JefferySmith Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 It is cheap and Chinese. Crap may be too strong, but they sure don't have anything that resembles quality control in that country. Reminds me of the camera production in the USSR during the cold war. Although the cameras and lenses were supposed to be interchangeable, you had to try a few specimens to get a correct fit. It all comes down to QC. Oh Epiphone...hire a hardnosed QC person and send him over there soon. From all of the melamine scandals, we all know that they do whatever and hope not to be discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 It's pretty surprising. But I'd bet an anomaly.My lp studio is much better in the cavitys and in the paint..and the frets. and yeah' date=' I'd call MF anyway. I'd tell them I was gone and just really be nice but firm about it and tell them they're such good folks, and this guitar was a big deal to you.. and I bet they'll come up with something. If the first phone call doesn't do it, email them at the site, too. I really feel sure they'll try to make it right with you. Have the pics ready or email them in advance. TWANG[/quote'] Sure it is...and you're an anomaly...to have lived this long with no perceivable brain...when are you going to get a clue? Just because Twing owns something does not give it any inherent or intrinsic quality...to me if Twing owns it it's probably available CHEAP...you are correct though...he needs to call Musician's Fornicator and let them know that piece of crap is coming back and they either send one that doesn't look like your handiwork work or return his money... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Musician's Fornicator Mr.Nelson I like that, it has a nice ring to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLesPaul2006 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Nice try but he bought it through Musician's Friend...Gibson's very own online dealer...sucks don't it? Mr.Nelson Damn right it sucks. We deserve better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Didn't realize that MF is part of Gibson? Who says its not a fake? That sure looks like the crap fakes that China is pumping out. I really do not think that something that bad would make it out of the Epiphone factory without a 2nd stamped on it. I removed the Selector placard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Damn right it sucks. We deserve better. For years that's what I've been saying...not that Epiphone sucks but that Gibson takes advantage of people with their crap quality on both of their guitars lines while the prices continue into the sky...yes, that name on the headstock does mean something whether it's Epiphone or Gibson...and it isn't unreasonable for a consumer to not be treated like a clueless rube just because there is a name on that headstock...but it requires consumer awareness and objectivity...look how clean that '05 looks and look how horrible the new one looks...and that new one costs more than that '05 did but where did the quality go?...into Jim Rosenberg's corporate bonus no doubt... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 Mr. Nelson those other pictures are of my Agile AL3000 which cost me a hell of a lot cheaper than the Custom. I will eventually post my Standard when I get home. I thought I had them but I can't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I removed the Selector placard It's obviously not a fake...and it really doesn't look that bad until you look under the hood...but you spent good money for that guitar and that's near the top of the line not their budget stuff so you do deserve more...it's just the process of cost-cutting that's in everything these days..good luck with MF Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarxBros Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I'd throw that guitar through a plate glass window, what a POS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 im not even sure what to say about that... i can one thing i think i can see another Agile in my guitar room soon if epip dont get its $hit together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcelo1281734115 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 That guitar looks like it was used at one time and had to be repainted to be sold as "new". I don't think that that is the original paint on that guitar, you can see the masking tape edges. Are they refurbishing customer returned product at MF and selling it to unsupecting customers? I am not defending China here, but from the work they did inside the cavity, maybe I should be blaming them for this guitar. But this guitar looks like it was re-coated sometime after it left the factory, but you can never be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 i would call MF fist thing in the am. all they can say is no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 If I wasn't going to change the PUPs I wouldn't have known for a while. The paint really didn't bother me at all, it's a nice sounding and feels great. I just hate packing it up and paying to ship it back.. You are correct you pay for something you expect it perfect and not like somebody used it as a training session. I wish I could call in first thing in the morning I have to work and I work pretty late. I will fire off an e-mail with pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 That guitar looks like it was used at one time and had to be repainted to be sold as "new". I don't think that that is the original paint on that guitar' date=' you can see the masking tape edges. Are they refurbishing customer returned product at MF and selling it to unsupecting customers? I am not defending China here, but from the work they did inside the cavity, maybe I should be blaming them for this guitar. But this guitar looks like it was re-coated sometime after it left the factory, but you can never be sure.[/quote'] I was under the impression that the factory in China was Epiphone's factory (rather than outsourcing such as they did with Samick, etc.). So they (Epiphone) is really responsible for the lapses in QC. The ugly covered parts might be acceptable, but the awful paint job isn't. Some years ago, BMW (I think) repainted a car after it was dented in the factory. The owner discovered the coverup paint job and sued BMW and won a ton of punitive damages (in the millions as I recall). But if what Nelson has said (that their "quality" byline is now gone), they might not be as liable as BMW if something had been repainted. The old "you get what you pay for" adage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Mr. Nelson those other pictures are of my Agile AL3000 which cost me a hell of a lot cheaper than the Custom. I will eventually post my Standard when I get home. I thought I had them but I can't find them. That's even worse...Now...I'm not promoting Agiles (cuz I've already got in trouble for that before..hee hee) but it seems to me that if a company (Rondo Music) can contract with an Asian factory to bring a guitar of that quality to the marketplace at that price point then why can't Epiphone with its superior buying power?... unless of course consumers are paying for that name and Gibson knows they can get away with scrimping on actual quality it because they know that the name sells itself...whether it's Gibson or Epiphone.. Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 For years that's what I've been saying...not that Epiphone sucks but that Gibson takes advantage of people with their crap quality on both of their guitars lines while the prices continue into the sky...yes' date=' that name on the headstock does mean something whether it's Epiphone or Gibson...and it isn't unreasonable for a consumer to not be treated like a clueless rube just because there is a name on that headstock...but it requires consumer awareness and objectivity...look how clean that '05 looks and look how horrible the new one looks...and that new one costs more than that '05 did but where did the quality go?...into Jim Rosenberg's corporate bonus no doubt... Mr.Nelson[/quote'] I agree... And, it's not just Gibson, Epiphone, or even Guitars! There's way too much of this kind of non-sense going on, across the board! Without getting into too much of a "rant," let's just say... I feel like Howard Beale in "Network," when I want to scream "I'm as Mad as Hell, and I'm not going to take this, anymore," WAY too often, these days. I AM "old and Cranky," there's no doubt, but... I dare say, there are a LOT of us, of all ages, who feel likewise, to varying degrees? And...If we don't say/do anything, one can gaurantee nothing will happen/change. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 That's even worse...Now...I'm not promoting Agiles (cuz I've already got in trouble for that before..hee hee) but it seems to me that if a company (Rondo Music) can contract with an Asian factory to bring a guitar of that quality to the marketplace at that price point then why can't Epiphone with its superior buying power?... unless of course consumers are paying for that name and Gibson knows they can get away with scrimping on actual quality it because they know that the name sells itself...whether it's Gibson or Epiphone.. Mr.Nelson i can not agree with you more i picked up an AL2k on craigslist for $100 and put a new bridge pick up in it and that is a very nice guitar now its very much as nice as my Epi custom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinster Posted February 2, 2009 Author Share Posted February 2, 2009 This one incident won't deter me from getting another Epiphone.. However if I see more and more of these issue I won't. I'm going ask for a standard plus amber and they refund me the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 This one incident won't deter me from getting another Epiphone.. However if I see more and more of these issue I won't. for what you paid for it ill be damned if i ever get one that looks like that it will be the last one i get... take that to the bank.. and if more of us had the same mind set as i do.. Epi/Gibson i hope would want to do something about it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I love all the Epi's I have...they're all well made, well finished, and great players. SO, it's not a matter of IF they can do it...it's just if they WILL, continue to improve quality and QC! This incident is discouraging...but it might BE, just a fluke?! I hope so...but even with Gibson, there's been more than a few I've seen, that were disturbing in the lack of QC, that had to be present, to allow them out of the factory at all. But, mass produced guitars (products in general) have those problems, now and then...it's part of the business. The thing is, WE (consumers) don't have to just accept those items. It's not only our right to return them, it's our obligation, really...IMHO. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrirlupus Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 That was sloppy work. Methinks inspector six is having sex with painter no. 42. TWANG YAY CHINESE SWEAT SHOP LOVE!!! COMMUNISM IS SO AWESOME!!! CHEAP LABOR FOR THE WIN!!! what next' date=' americans refuse teaching jobs because of low pay and illegal aliens take them, driving teacher's salaries down and lowering the standard of education further [irreparably, because the new wages are too low for americans'] than it has been, meaning that those jobs that americans will take are that much further out of reach for the average person, increasing unemployment because everyone is concerned with getting a high paying job and won't accept anything below what they think they deserve? a lift on the embargo with cuba? legalized marijuana? re-legalized late abortions? chaos on bourbon street??... oh wait just a minute.... never mind that last one... Ok, so your guitar isn't going to make the world go down in flames (unless you play it through a high watt marshall full stack on 11) but maybe you should try getting a replacement? worth a shot anyway, that looks like it should be B stock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 I agree... And' date=' it's not just Gibson, Epiphone, or even Guitars! There's way too much of this kind of non-sense going on, across the board! Without getting into too much of a "rant," let's just say... I feel like Howard Beale in "Network," when I want to scream "I'm as Mad as Hell, and I'm not going to take this, anymore," WAY too often, these days. I AM "old and Cranky," there's no doubt, but... I dare say, there are a LOT of us, of all ages, who feel likewise, to varying degrees? And...If we don't say/do anything, one can gaurantee nothing will happen/change. CB[/quote'] but...didn't Howard blow his brains out???? lol yeah, I know all about old and cranky..I think it just torques me off to see every corporation take advantage of the consumer as if they have no choice...which they really don't...but it really hurts if you have some who for self-validating reasons refuse to be objective..and the brand name game really gets my tail feathers in a ruffle...gosh darn...this not being able to use profanity is making me almost quaint and folksy...people need to be objective and informed consumers and not fall prey to brand name hype of any kind or be a victim of their own egos by not being objective... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 but...didn't Howard blow his brains out???? lol yeah' date=' I know all about old and cranky..I think it just torques me off to see every corporation take advantage of the consumer as if they have no choice...which they really don't...but it really hurts if you have some who for self-validating reasons refuse to be objective..and the brand name game really gets my tail feathers in a ruffle...gosh darn...this not being able to use profanity is making me almost quaint and folksy...people need to be objective and informed consumers and not fall prey to brand name hype of any kind or be a victim of their own egos by not being objective... Mr.Nelson[/quote'] LOL...yeah, he did...and, given what was done to him, who could blame him?! Loved that movie! And, in regards to Corporate vs consumer...another old saying (most often attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt)... "No one can take advantage of YOU, without YOUR permission!" Man, that's never been truer, than now... seems to me, anyway. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 YAY CHINESE SWEAT SHOP LOVE!!! COMMUNISM IS SO AWESOME!!! CHEAP LABOR FOR THE WIN!!! what next' date=' americans refuse teaching jobs because of low pay and illegal aliens take them, driving teacher's salaries down and lowering the standard of education further [irreparably, because the new wages are too low for americans'] than it has been, meaning that those jobs that americans will take are that much further out of reach for the average person, increasing unemployment because everyone is concerned with getting a high paying job and won't accept anything below what they think they deserve? a lift on the embargo with cuba? legalized marijuana? re-legalized late abortions? chaos on bourbon street??... oh wait just a minute.... never mind that last one... Ok, so your guitar isn't going to make the world go down in flames (unless you play it through a high watt marshall full stack on 11) but maybe you should try getting a replacement? worth a shot anyway, that looks like it should be B stock... Did you have a point? ....I would say if you're going to be in bed with China then a Cuban embargo is ridiculous...I won't go into this here (OK maybe I will) but I happen to admire Fidel Castro for some things and despise him for other things...and if in 1952 we would have helped him rid his country of vermin like Fulgencio Batista he wouldn't have turned to the Soviets for help and Cuba would have been a social democracy..but Fidel did it on his own (with a little help from his Soviet friends) and kicked out the greedy U.S. corporations who were exploiting the country and the rich Americans and organized crime who used its casinos as a playground while on the other side of the walls people starved..but in this country "social democracy" means socialism (ooohhhh bad thing !!!)..and if you're someone out to become wealthy on the backs of others, socialism can't work because people provided for by a benevolent government can't be exploited..no exploitation...no cheap labor..no easy profit. .this goes to teacher salaries and the standard of education...local school millage votes are one of the only forms of taxation that can be directly voted down by the electorate so the people who want to live in a great country but don't want to pay for it always take the opportunity to keep education a low priority by voting them down keeping teacher salaries low, while requiring a higher education to teach, discourages the best from becoming teachers... which makes the system woefully inadequate...it also goes back to the need for cheap labor to be exploited...if an adequate education was available to everyone then the manual and menial labor force would be reduced and higher education means higher wages and less profit and a diminished cheap labor work force...you've seen this play out as education was focused on in the 60's forcing corporations to seek cheaper labor costs in Asia and elsewhere in the 70's and continuing today. ..There's also a racial and social Darwinism element to it as well...America was built on slave labor..the exploited and enslaved blacks in.the cotton field down south... (and they were used to build the U.S. Capitol) ..the exploitation of Chinese immigrants to build the railroads...the European immigrants to fuel the industrial revolution...people have been getting rich on the backs of others for a long time....going back to Castro...under Batista, Cuba had a 10% literacy rate...under Castro the literacy rate rose to 90%...sure, we kept "The Beard" at bay and economically stifled but the guy was ninety miles from the U.S. and never once cowered under the pressure...for that he gets credit...unfortunately his methods in some things weren't much better than Batista and the Soviet influence and methodology of control were reprehensible...but exactly what China lives under today...the same China we use as our big industrial park across the ocean.. Marijuana is illegal only because the government has never found a way to tax it and the alcohol and tobacco companies have never found a way to make a profit from it...end of story Late term abortions are wrong...my personal opinion is that beyond the eleventh week abortions should not be allowed.(end of first trimester) at the mother's option and only beyond the twelfth week if as a medical necessity and only then if the mother's life is endangered by going full-term...very emotive subject and it requires knowing exactly what happens during the formation from zygote to viable foetus...I also believe it's often exploited to espouse religious and political dogma using emotive rather than rational medical positions.. Mixed emotions about New Orleans too...it was a great town of great historical and cultural significance but do you rebuild a city that's under sea level and in a known hurricane pathway?...at any rate George W. Bush should have been taken much more to task for his failures there..which were probably more indicative of his gross incompetence rather than race but I'm certain race entered into it especially post-Katrina and the response and assistance that was given...Ok ...that was fun... Mr.Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted February 2, 2009 Share Posted February 2, 2009 Glad I checked back, this has become a fun thread after all. Fidel should be your hero. He did exactly what most of you know in fairness is the right thing to do. He battled corporate greed and won. Or in the words of Mr. Nelson: "...rid his country of vermin..., and kicked out the greedy U.S. corporations who were exploiting the country and the rich Americans who used its casinos as a playground while on the other side of the walls people starved." But in this mean ol' world it's what comes next that counts --- who fills the vacuum when the all-powerful boogie man is destroyed? Another boogie man? Worse? Humans have not yet solved that conundrum. BTW Nelson & CB you've likely just forgotten -- Howard Beales was shot "on air" by the Ecuminical Liberation Army -- "the 1st known person to be assassinated for bad ratings." Terrific movie and cast. Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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