good casino upgrades?

[ataylor]

i'd like to purchase a casino sometime this year and it will probably be just the standard model (as i can't really justify over twice as much for the elitist model right now). what are some upgrades some of you have done to the standard casino model and where have you gotten those upgrades from? i'm not a fan of the bigsby, i'd prefer to keep the tailpiece, although if there's a better trapeze tailpiece that might be worth looking into.

 

anyway, any suggestions?

[Ron G]

Why do you assume the guitar will need "upgrades"? Especially since you don't

even own it yet and, I assume, haven't played one enough (if at all) to determine

if such "upgrades" are necessary. If you haven't already guessed, I'm not a fan of

knee-jerk upgrades. After spending major bucks on tailpiece, bridge, pots, caps,

wires, nut and tuners, it'll still be pretty much the same guitar - your wallet will

just be lighter. But if it makes you feel better, go for it. Also, if you're into high

gain, DO NOT buy a Casino.

[Lord Summerisle]

From what I've seen (having played quite a few Chinese Casinos), the construction of the guitar itself is quite sound. The P90s are excellent (I actually don't understand the change-out-the-stock-P90s-in-my-Casino-thread that's going on at the moment.)

 

The tuners are garbage. Take them off, throw them in the trash, stick a set of Grovers on there.

 

You'll probably find yourself changing out the switch as well.

 

Then there's the nut. If the guitar won't stay in tune after you've changed the tuners, then you have found the culprit. I'd go with a Graph Tec myself.

 

Oh, and the bridge will probably rattle like the exhaust on an old Chevy. Think about replacing it with a Gotoh.

[ataylor]

Why do you assume the guitar will need "upgrades"? Especially since you don't

even own it yet and' date=' I assume, haven't played one enough (if at all) to determine

if such "upgrades" are necessary. If you haven't already guessed, I'm not a fan of

knee-jerk upgrades. After spending major bucks on tailpiece, bridge, pots, caps,

wires, nut and tuners, it'll still be pretty much the same guitar - your wallet will

just be lighter. But if it makes you feel better, go for it. Also, if you're into high

gain, DO NOT buy a Casino.[/quote']

 

why do you assume i haven't played one? don't i i deserve a little more credit than that? why would i take anything after that assumption seriously if you're just going to patronize me? i have played several of them. i play them at shops whenever they're in stock. obviously that's different than owning the guitar, which is why i'm asking people who do. i figure if there's anything i can do to improve the guitar, it might be worth doing.

[Ron G]

why do you assume i haven't played one? don't i i deserve a little more credit than that? why would i take anything after that assumption seriously if you're just going to patronize me? i have played several of them. i play them at shops whenever they're in stock. obviously that's different than owning the guitar' date=' which is why i'm asking people who do. i figure if there's anything i can do to improve the guitar, it might be worth doing.[/quote']

I'm sorry you felt "patronized" - I didn't mean to offend. I was simply stating my opinion,

that's all. Feel free to ignore it.

[JohnMcClane5000]

Stick a Bigsby on it, the ratteling of the tailpiece is quite annoying... I don't mind the tuners? Mine are quite good actually (they have a "e" on it, is that a good or a bad thing?). Changing the Selector switch is also a good idea, since mine has become loosey-goosey (while pretending to be Pete Townshend )

And by the way, I like the pickups just the way they are! Casinos tend to have a Gretsch-esque tone which I love...

 

Nick

[pohatu771]

The only upgrades I can see doing to my Casino is replacing the electronics... a few pots are starting to scratch, and the switch has been tempermental since I got it.

 

Cosmetic upgrades, I can see... I'd like to put black pickup covers, a black pickguard, and black knobs on mine to make it a little more Gibson-y.

[pohatu771]

Stupid website... it hangs for half an hour, and then when I re-submit, it works twice.

[clarkuss]

Tuners: Hit and miss. I've had 4 Casinos and only had to replace the tuners on one.

 

Selector Switch: Always the first one to go - All my Korean Casinos needed a new selector switch soon after buying!

 

Pick Ups: Never had to replace them thus far but would always consider trying something else out

 

Electrics: I've had the odd scratchy sound in the pots but have never changed them because I keep me volume on both pick ups the same throughout a gig

 

Bridge: Does rattle but if you can put up with it then so be it. I know a lot of people who have upgraded to the gotoh and if i could be bothered I would probably do the same.

 

The only other mods I've ever made was the standard 'lennonizing'

 

I also take the opinion that if it's not broken, don't fix it. Get it and play it until something starts to bother you the consider changing it. In my experience, bar the selector switch, some of these casinos can hold up without needing upgraded for 10-15 years and beyond.

[Lord Summerisle]

i'm not a fan of the bigsby' date=' i'd prefer to keep the tailpiece, although if there's a better trapeze tailpiece that might be worth looking into. [/quote']

 

Well, I have no experience of using this, but it might be worth considering....?

 

http://store.guitarfetish.com/clepcagiesst.html

 

also available in gold...

 

http://store.guitarfetish.com/clgoepcagies.html

[jfalkens]

I sent back my Casino because it wouldn't stay in tune. I was upset that most Epis come with Grovers but the Casino doesn't.

 

I would upgrade the tuners (like John Lennon did) to Grovers.

[JohnMcClane5000]

I would recommend uprgrading the tuners to similar (but far better) Gotoh Vintage, or Grover Vintage tuners (Kluson-esque). I hate it when there are holes sticking out of a guitar (especially the headstock)...

 

Nick

[bluelake07]

I recently had a new wiring harness (wires, orange drop caps, CTS pots and quality pickup selector switch) and bone nut installed. Very pleased with the result. I also have Graph Tech saddles and haven't experienced the rattling bridge problem so I've kept the original. The pickups are stock and sound good to me, but I do wonder what the guitar would sound like with pickups from Fralin, Lollar, Armstrong, etc. The tuners would be the next upgrade if there is one.

[Greg M]

I've had my Natural finish Casino now for about 3 years, but it wasn't my first. My wife bought me a Cherry Red Casino for my birthday that year and it was impossible to do a proper/standard setup on that guitar. The guitar was just not properly made and should never have passed QC (although it looked beautiful). So I returned it for the Natural one. The Natural one setup easily and played well. However, it wouldn't stay in tune, the bridge rattled, the guitar was producing way too much sound from behind the bridge, and the P-90s didn't sound like P-90s. The P-90s were way overwound and measured 16k ohms passive resistance (about double what they should have been). My Natural Casino was MIK.

 

I replaced the tuners (real Kluson's), bridge (now a roller bridge), tailpiece (now a Bigsby B7), and the pick-ups (Kent Armstrong P-90's). This Casino is now a very good guitar.

 

Here's my point. When it comes to guitars, each guitar will be different even if they are back-to-back off of the assembly line. Each guitar will need to be evaluated individually, not by model. Some are really bad (like the Cherry Red Casino my wife bought me) and some are near perfect. Generally, the lower you go in price, the more you have to worry about QC. For instance, you are less likely to get way off spec pick-ups from a Gibson than an Epi - but you still might. On the other hand, you can find some real jewels in low and moderately priced guitars. For the money I put into my Casino plus what I paid new, I have a very, very good guitar. Another example is my son's Mexican Strat. I paid $300 for it new about 8 years ago. It played very well stock. I changed the pick-ups and saddles. His Mexican Strat now plays better and sounds way better than my American Standard 50th Anniversay Strat. The wood in his Mexican strat is way more resonant than my Strat.

 

If you get a Casino, just make sure it is made/put together well and decide what you need to upgrade, if anything, afterwords.

 

Good luck,

Greg

[JohnMcClane5000]

I just brought a Mexican Muddy Waters Tele to the store 'cause it arrived with a 'dead' output jack, a badly shaped pickguard and scratches on the sides of the metal-thingy where the bridge pup is... great FENDER quality I guess!!!

 

At least my Korean Casino is a top guitar... best one I own...

 

Nick

[Redddog]

I couldn't disagree with Ron G more.

 

I did a total makeover on my Peerless Casino and it has transformed the guitar into a beauty easily comparable to my buddy's es-330 (the gibson counterpart to the casino)

 

Here's what I did :

 

1. Replaced the tuners. Went with grovers and they make a gigantic difference

2. Kent Armstrong pups. Hand wound in America and they made another huge difference. Night and day.

3. CTS pots, switchcraft switch and input and wiring. Took the guitar to yet another level.

4. Bigsby B7. Added a weight and tuning stability that makes the guitar IMO. Very cool lookin gas well.

5. Bone nut and gotoh bridge. Just to complete the transformation.

6. Just for fun, I put some vintage black witchhat knobs and one of those cool Lennon rubber switch ring. Cool.

 

All in all, these improvements have transformed the guitar from a good, cheap mass-produced korean knock-off to a legitimate instrument that sounds fantastic, plays even better and still comes a good 500 bones under the elitist. But hey, this is my opinion and I'm sure there are guys out there who will scoff at what I say and argue that the elitist is simply a better class regardless of what you do. Better tone woods etc. (That one always makes me laugh). I used to be one of those guys. My 335 was the only guitar in the world as far as I was concerned.

 

Well the casino gets most of the playing time these days. Not because it's a better guitar necessarily but more so because I grab it when I'm sitting around working out new material and it's more acoustical. The point is, I can play my '67 335 anytime I want and I will regularly choose the Cassie. It's a different animal than the 335 but just as good IMO.

 

I have not found a single elitist that surpasses my MIK with the upgrades. The stock Casino cannot, however, come close.

 

FWIW

[jfalkens]

The reason that I sent my Casino back was because I didn't feel for the money I paid for it that I would have to pay the extra $40-$50 for tuners. They should come from Epiphone for that price. I mean the Les Pauls of even lower price come with Grovers.

 

Really, if the tuners that come stock on the Casino are supposedly good tuners, then why do the Elitist come with Grovers?

[JohnMcClane5000]

The reason that I sent my Casino back was because I didn't feel for the money I paid for it that I would have to pay the extra $40-$50 for tuners. They should come from Epiphone for that price. I mean the Les Pauls of even lower price come with Grovers.

 

Really' date=' if the tuners that come stock on the Casino are supposedly good tuners, then why do the Elitist come with Grovers?[/quote']

 

You can get real Kluson Tuners for a buck fifty on eBay... That isn't the problem... But I agree, if somebody buys a product, no matter how cheap it is, he/she should expect everything to work fine. To be perfectly honest. I have the stock tuners on my Casino... I'm quite the bender and it hardy gets out of tune. STOCK TUNERS AREN'T AS BAD AS THEIR REPUTATION! --> For those pea-pickers out there who get a heatattack after every time the guitar get out of tune.

The only reason I'd exchange the tuners would be for the looks of the epi ones. But that's just a matter of taste...

Stock isn't that bad you see. But there are people out there who can't stand to have a guitar that sounds/looks like 3557624523 other guitars out there, so they start customizing and stuff until the plastic on their credit cards start to melt and they're happy with the result.

 

At the end of the day it's much more important to actually PLAY THE INSTRUMENT instead of wasting hours for customizing and so on...

 

Nick

[Lord Summerisle]

 

You can get real Kluson Tuners for a buck fifty on eBay... That isn't the problem... But I agree' date=' if somebody buys a product, no matter how cheap it is, he/she should expect everything to work fine. To be perfectly honest. I have the stock tuners on my Casino... I'm quite the bender and it hardy gets out of tune. STOCK TUNERS AREN'T AS BAD AS THEIR REPUTATION! --> For those pea-pickers out there who get a heatattack after every time the guitar get out of tune.

The only reason I'd exchange the tuners would be for the looks of the epi ones. But that's just a matter of taste...

Stock isn't that bad you see. But there are people out there who can't stand to have a guitar that sounds/looks like 3557624523 other guitars out there, so they start customizing and stuff until the plastic on their credit cards start to melt and they're happy with the result.

 

At the end of the day it's much more important to actually PLAY THE INSTRUMENT instead of wasting hours for customizing and so on...

 

Nick[/quote']

 

Sorry, but I can't agree with you re: the tuners. I haven't encountered a MIC Casino yet which I wouldn't change the tuners on. MIK Casinos too, actually.

 

Here's the thing. You buy a Dot and it has Grovers.

 

They've tried to keep the look of the Casino, and used those crappy 'e' branded kluson copies...

 

But the Elitist gets Grovers.

 

Go figure...

[bluelake07]

2. Kent Armstrong pups. Hand wound in America and they made another huge difference. Night and day.

 

The Kent Armstrong pups distributed by WD Music Products are designed by Mr. Armstrong, but manufactured by Dong Ho Electronics in the Philippines.

[joseph60611]

I have a nice MIK casino, did all the upgrades, Armstrong p-90 PU, Bone nut, Grover tuners, replaced all the electronics with Gibson switches knobs and wiring.

 

and the final product was a very fine guitar,

recorded with it a lot.

 

now, i recently purchased an elitist casino, and i must say comparing both, and recording and listening to both, the elitist definitely undeniably a superior guitar.

 

 

all my luthiers agree, as well as many other musician that play on it.

 

It is the wood and single piece neck.

 

that's the fact.

[Greg M]

Single piece necks are another myth. Taylor doesn't make a single guitar with a single piece neck. I It would be hard to argue that Taylor doesn't make good guitars. As long as the neck is "live" it doesn't matter. Also note that a neck being single piece does not mean it will be live and resonant.

 

I guess I will reiterate what I said in my earlier post in another way. Especially with mid an lower end guitars the QC can be pretty variable. There will be Casinos with good tuners and others not. Some will have good pick-ups and others not. You might get one where everything is good and another where nothing is good. Each one needs to be evalutated on its own merit. This true of all production guitars from all companies that I know of today. Some are just a bit better (or worse) than others.

 

My Casino is one of my lower end guitars and I am very happy with it (post modification) for what it is.

 

Thanks,

Greg

[bluelake07]

Here's the Elitist neck description from Sweetwater:

 

All Elitist necks are cut at a 14o grain orientation from one piece of wood for optimum strength, stability and tonal response. As with all great instruments, the necks are then carefully and individually fitted to the body using a hand-glued, dovetail neck joint. The Elitist '65 Casino has a 22 fret, 1-piece mahogany set neck with an rosewood fingerboard, which imparts a warm midrange sound.

[Greg M]

You can believe what you want. A very long time ago when I was a cabinet maker I learned that properly glued joints are actually stronger than the virgin wood.

 

The character of the wood is much more important to tone - glued or not.

 

At the end of the day it's about how it sounds, how it plays, and reliability. Not what's on the headstock or in a product description. I really like Sweetwater and have done a lot of business with them. Most of their product decriptions are straight from the vendor spec sheet or web site - and that's OK.

 

Make some music.

 

 

Greg

[Notes_Norton]

I have a 2001 MIK (Peerless) Casino that I bought used.

 

I also have a 1970 "stock" Gibson ES-330 (see picture below).

 

The original owner of my Casino changed the tuners to Grovers, the pots and switch to US sized parts and the pickups to Seymour Duncans. I don't know how much of that work was needed, but plugged in it actually sounds a bit better than my Gibson. (I attribute that to the pickups because my Gibson sounds better unplugged.)

 

I replaced the pickguard and knobs because I thought they didn't go well with the NAT wood of the Casino.

 

I had a bit of tuning problems with both the Casino and the Gibson until I learned the trick of using a bit of pencil graphite in the grooves of the nut when I change strings. Problem solved.

 

 

Before changing the PG and knobs:

 

 

After changing the PG and knobs:

 

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