majikalex32 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 When its a John Lennon 65 Casino!! Gday from Australia... I own a John Lennon Epiphone 65 Casino E230TD. I have owned this guitar since 1999 and it is the most beautiful instrument to play and look at, I am very very proud to own my casino. The serial number is 208 so i was lucky enough to get one of the early ones. When i bought the guitar it cost me $4000 Australian Dollars, which was abit much at the time, but I just wanted this guitar so much. i asked the guy at the shop at the time, and he said 'mate, i doubt we can get any more, its a limited edition. 'Limited Edition'. Lets ponder that for a moment , shall we? Initially, when Epiphone released this guitar, it was sold as a limited. The certificate i got with the guitar starts of 'This is to certify that this Limited Edition John Lennon Casino...' The bottom left hand side of the certificate states number 208 /1965. The advert i saw in a magazine when i initially bought this guitar says 'A total of 1,965 of these individually hand-numbered instruments will be produced' I still have the advert! you can still buy this promo on ebay, and find the exact same sales pitch on numerous websites online. you used to be able to find it on the epiphone site as well in the 'Historial Collection', but recently they have changed it to 'An exact replica of John Lennons '65 Casino', with no mention of 'Limited Edition' with a BUY IT NOW!!!! i know that Epiphone also sold seconds of these guitars with a big R stamped into the back of the headstock. Is anyone else annoyed as hell, like i am, that my LIMITED EDITION casino has now been mass produced and is available right now to buy on musicians friend? Whats going on Epiphone. I think you owe myself and all the other LIMITED EDITION Casino owners like me an explaination? How dare you do something like this? i really really feel like using numerous swear words.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMcClane5000 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I can understand why you feel angry but look at it from this point... You own a very unique guitar which looks and plays exactly like the original! I have a Casino too, a Korean one, which porbably a few thousand other people have too but I don't care 'cause it's my baby... It's the same with the John Lennon EJ-160E ""Limited Edition"" which has been running for a very very long time... Your instrument is superior to a normal Epiphone so be proud about it. I don't think there's sooooo many people who have the cash to buy such a great looking guitar! :-({|= Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 firstly thanks for your reply JohnMcClane5000 i just want you to know i am a blue collar worker. i do not have alot of cash, like most musos and people for that matter. i layby this guitar and it took me over a year to pay for it. i am happy with my guitar, i love it and would never sell it, i am however peeved at epiphone and their parent company gibson for such blatent misrepresentation. it wouldnt have taken much to label this new guitar a 65 casino, instread of using johns name as a selling point. i know his foundation used to get part proceeds of the sale of the guitar for its scholarship programs, im fine with that. i think my next option is to email yoko and ask her why this has happened. i am sure johns estate has enough money. isnt their laws in the states against this sorta dodgy dealings? if not there should be... if i had known epiphone were going to do this i would have bought an original 65 casino at the time, as i had the chance, and the original was cheaper from memory. but i wanted the john lennon LIMITED EDITION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDeuce Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I too am put off by this practice. I bought my JL EJ160E thinking I`d have a true LE, but after 10 years in production they have squashed that dream. I suppose their objective is to sell as many as possible thus proving "LE" is not clearly defined and is merely marketing hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 thanks for your reply eGuitarNut perhaps if enough people voice their disapproval epiphone might respond. does this happen only with the lennon affiliated guitars, or are there other non lennon examples? unfortunately this is negetively affecting the value of our guitars, and their 'uniqueness' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theDeuce Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 The value of our guitars is what it is, they will never be anything more than another mass produced guitar. The only thing Epi could possibly be concerned about is damaging their credibility with their marketing hype in the future. But I doubt they are much concerned about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluezOldy Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 eGuitarNut is right: limited edition means nothing on an Epi and certainly won't up the value. I have a Dot with on the rear of the headstock and it's nothing more than a marketing ploy as is any guitar sold with a 'famous' name on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 ive emailed, posted in these forums, even rang gibson australia and gibson usa direct. still no response. gutless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 I can understand why you feel angry but look at it from this point... You own a very unique guitar which looks and plays exactly like the original! I have a Casino too' date=' a Korean one, which porbably a few thousand other people have too but I don't care 'cause it's my baby...It's the same with the John Lennon EJ-160E ""Limited Edition"" which has been running for a very very long time... Your instrument is superior to a normal Epiphone so be proud about it. I don't think there's sooooo many people who have the cash to buy such a great looking guitar! :-({|= Nick[/quote'] so why do i get the feeling you work for epiphone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acewarslave Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 majikalex32..last year i bought a epi ace frehley it was a fake..chinese...i spoke to the major importer of gibson in australia and asked when production was stoped on ace frehley eppis the bloke i spoke to was err,not very nice or very helpfull .i wasnt very happy he said to me if u want to complain feel free my supervisor is listening on our conversation...lucky me ive since bought a legit ace frehley eppi..still dont know about production stop on them..i have a ltd gold sparkle eppi nice guitar,not much u can do about the ltd thing..good luck with dealing with gibson australia btw.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 after ringing the states three times i got this reply yesterday Hello, Thanks for your patience while I looked into this for you. I’ve received confirmation about the details for this model: The John Lennon historic Casinos are limited in production to 1,965 instruments each- 1,965 Revolution Casinos: http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=19&CollectionID=17 1,965 Lennon 1965 Casinos: http://www.epiphone.com/default.asp?ProductID=18&CollectionID=17 This limited production has never changed. We have been producing these models very slowly ever since their introduction, so the fact that they are still available for purchase as new instruments is attributed to the fact that we have not yet completed production on the limited run, and is not an indicator that we have exceeded the production limit set and advertised for these models. Again, to be clear- these models are still limited in production to 1,965 instruments, and we have no intention of re-releasing these models once the production limit has been met. Thank you for the inquiry, and I hope this helps clear up the confusion! Best regards, Benton Cummings Gibson Customer Service thankyou for clearing that up for me Brenton. i still am curious as to why epi lifted the 'Limited'Edition' tag from their website though... perhaps becauuse as previously mentioned it has taken 10 years to sell 4000 of these guitars. who knows. and as for Gibson Australia... right with you ace. the guy i spoke to was an arrogant pig. glad you ended up getting a real epi ace frehley and im sorry to hear u got a fake. perhaps you can tell us all exactly how you bought the fake so more of us dont get caught out spending our hard earned cash on chinese copies. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluezOldy Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The Australian importer/distributor for Gibson/Epiphone would have to be one of the rudest, most arrogant and unhelpful companies I've ever dealt with. And quite a few retailers have the same opinion of them. That and the over-the-top recent prices means no more of my dollars will be spent on Epis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strothotte Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Hi, I also just found out what I think is an unbelievable way of doing business. First of all, when I purchased my JL 1965 Casino LE in the late 90s Epiphone stated "a combined total of 1965 will be produced", not 1965 of each, the 1965 and the Revolution. So this info provided by Epiphone already is a lie. Second, nobody can tell me that they were not able to sell 1965 pieces of a guitar with a heritage like this within 10 years. And you still get them at every corner. If you look at the (white) serial number sticker on some of the offerings on Ebay, you see "#xxx of 1965" on the old ones, on the new ones you just see a serial number. But the sticker itself is identical even to the JL logo. It's truely unbelievable. Looking at Rickenbacker, they did a few runs of limited editions with much less famous artists than JL (e.g. 1000 pieces for the McGuinn), and they sold out within months. Even the John Lennon Limited Ediions (total of 2000 on 3 different models) sold out in no time, although they were not even reproductions of the guitars he used. So to me, this is a clear act of fraud that is extremely annoying. Not that I want to sell mine, but you lose the feeling to have a special guitar since you actually don't. I was surprised in the first place to see a company to decide to limit the production on a model that could be sold in real quantities. We are talking about a Beatle guitar here, right?. It doesn't at all make sense from a business point of view, and I think they soon found out and corrected their decision. This is what happened at Rickenbacker, too. After 250 pieces of the Pete Townsend and 1000 of the Tom Petty, these guitars just continued as regular production models with all their special features except the signature pickguard. I don't own any of these, but as a Rickenbacker afficionado, I was shocked about that approach. Enough said, I think I made my point clear. My first and last Epiphone. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 this whole business sucks. i will not be buying a new guitar ever again. period. especially from epiphone or gibson. ESPECIALLY from Epiphone. when i bought my JL 65 i bought it in good faith. Cheers Epiphone. Like i said previously, i am sure their are laws in the USA against this kind of blatently false advertising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin134 Posted February 15, 2009 Share Posted February 15, 2009 THe ones with the serial number of xxxx of 1965 are the ones that will be worth something down the road. the others you mentioned while they may be worth more then a regular casino, should not be as much as yours. pretty crappy if epiphone/gibson is not being legit about it really being limited, no way of really knowing I think.. The limited edition sticker also seems to be used for guitar of the month type releases or special color runs done for say one retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 hi ive posted on this forum previously. i own a lennon epi 1965 casino. my casino is labelled 'limited edition' and is number 208 of supposidly 1965 in total produced. why is this guitar still being produced? i noticed epiphone have dropped the 'limited edition' on the website now. has anyone else noticed this. is anyone else as annoyed as me? how can epi /gibson do this? i have contacted epiphone direct via email. they of course have not replied. bad business practice. last time i buy a new epi or gibson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 So you're upset about losing the "exclusivity' of a guitar. Never mind the fact that it's an incredible instrument. If that's all you're worried about, then you should just quit dude. Seriously, did you buy it to look at or play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 oh its a great guitar and yes im dark about losing some of the exclusiveness as you put it. after all thats apparently what i paid extra for. im sure there are laws protecting consumers from stuff like this. not that i want a refund i love my casino. i just think its wrong and misleading what epiphone /gibson have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 ive played for 20 odd years to answer your Q. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony_JB Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 So, you paid extra cash for it to say "John Lennon - Limited Edition"? Hmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majikalex32 Posted June 12, 2010 Author Share Posted June 12, 2010 no. i paid extra cash because it was advertised as 'limited edition' and i wanted to make sure i got one. as 'limited edition' implies limited numbers available for a limited time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Brenton did give a clear answer on this about 4 months ago concerning your Casino????? So why is there a need for you to start a new thread on this same subject matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 All I'm saying is that if you bought it to be collectible, you bought it for the wrong reason. I have a major gripe against 'collectors' because they drive the price up, and take the high-end and vintage instruments out of the hands of players. You get no sympathy from me about losing a status symbol. AWWW.... Is baby upset about his Casino? Cry me a river man. Besides. It's still marked XXX of 1965, therefore identifying it as a first run. It's lost NONE of it's exclusivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 The only real "advantage" of a "Lennon" USA Casino, is that it's (edit) ASSEMBLED (edit) IN the USA, with better parts, electronics, etc. And, to 1965 specs, or as close as they can get, with the materials available. It's only "valuable" to those who assign that kind of thing, and I certainly wouldn't count on it, as any future "nest egg." But, if you did buy it, for it's "investment potential," then by all means, put it in the bank vault, so it will be "NOS" in 50 years, when wooden guitars are a thing of the past, and those that are still alive, will be playing "Gertchblods and Zackdungers," (SP) instead. ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted June 13, 2010 Share Posted June 13, 2010 The only real "advantage" of a "Lennon" USA Casino' date=' is that it's made IN the USA, with better parts, electronics, etc. And, to 1965 specs, or as close as they can get, with the materials available. CB[/quote'] They are not made in the USA Charlie, only assembled there! The guitar arrives minus fixtures & fittings, but otherwise finished (Including Nitro lacquer), From the Terada factory in Japan. The pickups & hardware are added in the USA, and the guitar is given final setup. Which is why the little label on the back of the headstock carefully says, "Assembled in the USA", and not the all important, "Made in the USA" On a more positive note, these Lennon reissue Casino`s, are probably the best yet made, with a very high build quality, and a consistancy across the run, which is higher than the Kalamazoo originals. As you rightly say, they are as close to the 65 specs as conceivably possible, but some concessions have had to be made. For example the 60`s version utilised Brazillian Rosewood for the fretboard, and the Lennon`s have had to use East Indian Rosewood. The headstock Epiphone inlay was MOP on the originals, which faded to a Goldish colour under the Nitro lacquer, whereas the Lennon`s have a pearloid inlay, with a slightly different font. The other differences I can see, are firstly, the scratchplate (Pickguard) does not have enough bevel around the edge. Secondly the truss rod cover "E" is of a bolder type face than the originals. Thirdly the use of unmarked Gotoh tuners on the Lennon 65 instead of original Klusons, (Tonerite-Klusons are the current alternative). I`m also of the opinion that the "Revolution" Casino, should carry Kluson type tuners, as John didn`t change to Gold Grovers until 1970, post Beatles! And finally the serial number on the back of the h/stock, is in the wrong place (Too low down). All minor points agreed, but nonetheless not 65 specs. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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