Big Norm Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I had a Korean made 2003 Les Paul Classic ...it was perfect I had a Korean made 1997 Les Paul Custom...it was perfect I had a Chinese ( DW) Classic 2006 Les Paul...It was Crap..really crap I now have a 2006 Korean made Les Paul Ultra and it's a very great guitar in every way... How can I trust Chinese made Epi now ? If I have to buy another Epi, it will certainly be made in Korea... I will never buy another Chinese Epi...But it could only be me...maybe I was unlucky with my DW Chinese LP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Norm Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 here's a plan' date=' make em in Canada. It wont cost as much as nashville, and there's a ton of luthiers up here that seem low on work. There might be minor temperature problems due to the dam snowstorms to heat waves. But they'll figure it out Cho/cheers and thanks[/quote'] I would be proud that Epi would be made in Canada...But no Canadian will work for $1.00 an hour... and for the temperature issues, "Godin" are making great guitars in the Montreal area...I don't think they bothered with temperatures waves. I know...you will tell me that most of Godin are assemble in New Hampshire...but temperature in NH is only a few degrees higher than Montreal...so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabarah Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 I guess that makes sense because ive played some great godins. Arent some made in the eastern townships? THat region gets colde than most of montreal and all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabarah Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 i just thought of that, how much are the chinese paid for working at quing dao? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Norm Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 i just thought of that' date=' how much are the chinese paid for working at quing dao?[/quote'] I don't really know, but I think I'm not too far of true with $1.00 an hour... Maybe somebody could tell us ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stabarah Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 im not sure they'd give that out. But maybe if you click the jobs section on the epiphone site, they mite give job info like hours paycheck and conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 It's interesting....with the information that's available, to anyone with a computer, and Internet access, it can't be too much longer, before the "wage" factor will be a real problem, for companies, both foreign and domestic. As more people, all over the world, gain a better understanding of the cost to profit ratio, there well may be another "revolution," to level the wage field. So, that it won't be any more cost effective to have things made in Asia, as it would in the US or Europe. Asia is growing economically in monsterous ways. This world wide recession and (possibly coming) depression, may slow that down for awhile...but, eventually, it will still happen. If companies want to compete, then...it will be in Service and QUALITY! It's actually already happening, which is why Gibson and other comsumer goods companies, have moved from Japan, to Korea, now to China, Indonesia, Vietnam...on so forth. Eventually, it won't really matter! "Same, same" as some of my Chinese friends say now. LOL! Gibson (and others) maybe forced, eventually, to come back here, to have things made, just to avoid the shipping and/or import duties/taxes, etc. Some of our economist members may have more enlightened information, but it seems "logical," to me. But, maybe that's just me? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyushPresley Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 i just thought of that' date=' how much are the chinese paid for working at quing dao?[/quote'] I don't really know' date=' but I think I'm not too far of true with $1.00 an hour... Maybe somebody could tell us ?[/quote'] It should be about a Dollar and just because it's Qingdao it doesn't make any difference, to be precise (as seen in a Documentary) an American company (not Epiphone) any American Production company pays less than a dollar. They pay something about 60-70 cents per hour and I don't believe that Epiphone is different than another companies.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jook Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Some good points above. To reiterate and add: * Masterbilts are proof that the Chinese factories are more than capable of producing high quality guitars. * It takes time for the factories to settle in to a certain standard. When the Japanese factories first appeared, everyone used to complain about the poor quality of the Japanese guitars! * The quality of the Chinese factories are completely dependent on the amount of money and QC that Gibson/Epiphone USA is willing to invest into the brand. The poor QC that is evident in Chinese factories are directly related to the minimum costs that the parent American companies are paying. The fact is, it is Gibson/Epi USA that wants to cut costs which is why they have been outsourced to these Asian factories. And time and time again, they want to minimize costs further (from Japan, to Korea, to China, now Indonesia), jumping from one country to another - going for the lowest bid, trying to make the biggest margins. True' date=' very true. The problem is making them good consistently-and in China that is never a guarantee. There is only so much control that Gibson can excercise in a police state. The Chinese factory will do its own thing whenever they decide to do it, and I don't think an American or any other corporation can do much about that but wring their hands and eventually cancel the contract... [/quote'] It's the old adage, "you get what you pay for"! Gibson went to China because the Chinese factories offered the lowest costs, under-cutting Korean and Japanese factories. How did they do that? It's no magic, they cut corners. By agreeing to those costs, Gibson is asking for this quality of product. You know that Gibson is spending less on the Chinese factories than the Korean ones - I mean, otherwise, why would they move there? You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't expect to get the same quality at a lower cost. It's not just Gibson, it's the same with large companies everywhere. The quality of products all over the market (from toasters to refridgeraters) have gone downhill as manufacturing have moved into these asian countries, but fact is, we're the ones deciding on compromising quality and cutting costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchCassidy Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 My quality control example- last november (i think), I was shopping for an epi dot studio for my friends christmas present. It was a store like guitar center, but with only 2 locations. Of the 5 chinese made studios, only 2 of them seemed fit to sell. I'm not sure what the deal was, but the pots were totally loose and floppy and the 3 way switch could do 360's. I didn't bother to plug the crappy ones into an amp to try them out, but it was kind of embarrassing to see such junk pumped out by one of my favorite guitar manufacturers. The one I bought him, though, seemed to be pretty nice and should be for a long time. Had good sustain too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Of my two Epi Les Pauls, the flametop is a 2005. I bought it at GC and inspected it carefully. Later, I spotted a couple of tiny finish flaws around the heel of the neck where it meets the body. The heritage red met the binding with a little flaw from taping and finishing. There wasn't a nice clean change of color. You could see where some of the red got under the tape and onto the binding. I didn't notice it until months afterward. The '56 reissue Goldtop LP is immaculate. I've found no flaws in the finish at all. Both guitars would have benefitted from a better fret dressing at the factory. I had to do both of them myself to get the action where I wanted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I haven't played that many EEs. But the QC on my 2008 EE LP was horrendous. A certified lemon. After some minor(but essential) work it may well be better than my prized 2004 Unsung LP, which never needed any work. So who knows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well, no disrespect to Epiphone (I've had many, have enjoyed most and hated just a couple, and still own one), but I've made myself a promise. I'm going to save up and buy the guitar I actually want rather than being side-tracked by distractions along the way... I want a Gibson 61 reissue SG. Failing that a Gibson SG standard in heritage cherry. If it takes 2 years to save up the money, well it takes 2 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I had a Korean made 2003 Les Paul Classic ...it was perfectI had a Korean made 1997 Les Paul Custom...it was perfect I had a Chinese ( DW) Classic 2006 Les Paul...It was Crap..really crap I now have a 2006 Korean made Les Paul Ultra and it's a very great guitar in every way... How can I trust Chinese made Epi now ? If I have to buy another Epi' date=' it will certainly be made in Korea... I will never buy another Chinese Epi...But it could only be me...maybe I was unlucky with my DW Chinese LP...[/quote'] And they can use that genuine Canadian Mahogany that we read about with those fake Epiphones a few months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin kyle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 well i dont own any new chinese epis but i have a bunch of students who do and for the most part they are pretty good. my one student with a slash gold top well his is excellent and his sons epi lp standard just needs the electronicsupgrade. the weight is off from my fine guitars lp standard from 1996 which had junk electronics in it. replaced with CTS,switchcraft, and emg zw 81/85 set. and my 2002 unsung epi zw bullseye was perfect. although i replaced the emghz with a zw set modded to 18volt system and it is now perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesoggy Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I just bought a new casino made in 2007 from China last week. I had a Korean made that I sold three years ago, and in my opinion the quality is similiar. My only problem with the China casino is the g string slipping (ping!) which I'm guessing is either stringing technique(although I had new strings put on and set up by a pro), the tuners, or the cheap nut. I plan on replacing the tuners and the nut, but other than that it's great, I just love the neck on the casinos. Visually it's near perfect, no bridge buzz or volume/tone control noise(yet). Robert Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yew Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There is a lot more crap, but the chinese manufacturing plants are still pretty new, once they get pride and experience, epis will start to own also, stuff coming from china is starting to get as good as UK or US manufacturing, But the baseline models still seem to have low quality, but higher models (say anything above £200 ($3-400) wil ghave decent quality The main problem is hat they get more cut off by gibson, as they dont want their cheaper brand being better than them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 II had a Chinese ( DW) Classic 2006 Les Paul...It was Crap..really crap I've never heard anything good about DW Epis. If you don't mind my asking' date=' what was so crap about the particular example you owned? [b']AntonyM71 wrote:[/b] stuff coming from china is starting to get as good as UK...manufacturing Yup, if they keep at it maybe they can build stuff to the same quality that Rover cars used to. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 if someones got the facts and willing to do some quick calculations then maybe we can see. I've done this a few times before... The average monthly wage in urban China is 1,750 yuan. That's $255. The average monthly wage in Tennessee is $3078. Both of those are for 2006. That's roughly what each employee would be paid every month in both countries. The American makes twelve times what the Chinese worker makes. They can continue to use inferior wood (compared to the Gibsons), but the cost of the labour is going to effect the price of the instrument. They can cut bodies with a computer (Gibson does), but some things still require human attention. Unless they can find some extra-fast American workers, it's going to cost more. In my opinion, they should open a Mexican factory like Fender has. The question then, though, is do they fire all the Chinese workers and go through a dip in quality while Mexican workers are learning how to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lpfan Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think Epi needs to come home too! Better yet build the factroy here in Richmond, Ky and I will do the quality control since thats my major at EKU. LOL! I should be finished with school several months before the factory is ready. Also a good product with a good advertising campaign would help. The Slash and Zakk Wylde campaigns have been good but thats it! Its time for Epiphone to invest in itself because in the long run they could end up losing more!! They already have a product with tremendous potential so why waste it?:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manimal Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 This topic is tough in two parts, for me. First off, regardless of what woods may or may not be in an Epiphone LP Custom, it it feels, plays and sounds good, and the finish is good, cool. BUT, almost more than HALF of the white or ebony Epi Customs that I've seen lately have the most shoddy fit and finish work that I've ever seen on an Epi!!! WTF!!!! Paint and poly glopped all over the bindings!!! Can't you stay in the lines Epi LOL???!!!! Have you seen some of the neck pockets in these things????? Shocking!!!! You could have a secret stash of Fender Extra Heavy pics stowed away in the gaps of those neck pockets!!! JEEZ!!! Now the Epi LP Standards and Studios being made lately LOOK very nice in fit and finish, and many play really nice too. Where quality NEEDS to improve on these guitars is the "mystery wood" issues. I REFUSE to buy the current line of MIC Epi LP's, because they are "gift wrapped" in veneers on the top, back, even up the back of the neck. Top veneer is fine, but the back and back of neck???? Come on Epi. Unacceptable for the money. I'd rather see the seams involved with a 2-3 peice back of some sort of REAL wood. And if you're going to advertise them as SOLID mahogany, then don't put in Alder/Agathis/Mahogany "Type" woods, and billions of pieces to boot!!! At the current prices Epi is charging for MIC Epi LP's, *2-3 peice bodies with NO veneer on back, made with mahogany *1 peice mahogany neck with NO veneer *An actual MAPLE cap on ALL Epi LP Standards and Customs, top veneer in price range is acceptable. This is "par", and should be their MINIMUM standard!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 JeffSmith, I've never been able to figure out whether your avatar is supposed to be the Godfather or Ignatious Reilly, with you being a New Orleans dude & all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 JeffSmith' date=' I've never been able to figure out whether your avatar is supposed to be the Godfather or Ignatious Reilly, with you being a New Orleans dude & all......[/quote'] I think, it's "Mr. Creosote" (Terry Jones) the "Impossibly Fat Man," from Monty Python's "The Meaning Of Life!" A Hilarious and totally disgusting part of the film! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think' date=' it's "Mr. Creosote" (Terry Jones) the "Impossibly Fat Man," from Monty Python's "The Meaning Of Life!" A Hilarious and totally disgusting part of the film! CB[/quote'] Available on youtube.com (although they leave out the song at the beginning of the skit). That scene was worth the entire ticket price. Check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think' date=' it's "Mr. Creosote" (Terry Jones) the "Impossibly Fat Man," from Monty Python's "The Meaning Of Life!" A Hilarious and totally disgusting part of the film! CB[/quote'] Damn! I thought it was Uncle Monty from Withnail & I...been a few years since I saw it I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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