches at a music store. I'm sure there are people on this list that can also play as well (not me on guitar, but yes me on saxophone). I was almost in the right place at the right time. Back in the late 1960s, our band was the first choice to become Rare Earth. We were warming up (in concert) for major stars while their songs were number one on Billboard, and Berry Gordy from Motown took a liking to us. At the time Bob Seger was cranking out number one songs in Detroit and Berry figured he needed a white group for Motown. Previous to Seger, the Motown acts dominated the local Detroit charts. We were his first choice. However, our manager hired some lawyers to negotiate for us, and the lawyers were to be paid a percentage of our record royalties. In hindsight, that was a bad way to pay them, but we were just kids then and our manager handled all of that. The lawyers started at 4 cents per record and full publishing rights. After each negotiation with Motown they would come back with, phrases like "Maybe we can get 3.5 cents and share publishing rights". Each time the expectations got lower and lower and finally one day, Motown quit talking and hired their second choice, The Sunliners, and renamed them the already chosen name (and record subsidiary), Rare Earth. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amino Moore Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Sorry for the multiple replies guys. I don't know what happened. I only posted once and it said the forums were offline so I logged out and logged back in to find my reply on there 4 times. Kinda weird! I guess the ghost in the machine of the old forum may still be with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Amino: Delete 'em, dude - it's nice that this site allows deletions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Amino Moore said (several times, in fact): And Derek Trucks is really a natural talent. No pretense. His performance on the 07 Crossroads video is really great. He sure is. I saw him in person a few years ago, and was knocked out by his tone, ideas, fluidity and naturalness of expression. There is not a shred of doubt in my mind that he is Duane Allman reincarnated. This isn't to say he plays like a carbon copy of Duane --- Derek is his own man for sure, but the spirit, vibe and flavor sure do seem like a further evolution of the same being. I'm not intending to impose a belief in reincarnation on anyone who rejects the idea, I'm just calling it like I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 The lawyers started at 4 cents per record and full publishing rights. After each negotiation with Motown they would come back with' date=' phrases like "Maybe we can get 3.5 cents and share publishing rights". Notes[/quote'] Wow! What a deal they were offering! (not!) If you had sold your soul, and somehow they managed to sell 100K of records with 4 cents royalty, you would get $4000 for all your effort and troubles, and lost out any future royalties on the music/lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I believe in reinGUITARnation......lol............J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyelcrrt1281733995 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'm not intending to impose a belief in reincarnation on anyone who rejects the idea' date=' I'm just calling it like I see it.[/quote'] Thing is, I'm not sure its possible to have been bad enough in my previous life so that I deserved this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johno Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 "Yeah, there's thirteen hundred and fifty two Guitar cases in Nashville And anyone that unpacks his guitar could play Twice as better than I will" - "Nashville Cats" - The Lovin' Spoonful - 1966 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wow! What a deal they were offering! (not!) If you had sold your soul' date=' and somehow they managed to sell 100K of records with 4 cents royalty, you would get $4000 for all your effort and troubles, and lost out any future royalties on the music/lyrics.[/quote'] Four cents was our first offer. It went down from there. The last offer we made before they quit talking to us was 2 cents per record and no publishing royalties. Still, we should have taken whatever they offered, and then lived off public performances for many years after that. But since the lawyers were going to make a percentage of record sales, they pushed too hard on that aspect and Motown just decided we were going to be much more expensive than the Sunliners (who were also a very good group). What I found out is that most recording artists don't make anything on their recordings until they have a second or third hit album. The artists have to pay their recording and the record/CD promotion fees out of their royalties, and the record companies quit promoting the recording when the fees are paid off. (Of course there are exceptions, notably people who are related to others in the business.) If the recording becomes a runaway hit that lasts from its own inertia after the promotion is finished, then you might make some money. And you can make a better deal on the second recording. After you make a few hit records, you become an "automatic" and you can make a good deal with the record company. If your recording is not a runaway hit after the promotion ends, you will most likely become what in the vinyl days was a "one-hit-wonder" and now in the digital age a "one-CD-wonder" (usually 3 hits). Even if you are a one-hit-wonder and haven't paid off the recording/promotion fees -- as long as you have the T-shirt concession and can make money off your touring/ticket sales, you can still come away making a buck. Better bucks than playing in a Holiday Inn in Valparaiso Indiana anyway. Furthermore, if you have a number one recording on Billboard, you can make lots of money in personal performances for about 10 years. People will pay more to see a has-been-name than a never-was-name. I remember warming up in concert for "The Association" when Cherish was the number one hit on Billboard (this was before Motown). I don't remember exactly what year that was, but I'd guess 1966 give or take a year. We did a couple of shows with them and got friendly with the musicians. What we found out is that while we were making $200 per show and they were making $2,000 per show. That was a lot of money in the 60s when gas was .33 per gallon and journeyman electricians were making about $100 per week. (Note, according to the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis' web site, $200 in 1966 is worth $1330.86 in today's dollars) Anyway, after Motown dropped us, our morale went down and the band eventually broke up. I went from making $200 per show, two 45 minute shows a week, to joining another band making $90 per week in a lounge, 6 nights a week from 9 'till 2. That is when I decided to get out of the music business (but I couldn't stay out because it is not what I do, it's what I am) The brush with stardom was nice while it lasted and playing music, even if you aren't famous, is better than any day job I can think of Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 "Yeah' date=' there's thirteen hundred and fifty two Guitar cases in Nashville And anyone that unpacks his guitar could play Twice as better than I will" - "Nashville Cats" - The Lovin' Spoonful - 1966[/quote'] Thanks, I forgot about that song ;-) Notes BTW, has anyone mentioned Rick Derringer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Saw Rick Derringer on a newer PBS 60s rock show last night - he was so bad it was embarassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I know a guy who's deceased father-in-law wrote 5 songs that were published and recorded by Hoagy Carmichael. His wife still gets 2 cents per air play and $1200 for live performance/re-recording rights (if they get caught). I think the royalties favor the song writer versus the CD sales royalty for the musicians. Derek Trucks is truly a natural talent. I could sit and listen to him play blues-rock with the ABB all night. I don't particularly care for most of the far eastern sound in his own creations, though. They seem to drone on and on. I know Ronnie Hammond, the lead singer for ARS. We grew up playing in different bands at the same time and were in each other's circle of musician friends. He said that Buddie Buie, the manager for the Atlanta Rhythm Section made little suggestions on every song they wrote and got himself into the air play royalties. Lots of people do that and share the pie. If you look at the credits for the songs, his name is there on most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 <...> I think the royalties favor the song writer versus the CD sales royalty for the musicians. The songwriter and the publisher get the bulk of the royalty money - much more than the musicians. <...>He said that Buddie Buie' date=' the manager for the Atlanta Rhythm Section made little suggestions on every song they wrote and got himself into the air play royalties. Lots of people do that and share the pie. <...>[/quote'] Often a song writer will gladly share the royalties because he/she knows that is what will make his/her song a hit. I recall reading an interview with Otis Blackwell many years ago. Referring to the songs he shared writing credits with Elvis Presley' date=' he remarked that even though Elvis didn't write a single note or word of any of the songs, he was happy to share the credits, as long as iit meant Elvis was going to sing the song, because he knew that it would sell at least a million copies that way. Saw Rick Derringer on a newer PBS 60s rock show last night - he was so bad it was embarassing. That is sad to hear. He sat in with our band in the late 60s and I remember being impressed. It happens to a lot of people as they age. I don't know what it is, do they simply lose the fire or are they so busy happily spending their money that they don't practice anymore? On the other hand, some others seem to get better as they age. I hope I am in this group. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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