epidermal Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 are there u.s made and import made? how can i tell? my stock ones see to slip a little. what would be a direct replacement? thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 are there u.s made and import made?how can i tell? my stock ones see to slip a little. what would be a direct replacement? thanks. They're not American-made but quite decent quality. I have a sneaking suspicion that your slippage is caused by incorrect winding on the pegs. The Epi owner's manual illustrates the proper technique or take a look at this: http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/stringing.htm Edit: ....and what CB says below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Do they 'jerk" or "ping" when they slip? If so, it's not the tuners, but the nut! Try some graphite powder (or #2 pencil led) in the nut slots...that should help. If not, you may need to take it to a luthier or GOOD repair tech, and have the nut filed a little bit, to avoid string binding. Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I asked this question in an earlier post...here was the answer: (thanks claydots!) claydots wrote: "The difference is in the gear ratio.... Import are 14:1 and Grovers you find on a Gibson are 18:1 ratio. In other words, it takes more turns to complete one revolution of the peg with a Gibson Grover than an Epi Grover. 18:1 will hold better. Hope that explains it..." Not disagreeing with any of the technicalities discussed prior-just adding to the pot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 "The difference is in the gear ratio.... Import are 14:1 and Grovers you find on a Gibson are 18:1 ratio. In other words' date=' it takes more turns to complete one revolution of the peg with a Gibson Grover than an Epi Grover. 18:1 will hold better.[/quote']I think the higher ratio makes pinpoint accuracy easier but I don't believe that the "hold" factor is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I think the higher ratio makes pinpoint accuracy easier but I don't believe that the "hold" factor is better. Ohhhhh... LOL, You are likely right. Thinking about it, WHY would it have anything to do with "hold". It's a gear for turning with no brake. Still, a useful fact to know, the gear ratio. "Mungo just pawn in game of life" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 "The difference is in the gear ratio.... Import are 14:1 and Grovers you find on a Gibson are 18:1 ratio. In other words' date=' it takes more turns to complete one revolution of the peg with a Gibson Grover than an Epi Grover. 18:1 will hold better. Hope that explains it..." [/quote'] Yeah, the ratio is different, but the ratio difference alone won't necessarily make it hold tune better or worse. If the tuner were to "slip" or unwind a bit, yeah, the 18:1s won't detune as much, but...... My personal opinion is folks want to immediately blame the tuners when (and this is only my simple-minded opinion) it's often the nut/saddle binding and/or improper string winding technique. I've never had tuners result in a guitar not holding tune in 40 years....including a couple of REALLY cheap guitars....but that's just my experience. ymmv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gashole Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yeah' date=' the ratio is different, but the ratio difference alone won't necessarily make it hold tune better or worse. If the tuner were to "slip" or unwind a bit, yeah, the 18:1s won't detune as much, but...... My personal opinion is folks want to immediately blame the tuners when (and this is only my simple-minded opinion) it's often the nut/saddle binding and/or improper string winding technique. I've never had tuners result in a guitar not holding tune in 40 years....including a couple of REALLY cheap guitars....but that's just my experience. ymmv. [/quote'] String winding...I don't have good technique there. Not sure how I get by to tell you the truth, but I do! I don't ever seem to end up with much string around the peg. It's sometimes a little frustrating -seeing these nice tight wraps that I can never seem to emulate! And I've read how to do it, seen diagrams a plenty. I stay in relative tune though...I credit graphite for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWANG Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I've never had a grover slip. I've heard guys say they prefer the 14:1 because they thought the 18:1 was too finicky.. more time consuming. I think everyone is nuts and whatever I use is perfect. But then, everyone seems to think that. You can get in the habit of clipping the string first.. thread it through the bridge.. pull it fairly tight right past it's peg.. about two inches max.. and clip. thread it through the post hole using just enough to loop beneath the first wind.. you usually end up with two windings, tops. vary where you clip it by string thickness. first time you do it.. dont clip.. just use a dry mark at where you think it should be clipped. then mount the string. that'll tell you if you're off one way or the other.. and from doing it that way just once, you'll remember! Or, just buy some locking tuners, like me, and be done with all that! TWANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epidermal Posted February 20, 2009 Author Share Posted February 20, 2009 thanks everyone. i will have the nut replaced with bone nut, but i was checking about difference in the tuners if there is any. the higher ratio seems to be a little better. i'll probably go with those. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenrirlupus Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 I asked this question in an earlier post...here was the answer: (thanks claydots!) claydots wrote: "The difference is in the gear ratio.... Import are 14:1 and Grovers you find on a Gibson are 18:1 ratio. In other words' date=' it takes more turns to complete one revolution of the peg with a Gibson Grover than an Epi Grover. 18:1 will hold better. Hope that explains it..." Not disagreeing with any of the technicalities discussed prior-just adding to the pot! [/quote'] strange... my guitar is import and the tuners are 18:1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordNelson2U Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 are there u.s made and import made?how can i tell? my stock ones see to slip a little. what would be a direct replacement? thanks. Grovers haven't been made in the U.S. (Cleveland) since the late 80's. They first moved production to Mexico and then to Korea and now to China. They are an Asian-made product that uses an American name to give it credibility and help them sell....hmmm ..that sounds familiar...I've gone through four or five of the Asian sets where a tuner has gone South and no longer functions and I have USA Grovers on guitars from the 60's that are as tight as ever and functioning like new. The easiest way to tell an American-made Grover from the Asian stuff is the USA-made Grovers use a flat head screw for the knob tension and is stamped "USA" on the under side. The Asian version uses a Philips head screw and has no such stamp. Gibson does now use both the Asian Grovers and Asian Gotoh-made Kluson-style where they once used German-made Schallers and it doesn't have anything to do with tuning ratios. The Schallers would be a close direct replacement but the headstock screw arrangement is different so you're going to end up with extra holes. Because of their famous name Grovers are perceived to be of higher quality than they are and while quite adequate tuners, they are still in the second tier along with Gotoh and Ping as far as quality goes. The top tier is occupied by the higher quality machines such as Schallers, Sperzels and the best of any of them, Waverlys. Lord Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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