GottaBeGibson Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I was browsing GraphTech's website and saw they now make a fully compensated Tusq saddle (PQ-9280-C0). I'm wondering if anyone here has tried one of these (or similar product from another maker) in their guitar and if so, what their thoughts were on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bs Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 If you have intonation problems, a fully compensated saddle may be the answer. I have a fully compensated bone saddle on my H'bird. Having the bone in there improved the tone, but not as much as switching to Gibson strings did. I can't really say how much the compensated bone saddle contributed to solving the intonation problem, except that the saddle by itself wasn't enough. Whether the truss rod adjustment would have done the trick without the saddle, I'll never know. It sounds great right now, and like the man says, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWilson Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I was browsing GraphTech's website and saw they now make a fully compensated Tusq saddle (PQ-9280-C0). I'm wondering if anyone here has tried one of these (or similar product from another maker) in their guitar and if so' date=' what their thoughts were on it.[/quote'] What's the difference between a compensated saddle, and a "fully" compensated saddle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesLawrence Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 The TusQ "fully" compensated saddle is compensated on both the A and B strings. My 2007 Sheryl Crow has a TusQ saddle that is only compensated on the B string. I don't think the TusQ fully compensated is that new because I have one on my Seagull M6, and I bought it used a year ago. Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Anyone remember when Gibson first started to use the compensated saddle in their acoustics? I don't recall them being on the 60's and 70's models. I also don't remember any intonations problems either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 I also don't remember any intonations problems either. Probably because we were using medium gauge Black Diamonds and playing cowboy chords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Probably because we were using medium gauge Black Diamonds and playing cowboy chords. I still am mate, I still am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Couple of thoughts here: TUSQ is another word for plastic - albeit a hard and dense, ivory-like one. An off-the-shelf compensated bridge (partial or fully) will only ever be a guess - it assumes certain string materials, certain string gauges, certain nut height, certain fingering force/style. Even a wound or plain G is assumed. Change any one of those and things will be a smidgin off. Find the bridge/string combination that works and stick to it, I guess..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesLawrence Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Couple of thoughts here: Find the bridge/string combination that works and stick to it' date=' I guess.....[/quote'] Agreed, but one still wonders why one manufacturer chooses to use a saddle with 2 string compensation while another uses compensation only on one string Cheers, Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Leslawrence..... Differences in string mass, tension, length and fretting stretch all effect the pitch of fretted notes. String length is added to the actual scale length to off-set the sharpening of the note which occurs when the string is stretched while being fretted. Greater string size differences on acoustic steel-strung guitars make this compensation more pronounced than on a classical guitar, where the individual strings are (relatively) more similar. Compensation can also be applied (to quite good effect) at the nut - but again, only for a specific set up of string gauges and action heights. It is all a compromise - and one of the larger factors is cost of manufacture. A standard straight bridge is cheaper than a canted bridge, which is in turn cheaper than an individual string compensation profile, the more individual string compensation, the more the cost - and on top of that you can never second-guess the end user's string choice further on down the line. So many makers choose a basic, low cost canted or angled but straight profile bridge - a good compromise between cost and intonation. More up-market luthiers apply more stringent intonation criteria, and expect their more discerning customers to (a) pay more and ( maintain gauge and tension as specified. Equal temper is a compromise. Bridge cost versus intonation perfection is a compromise. I hear tell for some folks, LIFE is a compromise. But that ain't how I tune[-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsc Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Leslawrence..... Differences in string mass' date=' tension, length and fretting stretch all effect the pitch of fretted notes. String length is added to the actual scale length to off-set the sharpening of the note which occurs when the string is stretched while being fretted. Greater string size differences on acoustic steel-strung guitars make this compensation more pronounced than on a classical guitar, where the individual strings are (relatively) more similar. Compensation can also be applied (to quite good effect) at the nut - but again, only for a specific set up of string gauges and action heights. [u']It is all a compromise[/u] - and one of the larger factors is cost of manufacture. A standard straight bridge is cheaper than a canted bridge, which is in turn cheaper than an individual string compensation profile, the more individual string compensation, the more the cost - and on top of that you can never second-guess the end user's string choice further on down the line. So many makers choose a basic, low cost canted or angled but straight profile bridge - a good compromise between cost and intonation. More up-market luthiers apply more stringent intonation criteria, and expect their more discerning customers to (a) pay more and ( maintain gauge and tension as specified. Equal temper is a compromise. Bridge cost versus intonation perfection is a compromise. I hear tell for some folks, LIFE is a compromise. But that ain't how I tune[-x Would you mind repeating that!! I have a good 3rd grade education, but?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 ajsc - if I just 'repeated' it, you would be no wiser than you are now. If you really want it explained in depth, PM me and I will PM you a breakdown. Trust me, it isn't hard to get a handle on if you take it a step at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesLawrence Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thermionik, Cost of manufacture sounds like a reasonable explanation except it's not borne out by facts. The difference in retail price between a compensated and fully compensated TUSQ saddle is $1. And my Seagull came with the fully compensated saddle yet the guitar is roughly 1/5 the price of a Gibson. But I quite agree that once you deviate from the factory setup and change string types its all a compromise. Cheers, Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Good point Les - but I can't think of another factor that makes much sense either. Maybe the non-compensated were designed and set up with strings and actions that were 'good to go'. I mean, pukkah classical nylon strung guitars almost never have compensation - the strings dont need it if, and only if, you use the same tension strings, same material, same weight as the designer set the saddle up for in the first instance. That is a matched set - you can make ALL the strings heavier or ALL the strings lighter, proportionally. But - if you put heavier trebles and lighter bass strings than the original design called for, the intonation is, how you say, not so good. And that gets a lot more sensitive with metal strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajsc Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thermionik I think I see what your saying, you seem to have a lot of knowledge on this subject. I've noticed that when my guitars are tuned, that when I add a capo to the mix, I have to re-tune. It is the same with all 3 guitars. Is this normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Rondack Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 TUSQ is another word for plastic - albeit a hard and dense' date=' ivory-like one.[/quote'] Don't miss this point... Bone always sounds better than TUSQ... on my guitars anyway. I have elephant ivory from Bob C. on one and that sounds even better... to me. The TUSQ just doesn't get it, in my opinion, complete, partial or no compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Thanks Eddie - and my point exactamundo. And ajsc - this usually happens with high frets, the higher the fret, the worse it gets. Your capo is squeezing harder, and over a wider area, than your fingers would, this stretches the string more than you would just normally fingering. I am betting it always goes sharp with the capo. No quick fix - lower frets would do it, but that would involve a complete re-set - first call is to try lowering the pressure exerted by the capo if possible, but then you are going to get buzz if you aren't careful, avoid this by putting the capo as near to the fret as feasible for playing. Less pressure combined with good positioning might just solve it - if not, refretting. Also curved necks can be a ***** - unless the capo matches the curve exactly, it squeezes some strings harder than others, and lighter strings can be problematic - a gauge change might (repeat might) sort it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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