Stock Tube Amp

[m-theory]

I did notice that high volumes the speaker seems to " fart ". Would a speaker upgrade improve this ? Wouldn't the same size speaker do the same ?

If it's farting under a whopping 5 watts, it's quite the crappy speaker. My guess would be that you're hearing the typical low end flubbiness that all of these cheap, SE Chinese amps seem to have, due to flakey design and poor component quality throughout.

 

That said, a speaker upgrade in any amp is the single most dramatic thing that you can do to improve/change the sound of any amp. If what you're hearing is, in fact, speaker cone rattle, an upgrade would solve it. Again, my guess is that what you're hearing is just the amp itself.

[sledge57]

I have not tried the Vypyr line Dave. That line was not out at the time I tried the ValveKing. Doesn't the Vypyr line have some smaller offerings ? I'll have to check that out.

 

Vypyr's come in 15 and 30 watt (I have a 30) BUT I think 60 is the smallest tube amp in the Vypyr line.

 

If you don't need a tube amp the 15w sells for $100 but it doesn't have all the effects, it has the rack effects but not the stomp boxes.

 

I like mine but I am going to sell it and buy a tube amp.

 

I found that even though it has all the effects built in I never use 90% of them, I do like the different amp models though, however it still don't sound like a tube amp.

[sexygibson]

Thanks M-Theory. You very well could be right; it may just be the amp that I'm hearing. I may just replace that speaker when I can though because, as you said, it can only improve the sound of the amp.

[brianh]

SG, this has your name on it:

 

http://forums.epiphone.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=9036&find=unread

[sexygibson]

I would have been very interested in that Brian if i hadn't just picked up this little Crate. I think I'll be happy with it for a while and may even replace the tubes and speaker.

[bluesman345]

Hi All,

Have you thought of an Epi Valve Standard (15 watt Class A/=P~- they are discontinued and should be fairly inexpensive. Previous posts have raised concerns about the PCB, etc., but so far it's been good. I do find the amp to be rather "dark" sounding, but my Boss GE-7 EQ puts the sparkle into it. I've had fun doing some rockabilly and surf/twang type stuff with this amp. One thing that I really like is the sweet distortion I get when I crank the gain and turn down the master. I think this amp is going to grow on me, if it stands up :-)

Frank.

[SlagJones]

Any new tube amp that you buy today that's in the "inexpensive" catagory will come with a set of flaws and limitations' date=' obviously, with some being more objectionable than others. You can't build "awesome" amps and sell them for $400-$500. You have to compromise on everything in order to meet a price point like that. What you have to hope for is that the circuit design is at least good enough to overcome some of the obvious materials deficiencies, in order to make the amp useable.

 

That said, there seem to be many manufacturers that have found ways to do this. The Fender XD Champs, and both Juniors are worthy contenders, as is the Egnator Rebel, the Orange Tiny Terror, Peavey's Classic and Windsor lines, Blackheart, and I'm sure, many, many others, including, probably Epiphone. How about that "Little Lanilei" from Songworks? That's a pretty interesting little amp.

 

We live in an era of abundant choices for tube amps, and that includes those with rather modest price points. As long as a person isn't expecting a $400, 15 watt tube amp to be the greatest amp ever made, there are probably dozens of viable choices. [/quote']

 

So you like the Fender XD amps? Is the Vibro Champ XD basically a 5 watt SE amp like the 600 Champ with some amp models and effects built into the front end of it? I read somewhere that it really wasn't a "true" tube amp. Whatever that means.

[brianh]

I would have been very interested in that Brian if i hadn't just picked up this little Crate. I think I'll be happy with it for a while and may even replace the tubes and speaker.

 

Well, uh, I broke down and bought it meself. Thom is supposed to ship it today, curious what it sounds like, looks like a nice amp for home office noodling. I have a Mojo 10" replacement on the way for the Valve Special, may try it in there too.

 

Cheers,

[Eracer_Team]

SG the Crate is very similar to the VJ and will respond to the same mod's that go into the VJ.

I just looked at SEwatt and the Crate section doesn't have much but take a look.

 

As for the Vypyr.. there are two models from what I can see, one is tube based and the other solid state based.

You'll have to watch out which one you're looking at.

[sexygibson]

 

Well' date=' uh, I broke down and bought it meself. Thom is supposed to ship it today, curious what it sounds like, looks like a nice amp for home office noodling. I have a Mojo 10" replacement on the way for the Valve Special, may try it in there too.

 

Cheers,[/quote']

 

Congrats Brian ! I've heard nothing but good things about them. I'm sure you'll be pleased.

[sexygibson]

SG the Crate is very similar to the VJ and will respond to the same mod's that go into the VJ.

I just looked at SEwatt and the Crate section doesn't have much but take a look.

 

As for the Vypyr.. there are two models from what I can see' date=' one is tube based and the other solid state based.

You'll have to watch out which one you're looking at.[/quote']

 

Thanks Eracer. I'll look into those mods.

[Dave]

While we are on the subject of stock tube amps and particularly the Vypyr, does anyone have an opinion on the validity of modeling tube amps in general, compared to all-tube amps, especially the Vypyr? I've been meaning to order the schematic and compare the output stage to other all-tube amps. I've looked at Fender schematics and noticed that the preamp tubes are in some cases split (dual triode) and that the output stages are in parallel, even with 4 6L6s. The extra preamp tubes are used in reverb, tone circuits, and tremelo functions, thus the single 12ax7 in the Vypyr preamp. The Vypyr output uses dual 6L6s.

 

The Vypyr has an absolute definite difference in tone than the other SS and modeling amps that I've tried. I can't describe the tone except that it is lively and reminiscent of my Fender tube days. Response and attack are nice and the distortion harmonics are clean and remind me of Warren Haynes's Soldano amp. With just a little overdrive, you can hold a power chord and the not hear extraneous noise in the output. I think this is supposed to be due to even order harmoncs in tube amps? Whatever the case, it's a sweet sound.

[Dave]

I guess I shut this thread down when I posted the modeling vs all tube amp question, LOL.

[sexygibson]

I have owned a couple of modeling amps, Line 6 Spider and the Vox Valvetronix, and they were fair for what they were. Some things about them I loved, some I hated.

I haven't had the chance to try Peaveys new offering but have heard some good things about them. I think modeling amps have come a long way but I doubt will ever win over many of the tube purists.

[m-theory]

So you like the Fender XD amps? Is the Vibro Champ XD basically a 5 watt SE amp like the 600 Champ with some amp models and effects built into the front end of it? I read somewhere that it really wasn't a "true" tube amp. Whatever that means.

I don't own one, and have never played through one, but have heard and read good things about them, and think that the clips I've heard online sound fantastic.

 

I haven't seen a schematic for it, but I suspect that the modeling and digital effects are in the preamp section. The amp has a single 12ax7 and single 6v6, as I understand, so it sounds as though it's a true hybrid, but with the most important elements being tube-based.

 

I really have no use for it or the Super Champ XD, but I am severely tempted to buy the 15 watt SC, if I can find the right deal. I almost snagged a "scratch 'n' dent" MF VCXD for just over $200, but if I'm going to use this for rehearsal, I'd really want more than 5 watts.

 

I find it interesting, as well as telling, that modeling designers have come to grips with the glaring limitations of modeling amps, and are beginning to incorporate the voicing and effects modeling technology into tube amps. I suspect we'll see more and more of that, because I have to say, purely SS modelers just don't sound or feel tube-like on their own.

 

I won't say that they'll NEVER nail down the output section of a tube amp, in SS form, but I will say that I believe that they're decades away from it. They don't have near the computing horsepower or the programming algorithms to pull it off yet. There are simply too many variables at play for them to successfully compute and pull off in real time, at present.

 

And, since, imo, the real magic of a tube amp is what happens when the output section is overdriven, it's absolutely paramount that an amp incorporate this, even if the preamp section, or parts of it, are SS. It's easy to duplicate an overdriven front end of a tube amp. Not so easy to duplicate an overdriven back end and power supply.

[Dave]

I won't say that they'll NEVER nail down the output section of a tube amp' date=' in SS form, but I will say that I believe that they're decades away from it. They don't have near the computing horsepower or the programming algorithms to pull it off yet. There are simply too many variables at play for them to successfully compute and pull off in real time, at present.

 

And, since, imo, the real magic of a tube amp is what happens when the output section is overdriven, it's absolutely paramount that an amp incorporate this, even if the preamp section, or parts of it, are SS. It's easy to duplicate an overdriven front end of a tube amp. Not so easy to duplicate an overdriven back end and power supply. [/quote']

 

I think you are right, m-theory, in that it is going to take a real tube output section with a output transformer to produce the sag that is characteristic of tube amps. SS amps have come a long way, but there is still some magic that hasn't been achieved. I think that it has a lot to do with the 10-100,000hz freq response of solid state devices that reveal too much of the signal.

 

I've been singing the praises of the Peavey Vypyr line because there are two models in the series that have a true 6L6 output stage with an output transformer. The Vypyr Tube 60 has 2 6L6s and the 120 has 4. They are Ruby brand tubes. The preamp, which is on the same circuit card as the output, is a Ruby 12ax7. This is driven by a DSP board that incorporates a 266mhz 32 bit floating point SHARC processor. All amplifier signal processing circuitry is analog after the DSP front end, which makes the Vypyr practically identical to a tube amp with effects and stompboxes connected to the front end, as you would have if they were on the floor in front of a tube amp.

 

All this for $449 (thanks to Chinese manufacturing). I'm very impressed by the sound of my tube 60 and I've owned three other top rated modeling amps.