animalfarm Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Has anyone ever owned one, played one, or have any input regarding reputation, quality, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 All these imports are coming out of only a few factories, they are all the same pile of crap with a different headstock, the bulk of the guitar is the same parts for most all of em.....expect nothing less. There's probably 20 brand names out there like this that are all being churned out of the same factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_96879415 High quality electronics and classic modern styling. Starting with bodies of genuine Mahogany, ( with Cream body binding ) both are topped with highly figured Maple or Ash which adds just the right bit of extra treble bite and sustain that makes this tried and true wood combination the "Holy Grail" of tone lovers everywhere! The solid Mahogany set bound neck features a rosewood fingerboard , GORGEOUS Vine Inlay's, 24 Frets, 24 3/4 scale, hand finished medium jumbo frets, beautiful Blue pearl crown inlays, our elegant blue pearl Abalone RWG headstock inlay and Drop dead Gorgeous Blue Pearl Headstock binding along with genuine GROVER tuners. I don't have a problem with the origin of anything, or anyone. I don't have a problem with a factory employing people, and building for different companys. We did that in the usa, you know. If the wood is good, the build quality up to snuff... it seems like competitive guitars to me. http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_96748814 I like the sort of PRS meets Adolph Rickenbacker styling. I do notice some rather rough grain in the fingerboard which doesn't fill me with confidence about the quality of the wood there. In these pics you can see the inlay around the headstock... http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_40647980 http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_42223155 pretty nice. in this we start to get a better idea of how they're made. do you count four pieces? http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_42948656 and http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_46260939 http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_50538844 board a little funky looking again.. http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_53568138 notice the way the light plays on that shiny spot on the left edge http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_59265234 pretty thick, I'd say. Well I'd take you through more. but I think that's enough to make a point. Marx will tell you these aren't Carvins.. another company that uses lots of different wood assembled in various ways. The finishes tell a tale. The inlays look very nice on some, and pretty typical on others. I've got better inlaid guitars here. I've had worse! They spent a lot of time and money on pretty.. but cut some corners doing that, too. This is not your Flying V Brimstone finish and workmanship.. and we can assume wood and most hardware/electronics. But it's not two grand either. so it's hard to say.. they may look great, but how they play, how they sound, how they hold up. all open to pretty serious question. Better to see one in person than condemn outright, but definately, better to question until then! TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibplayer Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Twang, you can now expect some lie to the effect that he's played 10 of every model in the range so that's how he knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 I was askin' and like, I done Bought this hyah gee-tar fur a gooooood price. ($300.00) Will provide commentary after it arrives in a few days... (dance, dance, jump, jump....) Yes, it IS a LES PAUL Copy... It's A "Raven West Guitars RM300DX Blue Purple Quilt".... (dance, dance, jump, jump...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I was askin' and like' date=' I done Bought this hyah gee-tar fur a gooooood price. ($300.00) Will provide commentary afterit arrives in a few days... (dance, dance, jump, jump....) Yes, it IS a LES PAUL Copy... It's A "Raven West Guitars RM300DX Blue Purple Quilt".... (dance, dance, jump, jump...). [/quote']I've seen that "thing" several times in the last 10 years with several different brand names on the headstock, garish and crappy don't begin to explain.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 In these pics you can see the inlay around the headstock... http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_40647980 http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/ravguitar_2017_42223155 TWANG INLAY??? Try for overlay. This is all the same crap that Dillion and Turser have been selling for years. Different headstock, same crappy bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Ah, should it garish, crappy, or appear to be manufactured by short people with thick glasses I shall report it as such. I will attempt to provide an unbiased opinion to either promote a decent product, OR to prevent others from purchasing a sub-standard axe. All git-players have personal preferences - I LOVE cool woodgrain gits, others prefer solid black paint. Different tastes are why all don't dress exactly the same, drive the same car, etc. I have owned 3 Gibson Les Pauls in my time, with a variety of others, EPI, DEAN, Alvarez, and I LOVE GIBSON! Now I still own a Gibson, AND an EPI Les Paul Studio, and I really ENJOY the EPI - not a damn thing wrong with it at all, plays sweet. Now, we shall see wassup with the Raven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Dillion's own version of garish: Tursers take on cheap "inlay" over done: All these are the same old crap, different parts and headstock, they've been floating around for years in various forms, all the same base body. THey are probably the same factory that puts out the fake Epis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floydpink7 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Everything on them seems shiny! :D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Everything on them seems shiny! :D/ Thanks to a nice thick coat of poly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostindesert Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Thanks to a nice thick coat of poly. Crap to me, these comments, look at the guitar at the home page, shiny.:D Just ask the Axis, he knows everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Thanks to a nice thick coat of poly. Two acquaintances of mine have both been marketing very strong alternatives to the usual suspect guitars. Joe Naylor is now having his Reverend Guitars made in Korea but originally they were made in East Pointe, Michigan : http://www.reverendguitars.com/ Joe's Michigan-made guitars were awesome for the money but economics have forced him to import from Korea...and no, there's no glitz and chintz on them which is just pretentious crap..and his Michigan-made guitars are now getting premium prices used because they've become very desirable... Sean Bumstead imports the bodies from Germany and installs OEM hardware and pick ups...he can't say it but I'll give you a clue...German company that starts with SCH and they're famous for their machine heads.. and where can you get a nitro-cellulose finish for under a grand...and those are list prices at his web site.. http://bumsteadguitars.com/ Joe and Sean are both good guys. About ten years ago I got an offer from a Korean guitar maker to buy guitars in lots of 100 for $11.5K delivered to San Francisco (supposed ly with list prices up to $1K lol).. from the catalog they look suspiciously like the Tursers and other glitzy Asian junk..and I could have even created my own brand name and logo and had a choice of three or four headstocks...I passed.. I don't what it is about people and this notion that if it looks glitzy there's substance...looks like cheap carnival crap to me... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 step right up step right up see the lady with the tatoos dance the hoochie koo.. see the man with two heads and jo jo the dogfaced boy.. step right up step right up http://www.elderly.com/images/new_instruments/10N/D45_front-detail-2.jpg you pays your quarter you takes your chances step right up here sir and see the bearded lady and the genuine siamese twins.. step right up http://limelitemusic.com/images/categories/scan0002.jpg that's right folks, from time immemorial the act has been alive. the fay-rohs of egypt, the a-rab prince and the indian goo-roo have all graced the stage.. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/143525835_97c7bc228a.jpg?v=0 http://www.dargate.com/251_auction/251_images/2590.jpg yessiree it don't matter where you're from.. toe-lee-do spain or kalamazoo.. http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/3/5/418235.jpg it's a free country and someday a free world..and you chooses what you chooses and let no man say you can't! you pays your quarter and you takes your prize! http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM02/Content/Taylor/PR/Liberty-Guitar-Inlay.jpg step right up, step right up see the tatooed lady dance the hoochy koo! TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 step right up step right upsee the lady with the tatoos dance the hoochie koo.. see the man with two heads and jo jo the dogfaced boy.. step right up step right up http://www.elderly.com/images/new_instruments/10N/D45_front-detail-2.jpg you pays your quarter you takes your chances step right up here sir and see the bearded lady and the genuine siamese twins.. step right up http://limelitemusic.com/images/categories/scan0002.jpg that's right folks' date=' from time immemorial the act has been alive. the fay-rohs of egypt, the a-rab prince and the indian goo-roo have all graced the stage.. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/46/143525835_97c7bc228a.jpg?v=0 http://www.dargate.com/251_auction/251_images/2590.jpg yessiree it don't matter where you're from.. toe-lee-do spain or kalamazoo.. http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/3/5/418235.jpg it's a free country and someday a free world..and you chooses what you chooses and let no man say you can't! you pays your quarter and you takes your prize! http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM02/Content/Taylor/PR/Liberty-Guitar-Inlay.jpg step right up, step right up see the tatooed lady dance the hoochy koo! TWANG [/quote']It has become painfully obvious you are dumber than a box of rocks. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Two acquaintances of mine have both been marketing very strong alternatives to the usual suspect guitars. Joe Naylor is now having his Reverend Guitars made in Korea but originally they were made in East Pointe' date=' Michigan : http://www.reverendguitars.com/ Joe's Michigan-made guitars were awesome for the money but economics have forced him to import from Korea...and no, there's no glitz and chintz on them which is just pretentious crap..and his Michigan-made guitars are now getting premium prices used because they've become very desirable... Sean Bumstead imports the bodies from Germany and installs OEM hardware and pick ups...he can't say it but I'll give you a clue...German company that starts with SCH and they're famous for their machine heads.. and where can you get a nitro-cellulose finish for under a grand...and those are list prices at his web site.. http://bumsteadguitars.com/ Joe and Sean are both good guys. About ten years ago I got an offer from a Korean guitar maker to buy guitars in lots of 100 for $11.5K delivered to San Francisco (supposed ly with list prices up to $1K lol).. from the catalog they look suspiciously like the Tursers and other glitzy Asian junk..and I could have even created my own brand name and logo and had a choice of three or four headstocks...I passed.. I don't what it is about people and this notion that if it looks glitzy there's substance...looks like cheap carnival crap to me... Mr.Nelson[/quote']I've played a few of the early Rev's and they were pretty nice. Especially the P90 ones. It's pretty obvious all these other crappy imports are all the same trash with a bit different makeup slapped on em. The folks that are sucked into this crap are gettting what they deserve. Funny thing is folks here complain about the fake Epi's.....they are in all likelihood the same guitars from the same factory as all this other crap. About 10 years ago I got to take a walk through a storage warehouse, it had thousands of import guitars, all basically the same bodies with many different names on the headstock, archtops, LP's, SG, you name it. After grabbing a few dozen at random it became obvious how crappy all this stuff is. Looks fine in pics and on a guitar stand, but that's it. Buy on suckers, it's just like the crap in the Sears catalog 30 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Twang' date=' you can now expect some lie to the effect that he's played 10 of every model in the range so that's how he knows.[/quote']I can expect you to continue to talk as a fool.:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibplayer Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Sean Bumstead imports the bodies from Germany and installs OEM hardware and pick ups...he can't say it but I'll give you a clue...German company that starts with SCH and they're famous for their machine heads.. and where can you get a nitro-cellulose finish for under a grand...and those are list prices at his web site.. I had the opportunity to buy one of the Bum***** SG ‘knock offs’. The stock home brand pickups were lifeless and the Kluson copy tuners were hopeless. These guitars are aimed at the sucker who thinks that a nitro finish and a USA “made” stamp is the holy grail of guitar quality/value. They can’t be assembled in the US and have a nitro finish for that price without cutting corners somewhere else. The fact is, an Epi Elitist blows these guitars out of the water. The Elitists were so good that Gibson had to stop making them because they were eating in to their Gibson USA guitar sales. Go get yourself a Bum*****. They live up to the name on the headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrjones200x Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 MarxBros i get the impression you dont like mr twang? Each to there own opinion i say no need to call him thick really and be childish towards him. Im probably younger than you and you dont find me ripping people for expressing there opinions even when i dont agree. Not on really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 LOL!! This gets really amusing at times. Twang, I like your carnival metaphor. Marx, can you spell compromise? I know you think that if you continue to degrade anything but a Gibson that we will see the light, sell all our Epis, and start paying $2300 for all our new guitars. It's not gonna happen in your lifetime ... I shined up the Gibby studio last night and I'm taking it to church this morning. I've been rotating lately and taking a different guitar each week. This week is the Gibby's turn. Yes, it plays well and I enjoy playing it, but would I pay $1400 for it today? No. I'd buy another Epiphone. Would I like to have a room full of Gibsons? Yes, but buying Epis are allowing me to pay the house off in half the time so that I can retire. They make too much sense to stop owning them. Still, the thread is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 I see we are approaching the thought - "At what point does a guitar cross over from being a working guitar and become more of a "piece of art"? Ideally, BOTH would apply to the same guitar, but not always. Is it a sin to have an "oooh, Ahhhh, wowww..." guitar? Depends on your personal taste. I have the solid-playing working guitar (30 yrs old and still in fine condit.), but if I see a guitar that is visually stunning I also approve. Bottom line, though - The stunning guitar HAS TO BE PLAYABLE. Speaking of GARISH, may I present the following: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ef_in_fla Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I've wanted one of these for a while. I wish Epi made one so I didn't have to "consider" a Turser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 As usual.. my point was ignored.. while I was attacked. so let me restate for those not bright enough.. and I will not name anyone.. just point at that person and whistle.. fweet! to understand. Remarks were made about inlay and the general fancification of guitars which would clearly lead one to believe that any guitar with the fancys was tasteless, crass, etc. In my little carnival post I merely invited persons to examine the history of the guitar, and it's predecessors and cousins. such as the Lute, though one may look in ANY direction, in ANY culture, and find that fine work of beauty has been applied to every instrument that had room. Great guitar companys have gone far out of their way to FOLLOW that tradition, and for good reason. Lesser companys have gone in that direction, and for good reason. Individuals, and there several examples currently in threads in this forum, (and you have seen this on hot rods, fishing boats, and motorcycles almost since they were invented) have always thought to personalize or otherwise set thier instruments apart from others. Perhaps particularly when those instruments are of common manufacture. This is mine. So say all these people. Company, Corporation, Luthier and Player. This is mine. That statement is not.. this is mine, subject to your opinion, attitude or taste. Nay, there is not one iota of butt kissing going on in this matter. They are not fawning to popular opinion. They are not requesting permission from mommy or daddy. And they don't need it. When you buy a new pickguard, or change your knobs, you are my friend, making a personal decision. When you slap on your F word in electrical tape, or put on your pinup decal, or choosing a guitar that is less commonly seen and unusually decorated, you are making a personal decision. It is not MY intent to tell you that anything you choose in that regard is 'wrong', or worse, as has been said. Only if it affects the performance, or stability of your guitar will I make any comment, and then it is solely for the purpose of informing you of possible problem. We may, of course, express our opinions, freely. But a person who is absolute, who believes that they are not only right, but have the right to insult you personally over such matters has gone too far. They have negated any positive influence they may have by being unreasonable, bossy, petty, small, lacking objectivity, and spitting on the very idea that has been part and parcel of human existence from day one. I'm SURE that some of the cave paintings were socially acceptable, had great meaning to the people who did them, and to the culture they were part of. I'm also sure, as our fathers and grandfathers so proudly informed the world, that KILROY WAS HERE. Whether or not you choose the dot or the fancy Sheraton is beside the point in these terms. You have your own tastes. You have your own reasons. Whether or not you like the fancy stuff is totally up to you. It is not up to your neighbor. Or some guy with a computer who's probably already chased away all his friends because they put a batman sticker on their locker in 7th grade. What is the reason for a veneer? What is the reason for chrome? Both have different issues. Chrome, as I may note, the chinese invented hundreds of years before western civilisation, lasts longer and doesn't rust. It also looks way blingy, dude! Veneer only has looks to support it. Yet we choose that flame top. That Quilt. Spalted wood is wood that has had certain conditions and even diseases and worms about it long enough to make it radically different in look. And we pay EXTRA for spalted wood. Rarity, seems to me, a great thing in the mind of INDIVIDUALS. We, as human beings, have always inherently valued the idea of individuality. It wasn't until the formation of a place called THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA this value was put into actual practice across the board. As a result, we got the Gibson, the Rickenbacker, the Fender, the Martin, the Taylor, and yes, The Epiphone. And as a result, we get the Turser and the Raven and the Saga and more and more and more. As a result we have guitars for the lowest income, and the highest. Stradivarius seems to have made his violins with only tone in mind. The beauty of his work seems to be that each part of the instrument was dedicated soley to function. To carry that idea over to a solid body guitar, covered in metal and plastic parts, made my cnc machines, and then dedicate all quality to it, is NUTS. No decal ever ruined anybodys tone. No veneer ever made anybodys guitar sound better.. but looking better probably made the owner happy. To devalue that, is to devalue humanity. I'm not going there. Illogical criticism, lacking any objectivity, and relying solely on bluster, ego, and outright nastiness, has layers. Degrees. Some of us, I'd say most of us, are perfectly happy to be MEN about it. To say to somone who's chosen an aesthetic direction not to our particular liking.. good job.. looks sharp.. congratulations.. and others prefer to hold our noses and then, ironically, verbally fart until even a virtual room stinks to high heaven. Most of us are rather conservative. This is evolution at work, my friends. It's part and parcel the same reason we stand back at least until we know what kind of snake that is. It's the same reason we peer carefully over the side of the cliff. It's as inherent in our make up as the various biological imperitives, the lizard brain at work, within each and every one of us. But, we're human beings. We ought to be able to clearly see that there's a heck of a lot of difference between sticking your head out of the foxhole sans helmet. and putting some abalone on your headstock. Some people, are so full of fear, they can't make that distinction. They truly believe, directed by their Lizard King, that any deviance from the herd, the safe, the secure, is dangerous and to be shunned at any cost. Others simply recognize the real danger, and then face it, meanwhile painting shark teeth on the nose of their fighter plane. So I say, do as you will. But when I see someone personalising their guitar, or choosing a guitar more out of the ordinary, I see that fighter pilot. I see KILROY. I see every human being who's said, 'you know.. I can handle life, in fact, I even can handle it with joy, and humor, and compassion, no matter it's similarity to a war', even knowing that as Sonny Boy once intoned, 'there aint but one way out', in a pretty darned noble light. He may be 16, he may not even be a he, he may be 63. He comes from everywhere, and he's been there all along. And I appreciate that without that spirit, we wouldn't know what was on the other side of that hill, or around that bend. In art or in war, or in any other aspect of life there is another aspect of the Lizard King.. he moves forward, he takes chances, he looks at his friends and they matter, he looks at his history and he's not ashamed, he looks at life and sees it in the bright light of celebration. I'm grateful to him. I'm glad to meet him. And while I know that putting something fancy on your guitar hardly compares to taming the horse instead of eating it, I also believe it's the same spirit that motivates the act. Something deep in the human psyche that dares to think another thought. I'm all for it.. TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiberna Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Bottom line' date=' though - The stunning guitar HAS TO BE PLAYABLE.[/quote (Im not bragging but) The silvertone apocalypse "Cracked Mirror"s are stunning and play like a dream. they are also surprisingly light too. [img']http://www.alfred-christensen.dk/images/st_v_apocalypse_pro_cracked_mirror_large.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 To Twang: A well-presented rebuttal. I insert the following picture in your honor! Hiberna: This is a for real, MIRROR? I would love to see more pix... This is playable, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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