mixed masterbilt messages

[kingped]

Hi there. As mentioned a few times I'm awaiting a Masterbilt to reach London, UK. But is it really the right guitar. Its the sound and price tag that are attracting me, but if ( as posted on here) more than a few are cracking, are they really worth it.

I mean this forum does not have every masterbilt owner on it yet there seem to be a significant number of casualties - do guitars that are not holding up warrant the praise?

 

anyone?

[Vic Flick]

Hi there. As mentioned a few times I'm awaiting a Masterbilt to reach London' date=' UK. But is it really the right guitar. Its the sound and price tag that are attracting me, but if ( as posted on here) more than a few are cracking, are they really worth it.

I mean this forum does not have every masterbilt owner on it yet there seem to be a significant number of casualties - do guitars that are not holding up warrant the praise?

 

anyone?[/quote']

 

You have the advantage because you are aware of the situation. You can be diligent and make sure it is kept in optimum conditions to prevent the wood from drying out. You might want to Google humidity & guitar, there some useful info. I'll cut and paste one article at the end of this post.

 

I just got a Masterbilt yesterday, it is a magnificent instrument. If yours is 1/2 as good as mine, you're going to be very happy. BTW, mine came with a humidifier. I appreciate it, I live in the desert!!!

 

 

Humidity and Your Guitar's Health

 

By Paul Jacobson

 

Probably the single most exasperating problem in caring for a high quality guitar is the tendency of the wood to shrink or expand with changes in humidity. Many expensive repairs could be avoided by understanding the ;effects of humidity change and by applying simple remedies available for dealing with them.

 

Nowadays almost all inexpensive guitars are made of plywood. Although plywood is mediocre as a tonewood, it is reliable and durable and withstands considerable atmospheric abuse. High quality guitars, on the other hand, are made of solid wood throughout, which is the primary reason they sound so much better than less expensive instruments. Solid woods, however, are more vulnerable to humidity change because they shrink and expand much more than plywood.

 

When humidity is very high, a guitar may sound, for want of a better word, "soggy." It lacks volume and projection and has a dull lifeless tone. It is also possible for a guitar to suffer structural damage when humidity is very high. A common problem is "bloating" in the back, especially if the back is made of rosewood or some other very hard wood. This is caused by wood expansion and, particularly, changes in the back-to-brace glue interface. In rare instances, this condition can lead to a glue joint failure. Another problem that can be caused by extreme humidity, as in tropical areas or a very damp basement, is deterioration of the glue and potentially even the wood itself.

 

The effects of very low humidity, which is a more common problem in temperate regions of the world, are often even more serious. Extreme moisture loss in the tonewoods sometimes makes a guitar sound brittle or "plinky," even though it may seem to have a peculiar, nervous liveliness. At a critical point in moisture loss, the accumulated stress brought about by uneven wood shrinkage relieves itself by producing one or more cracks and sometimes even glue joint failures.

 

The key concept in understanding humidity is what meteorologists call "relative humidity." This refers to the ability of air to retain and take on water, or to dry out moisture-containing objects it surrounds. The higher the temperature of the air, the more water it will hold before saturation and precipitation occur. Relative humidity is the amount of moisture present in the air expressed as a percentage of the total moisture the air is capable of holding at that particular temperature. It is humidity relative to temperature. If the relative humidity is 40%, then the air, if maintained at a constant temperature, will theoretically hold 59.999... % more moisture before precipitation occurs. As the relative humidity rises, the air takes on additional moisture more and more slowly. When relative humidity drops, the air accepts moisture more rapidly.

 

When relative humidity is very low, things (like guitars!) dry out fast.

 

There are a few places in the world, like parts of the American Southwest or other desert regions, where the normal everyday humidity may be low enough to be hazardous for a guitar. However, low relative humidity starts to become a problem anywhere when- ever buildings are heated. If the temperature outdoors is 20 degrees Fahrenheit, the relative humidity 50%, and we take this air inside and heat it to 70 degrees, then the relative humidity can drop to 30% or less. The colder it gets outside, the more the relative humidity drops inside.

 

The ideal humidity level for a guitar varies from one instrument to another, depending on the humidity conditions in the factory or workshop where it was assembled. The humidity during assembly establishes the basic dimensions of the instrument. This dimensional configuration is permanently locked into the total structure when the guitar is assembled. Thereafter, when humidity varies, the individual components will shrink or expand unevenly, while the dimensions of the total structure tend to remain proportionately constant.

 

The humidity level in a guitar workshop or factory is extremely important. It must be measured objectively at frequent intervals with an accurate, reliable tool and controlled within a narrow range; especially when assembling bodies. While it is possible for a workshop or factory environment to be too dry, the more typical problem is excessive humidity. If the humidity is too high during assembly, a guitar may suffer great damage when subjected to a North American winter--severe warping, multiple cracks, glue joint failure, etc. In my workshop, humidity is kept within a range of 40 to 45% when assembling bodies and 35 to 50% at other times during construction of instruments. This assures that a guitar will per- form optimally and keep its structural integrity under the widest possible range of humidity conditions.

 

For guitarists, direct objective measurement of relative humidity presents some practical problems. A sling psychrometer, which I use in my workshop, is a very accurate tool but is also rather expensive and cumbersome to use. On the other hand, a dial-reading hygrometer, ' which is really the only other practical alternative for a guitarist; is likely to be more misleading than helpful. I have found that these hygrometers, even the more expensive ones ($50 or higher), are in- accurate and unreliable and need frequent recalibration to be of any use at all. However, even if they were reliable, the differences among guitars caused by varying humidity conditions during assembly make it necessary to treat each guitar differently at a given objective humidity level.

 

Nowadays, I encourage guitarists to keep an eye on the guitar and the weather in deciding whether to take steps to control humidity. The best indicator on the guitar itself is the back. When humidity drops, guitar backs always tend to sink in, because of a shrinkage differential between the back wood and the braces. Conversely, backs develop arch when humidity rises. If a back becomes dead flat, you should be introducing some moisture or storing the instrument in a place where humidity is higher. If the back develops a con- cave dish, you should be adding moisture more aggressively. On the other hand, if a back shows an unusually high dome, you should try to get the instrument into a dryer place.

 

You should be alert to low humidity conditions whenever winter weather keeps the temperature below freezing all day. If the daily temperature range is 10 to 25 degrees, you should add a little moisture to the guitar's environment. If the range is as low as minus 15 to 10 above, you should take decisive action to introduce lots of moisture if you hope to avoid tonewood cracks or other structural problems. However, the temperature conditions which point to a need for more moisture will vary from guitar to guitar, because of differences in humidity conditions at the time when the guitar's body was assembled. This is why you need to keep an eye on the guitar, especially the back, as well as on the weather.

 

Particularly in winter, a guitar should be stored in its case, far away from any heat source, not on a stand or hanging on a wall. The case should be kept on the floor, because indoor air in winter is quite a bit cooler (and the humidity is therefore higher) in that area of the room than closer to the ceiling. One of the best ways to raise the humidity in winter is simply to keep the room temperature lower. A drop in inside temperature of only five degrees, from 70 to 65 for in- stance, can sometimes raise the humidity as much as 10%.

 

During periods when humidity is very high, the best remedy is to keep the guitar in an air-conditioned area; air conditioning dehumidifies the air in addition to cooling it, usually to a level of 50 to 55%, depending on outside humidity. If it is not hot enough outside for air conditioning (during a rainy spring, for instance), you should try to keep the guitar in a relatively warm area, avoiding places like cool basements. It may be advisable at such times to keep the guitar in a room with a condenser-type dehumidifier, especially if the instrument is being stored in an area like a basement recreation room. A dehumidifier can maintain a humidity level of 55 to 60%, which is an acceptable level for storing almost any guitar.

 

There are several devices available to cope with excessive dryness. If low humidity in your area occurs only in cold weather, a good quality furnace-mounted humidifier is most effective and hassle-free. Belt-type console humidifiers are also effective humidity sources for any season in limited spaces. Another remedy for low humidity is a "Dampit," a device which can be placed inside a guitar to release moisture directly in- side the instrument. You can also place a plastic canister containing a damp sponge inside the instrument case. These devices are particularly useful when travelling. However, during the times when added moisture is essential (severe winter cold snaps), they need .re-wetting at least once a day.

 

Protecting a valuable guitar from humidity extremes, if approached intelligently, can be done with minimal inconvenience. It also makes good economic sense. The most expensive of the remedies suggested above may end up costing considerably less than the expense that can result from neglect, especially if there is a permanent loss of instrument value because of environmental damage.

 

(This article first appeared in Guitar Review, Summer 1988.)

[avidkut]

 

BTW' date=' mine came with a humidifier. I appreciate it, I live in the desert!!!

[/quote']

 

The one's I saw at Manny's also came with humidifiers.

 

Since they don't always pair them up with their hygrometer cases anymore I would also recommend putting a hygrometer in the case.

[Ship of fools]

When you consider how many of them have been sold you are bound to get a few that have problems, that doesn't mean that all of them are going to be systematic with problems, even though the one I gave away had problems the other that I gave away is playing and acting like it should. Personally I think you made a great choice and as all makers of guitars will tell you sometimes crap just happens to good people and you shouldn't respond to a few misfortunes.

Not sure what the humidity is like in England, but I can tell you where I live we rarely worry about humidity problems and I have never had to use a humidifier in my home and we work about 40-65 percent humidity and all of my guitars for over 40 years are doing great and have never had a crack, so if you are diligent about taking good care of your guit, you'll be fine and enjoy many years of great playing with your Masterbilt and play some great music and don't sweat the small stuff and enjoy her and make some noise.Ship of Fools

[jwalin]

I've got the EF500R and the case has a built in hygrometer. It is completely useless. I have tested it and the needle never moves. I would not trust it at all.

 

Get a humidifier and a digital hygrometer and all should be OK as far as humidity is concerned.

 

Jeff

[avidkut]

When you consider how many of them have been sold you are bound to get a few that have problems' date=' that doesn't mean that all of them are going to be systematic with problems, even though the one I gave away had problems the other that I gave away is playing and acting like it should. Personally I think you made a great choice and as all makers of guitars will tell you sometimes crap just happens to good people and you shouldn't respond to a few misfortunes.

Not sure what the humidity is like in England, but I can tell you where I live we rarely worry about humidity problems and I have never had to use a humidifier in my home and we work about 40-65 percent humidity and all of my guitars for over 40 years are doing great and have never had a crack, so if you are diligent about taking good care of your guit, you'll be fine and enjoy many years of great playing with your Masterbilt and play some great music and don't sweat the small stuff and enjoy her and make some noise.Ship of Fools[/quote']

 

If it counts for anything my DR-500M is one of the one's with the crack and I still decided to go with a 2nd Masterbilt (an EF-500M).

 

I guess the crack could have been faulty craftsmanship but I'm thinking I just should have filled the humidifier more often. If I had a hygrometer I would have had a better idea of the humidity level (and now that I think about I did recently move into a new apartment that seems a lot warmer/drier than my old one.)

 

I like to think of the glass half-full, as in "at least it wasn't a crack on my much-more expensive Ramirez", which is part of the point of Epiphones IMHO. You play them and enjoy them without worrying about little things that would devalue an "investment" guitar.

 

The DR-500M still sounds great and I will attempt to get the repair taken care of this week so it doesn't spread.

 

Look, I bought the Epiphone to play not admire from afar (although they do look really nice I have to say) so as long as it doesn't affect the sound or structural integrity then I'm good.

[MSwickard]

I've got the EF500R and the case has a built in hygrometer. It is completely useless. I have tested it and the needle never moves. I would not trust it at all.

 

Get a humidifier and a digital hygrometer and all should be OK as far as humidity is concerned.

 

Jeff

 

The Hygrometer in my case is toast also. I have now placed a digitial thermometer/humidity meter in mine.

My DR-500 P also has a crack, but sounds great. For me this guitar is a player.

 

Mike

[byrds1965]

Hi there. As mentioned a few times I'm awaiting a Masterbilt to reach London' date=' UK. But is it really the right guitar. Its the sound and price tag that are attracting me, but if ( as posted on here) more than a few are cracking, are they really worth it.

I mean this forum does not have every masterbilt owner on it yet there seem to be a significant number of casualties - do guitars that are not holding up warrant the praise?

 

anyone?[/quote']

 

The Masterbuilts sound good that is a fact.

 

Some of them develop issuse as the wood cures/ages that is also a fact.

 

Mine was kept at 40-50% humidity and I have a digital guage in my guitar room so I know that as fact.

 

If you buy one to play and don't mind a surprise in the future, cracks, bridge lifts, etc take a chance.

 

There are also many other solid wood guitars out there in the same price range that don't seem to have the same issues. The Guild GAD series in the same price range comes to mind. MIC but excellent build quality and QC. I had a GAD 50 and sold it when I bought my first Masterbuilt, my DR500M.

 

I know the person I sold it to and it is still in mint condition and tone 5 years on now.

 

Play as many as you can find. The internet is a wonderful thing now days as you can look up the models in question and get answers to questions like these. When you know what you want then play them all and find the one you love as acoustics vary more than electrics.

 

I would even play ones you would not think about. I have grabbed a few AJ200S' recently and some sound like much more than the price would lead on.

[sangemon1281734057]

I've had my AJ-500M for close to year now, through 3.5 seasons. I kept it properly humidified during the winter when the heat was on, I play it regularly, and it sounds better every time I play it.

 

It has developed no issues at all. Smells good too. I love it.

 

So there you go,

[Svet]

I've got the EF500R and the case has a built in hygrometer. It is completely useless. I have tested it and the needle never moves. I would not trust it at all.

 

Get a humidifier and a digital hygrometer and all should be OK as far as humidity is concerned.

 

Jeff

 

I have to agree with Jeff on this one. I have three of these hygrometer cases from Epiphone, (AJ 500r, DR 500ra and the ukulele) and none of them actually work. My guitars are kept in their cases year round and I have a storage room the is climate controlled. In the drier times of the year I use a console type humidifier and in the summer I use the Central AC and/or a dehumidifier. I try to maintain a 70 degree 50% humidity level. I also use the in the hole planet waves humidifying devices as well.

SVet

[jwalin]

I also use the Planet Waves tube like thingy for humidificationality. I created that word. It goes up to eleven.

 

I have a question for some of you AJ-500M owners. I was at Guitar Denter (not my word) a few days ago and saw a Masterbuilt with the satin finish everywhere but the top...IT WAS GLOSS! Is this normal? It sounded great, but needed a setup badly. One of those 'knowlegable' sales people adjusted fret buzz right into the neck.

 

I will second that the AJ-200S is a shockingly great sounding $200 guitar. I just bought one, it is made in Indonesia. I plan on using this as a gigging instrument, and am trying to decide whether to put a B-Band or a LR Baggs system in it. I will also try and Earvana nut and saddle....

 

Jeff

[byrds1965]

I also use the Planet Waves tube like thingy for humidificationality. I created that word. It goes up to eleven.

 

I have a question for some of you AJ-500M owners. I was at Guitar Denter (not my word) a few days ago and saw a Masterbuilt with the satin finish everywhere but the top...IT WAS GLOSS! Is this normal? It sounded great' date=' but needed a setup badly. One of those 'knowlegable' sales people adjusted fret buzz right into the neck.

 

I will second that the AJ-200S is a shockingly great sounding $200 guitar. I just bought one, it is made in Indonesia. I plan on using this as a gigging instrument, and am trying to decide whether to put a B-Band or a LR Baggs system in it. I will also try and Earvana nut and saddle....

 

Jeff

 

[/quote']

 

The ones with the Gloss tops are the most recent models. They have the DRs with the Gloss tops also.

 

My AJ500M burst was done, the whole thing, when under repair. The dull satin finsh gave no clue to the real beauty underneath once buffed out.

 

I agree on the AJ200S'. I have pick them up now and then when I'm at GC. Some are just ok then there are ones that are really something.

[Axe2Grind123]

 

The one's I saw at Manny's also came with humidifiers.

 

Since they don't always pair them up with their hygrometer cases anymore I would also recommend putting a hygrometer in the case.

 

Hey avid, I'm close to NYC, do you know if 48th street moved, or are they just done?

[Vic Flick]

 

Hey avid' date=' I'm close to NYC, do you know if 48th street moved, or are they just done?[/quote']

 

Here's an article about Manny's:

 

New York, NY (March 11, 2009) -- An era that spanned nearly 75 years will come to an end this spring when Manny’s Music closes its doors for the last time. The legendary guitar store that served everyone from Hendrix and the Beatles to Clapton and U2 is set to close in May.

 

Located on New York City’s Music Row, West 48th Street Manny’s opened in 1935 and has seen countless stars. The store’s walls are a testament to its history—they’re covered in framed, autographed glossies of the patrons who have passed through the doors.

 

Other stores on Music Row are feeling the squeeze as well, and some worry that it’s only a matter of time until the entire neighborhood is gone. In a March 2008 article in The Real Deal, a New York real estate magazine, Sam Ash President Paul Ash and Manny’s grandson Ian Goldrich both commented on the Rockefeller Group’s push to purchase the surrounding property. The Goldrich family still owns the building Manny’s is located in. “I get at least a call a day from someone who wants to buy the building,” Goldrich told The Real Deal.

 

The store was purchased by Sam Ash in 1999. Ash told Premier Guitar in June 2008 that the company purchased the store because it was having troubles, and they believed it was an institution that should be maintained. Manny’s grandson, Ian Goldrich, continued to run the store after Sam Ash’s purchase. Neither Ash nor Goldrich could be reached for comment.

[avidkut]

 

Hey avid' date=' I'm close to NYC, do you know if 48th street moved, or are they just done?[/quote']

 

What's interesting is when I was in there it was business-as-usual. There wasn't any talk about closing or moving, and comments made in passing (re: upcoming inventory, etc.) made it seem like they plan to be around a while.

[Vic Flick]

 

What's interesting is when I was in there it was business-as-usual. There wasn't any talk about closing or moving' date=' and comments made in passing (re: upcoming inventory, etc.) made it seem like they plan to be around a while.[/quote']

 

We went to the City (Staten Island) last July to visit Mrs. Mac's family. Went to Manny's, they had a white Mosrite that caught my eye. Went back to the in-laws (or to be more precise the outlaws), checked my accounts on the computer, couldn't pull it off. It was towards the end of our vacation, and we had bled money. At that time, the salesman told me that Sam Ash had planned to close it, but that it would just become part of the Sam Ash store.

 

I know I've told this story before, but one day I stood next to Hendrix at the counter in Manny's. Another time, I was standing at the counter and Henry was on the phone taking a large order. Another salesman came up to him to ask a question, and Henry cupped the phone and told him he would be awhile, that it was Harrison on the phone.

 

That was the thing about Manny's, Henry took care of Harrison, Hendrix, you name it, but he also took care of me!!! And treated me like I was rock royalty instead of a 17 year old High School kid from Staten Island. OTH, Mandolin Bros. (another Harrison haunt) was about 10 minutes from my house and I only went there once in my life. They were so snobby, IMO.

 

There's a great book about Manny's called The Wall of Fame by Henry Goldrich. A lot of fond memories from my youth.

[Red 333]

 

That was the thing about Manny's' date=' Henry took care of Harrison, Hendrix, you name it, but he also took care of me!!! And treated me like I was rock royalty instead of a 17 year old High School kid from Staten Island. OTH, Mandolin Bros. [/quote']

 

Great story. It's a shame more stores like this are becoming a thing of the past.

 

Red 333

[avidkut]

 

Here's an article about Manny's:

 

New York' date=' NY (March 11, 2009) --

 

Other stores on Music Row are feeling the squeeze as well, and some worry that it’s only a matter of time until the entire neighborhood is gone. In a March 2008 article in The Real Deal, a New York real estate magazine, Sam Ash President Paul Ash and Manny’s grandson Ian Goldrich both commented on the Rockefeller Group’s push to purchase the surrounding property. The Goldrich family still owns the building Manny’s is located in. “I get at least a call a day from someone who wants to buy the building,” Goldrich told The Real Deal.

 

[/quote']

 

Here's what I don't get. On hand they say they're being "squeezed" but then they say the Goldrich family still owns the building. So who's squeezing whom?

 

I read another article quoting someone from Sam Ash saying that when Manny's lease is up the "landlord' won't be renewing it.

 

Did the Goldriches finally get an offer they can't (or won't) refuse? If so that's fine but then don't act like you're being forced to close the store when you've simply decided it's time to sell out.