building on the vjs popularity

[TWANG]

how about epi makes a couple of nice real tube efx pedals?

with modding in mind, would be even better.

 

or just decent analog stuff.. but again, with modding in mind.

It seems to me they should be able to sell aftermarket pcs swaps...

voice the things to the players taste..

 

I think at least three overdrive/dist pedals..

and a modulation master pedal.. moving toward chorus flange phase trem as the buyer

sees fit with the removeable pcb.. or some part of it.

 

Not a pedal builder but I'd bet some of you guys who've done pedals get the gist..

a chorus pedal, for example, that can be changed as to an iconic sound.. or two.

or move more toward a different effect parameter in some way.

 

and matching the vjr vsr so cal looks.

 

TWANG

[m-theory]

Oh man...does the world REALLY need more dirt boxes? I dunno. My guess would be that if they were to venture into this world, they'd probably work out a deal with behringer or some other puny-priced mass producer, to rebrand some, perhaps with very slight design changes to make them a little different. I seriously doubt they'd consider future modding, especially since the trend for cutting production costs is SMD components.

 

Here's a pretty cool modulated delay in DIY form:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=72527.0

 

And, this one goes a step beyond, by allowing you to write and share source code:

http://www.openstomp.com/

 

A bit off-topic, this is kind of a fun site to compare different boxes:

http://www.oldtonezone.com/distortionoverdrive-pedal-shootout/the-od-pedal-comparinator/

[scott58]

Yeah, there are alot of good pedals out there. I applaud these guys that

build them and DIY guys too. I'd rather deal with someone who does well out

of his garage then a corp/factory any day.

[twanger]

There's something similar to what you're talking about from the folks at Line 6 called the Tone Core. It's digitally based so I suppose they should've called it something like Tone Code. Here's the info: http://line6.com/tcddk/

 

the info, link and other interesting ideas and comments came from the Line 6 M13 Product Manager on this thread at HC:

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2302056&highlight=line+6

It's a long thread but I found it worth reading just to see what folks want in in a "Do ALL FX" box and what at least one company is willing/able to do towards that end.

[m-theory]

Yeeesh...I couldn't make it past the first page of infantile quips...now I remember why I quit frequenting that place!

 

Yeah, that sounds very similar to the coyote. I think it's a great idea, because it really sets free some creative minds that will undoubtedly come up with some rather remarkable possibilities in the future. I still say that analog is the best path for audio signal, but I can definitely see the potential for freeware DSP programming.

[TWANG]

The stuff like behringer and dano fab whatever.. I hope Epi would beat that.

And I was really thinking primariy tuned to their own amps.

For example, metal heads hesitate on the vj.. a pedal designed for getting it to that sound would probably be

marketable.

Or reverb pedal which.. if it could be done... was modded to work better in front.

and an actual tube in at least one pedal..

 

 

But everyone's comments seem pretty reasonable here. There sure are a lot of pedals.

 

TWANG

 

TWANG

[m-theory]

I don't argue your points, Twang, but I just don't know how viable this would be as a marketing position for this company at this point. With about a thousand different dirt boxes on the market at this point, what are they going to provide that's unique in any way, other than to have an Epiphone logo? That would get them a few sales, sure, but enough to support the marketing expenses? I don't know. How many non-Epiphone players are going to jump up and down about another dirt box, just because it says "Epiphone" on it, and how many Epiphone users don't know that other alternatives already exist?

 

There are reverb pedals that work great in front of an amp, btw, some that utilize an actual spring reverb tank. As for tube-driven pedals, it's also been done many times, and even though I recognize the marketing value of having such a product to offer, I personally don't see a whole lot that differentiates them from FET-based designs of late, but I do know that some people are easily swayed by a glowing tube, whether it's actually doing anything or not, and whether what it's doing can be done with transistors or not. The fact is, the magic is still in the output tubes (which cannot be duplicated with transistors at this point), regardless of how much hocus pocus hooey is laid out in marketing hype, but, quite simply, most people don't know that.

 

Bottom line, and to make a long response a bit longer, I don't disagree that offering pedals COULD be a valid offering for this company, but I just don't know how viable it would be. If they'd have started doing it 10 years ago or so, they'd have staked out a position already, but now they're just going to be another player in an already crowded yet narrow market.

[TWANG]

Well.. first off.. there are a lot of boxes because there are a lot of players.

some with no boxes at all.

I'd probably buy one, partly for the match of looks.

 

As to uniqueness, I think I mentioned that.. tuned to the vj.. and modifiable in some way.

 

I know some people slap a tube in and then just enough volts to light it.. and that certainly sucks.

I was just thinking about, for example, harder rock sounds.. dual preamp stages.. again.. tuned to the vj..

 

I'll bet we see more new products from many companys in this line.. and more new companys, too..

so why not Epi?

 

I like the company.. I'd be a customer again... and I'd like to see something that synched well with the vj.. that was either modifiable by company aftermarket parts.. or at least by having home modders in mind.. much like the vj itself.

It seemed to me that they could build on two things there.. the rep the vj earned, and the mod community at large.

 

C'mon .. I bet you'd like a tiny VJ shaped pedal.. eh? eh?

 

TWANG

[ssgfowler]

Twang,

This is kinda in the ballpark of your subject...

http://buildyourownclone.com/shredder.html

A dirtbox pedal you can build, experiment on, yada, yada, and it will turn your Vjr into a metalhead's dream.

I'm building one right now for my son's birthday present.

[m-theory]

Well.. first off.. there are a lot of boxes because there are a lot of players.

some with no boxes at all.

I'd probably buy one, partly for the match of looks.

Ok, so the fact that YOU would buy "one" is what you think would be a justifiable, viable marketing position for a company to launch an entirely new product line for? Why not just build something of your own, tweaked the way YOU want it to be tweaked, and painted or decaled with a photo or graphic of a Vjr or something?

 

As to uniqueness, I think I mentioned that.. tuned to the vj.. and modifiable in some way.

First of all, I think I already covered the "modifiable" part. The trend in cheap pedals is SMD construction, which equates to "forget about modding."

 

Secondly, how exactly is a specific pedal going to be "unique" simply because it's "voiced for Epiphone amps?" What you're proposing is nothing more than marketing BS, which can be published with or without viable substance to back it up. Why bother doing anything unique, when all they'd have to in order to sway their one customer would be to SAY that they had?

 

Aside from all of that, the way that amps AND pedals are used varies greatly, and the variance has a marked affect on the "effect."

 

And, a decision to market only to Epi owners effectively shoves the owners of hundreds of other different makes of amps out the door...doesn't really seem much like a viable marketing plan to me.

 

I know some people slap a tube in and then just enough volts to light it.. and that certainly sucks.

I was just thinking about, for example, harder rock sounds.. dual preamp stages.. again.. tuned to the vj..

Again, there's nothing all that unique to either. Not all starved-plate tube pedal-type devices necessarily suck either...the tube driver was and is a pretty well-thought distorto gadget.

 

How much mush does someone need in the front of an amp, anyway? The Vjr on its own is one of the mushiest tones I can imagine, and you want to add two more stages of mush? I don't know, man. Can't see a lot of appeal to that, personally.

 

I'll bet we see more new products from many companys in this line.. and more new companys, too..

so why not Epi?

I've already stated that I don't disagree with you that it MIGHT be a viable position for them. I just doubt that they'd bother with it at this point, that's all.

 

I like the company.. I'd be a customer again... and I'd like to see something that synched well with the vj

Maybe just a better designed vjr? How about a handwired version with real components with real component values? Offer an octal version as well.

 

C'mon .. I bet you'd like a tiny VJ shaped pedal.. eh? eh?

My Vjrs don't even look like Vjrs...

[TWANG]

Well. actually yes. The fact that I would buy one.. of course, I'm assuming I wouldn't be alone.

And so far, I've never been.

 

 

As for voicing it for an epi.. well, gosh.

I guess you could say it might be made specifically for the preamp and output tube type?

and I was talking about epi having their own. I see no reason not to.

And I doubt that epi is the only one with an el84.. and most people use 12ax7.. so I hardly see this as an

only for epis

pedal at all.

Also the whole idea was the pedal in front of the amp, since they have no loop, stock.

 

 

I guess I got the idea of a pedal in front from the gigillions of people using pedals in front.. for gain.

You know, just like everyone does.

dual preamp stages meaning.. the pedal and the amp.

But hey.. I understand there are amps out there with two. or three.. or more.

 

I use pedals in front of mine from time to time.. gain, and efx.. the pod. etc.

I'm sure many do.

 

I don't know their strategy. I'd just like an epi pedal(s).

 

yeah.. I'd like to see the valve sr.. has the vj with reverb shipped yet?

 

 

I still bet you'd try one. *g*

 

TWANG

[m-theory]

I still bet you'd try one. *g*

I've seen and built enough of the "magical, holy grail" designs to have become a bit bored with seeing how many ways the wheel can be reinvented. Virtually all non-fuzz dirt circuits are based on about 3 fundamental designs. The differences from there are, for the most part, merely minor tweaks to gain and tone. Same song, different tempo, basically. BUT, as you've illustrated, with the right marketing, it would sell to some.

 

The issue is, I believe, that the market is already flooded with pedals, especially at that low end, which is where a line by Epiphone would be aimed. Would they sell "some?" Sure. But, would it be significant enough to be worth the marketing money put into it? Let's face it, they're highly unlikely to become trend setters in this market. The company's strategy all along has been to follow, not lead, so they're not likely to draw in any significant base of new customers through it. They MIGHT make a tiny dent in other cheap pedal maker's sales, but they're not likely to be challenging Bill Finnegan by having the next "must have" pedal. It's just not where the company lives.

 

The only way, in my view, that it would make any sense at all for them, would be to simply rebrand an existing line. It's highly unlikely that you'd find anything truly unique or original in the line, BUT, like you point out, some would probably buy, just because they wanted an Epiphone pedal to match their Epiphone guitar and amp. I just personally don't see it as a huge gain for the company, as a whole. Not necessarily a loser, but not a flagship by any means, either.

[fenrirlupus]

how about epi makes a couple of nice real tube efx pedals?

with modding in mind' date=' would be even better.

 

or just decent analog stuff.. but again, with modding in mind.

It seems to me they should be able to sell aftermarket pcs swaps...

voice the things to the players taste..

 

I think at least three overdrive/dist pedals..

and a modulation master pedal.. moving toward chorus flange phase trem as the buyer

sees fit with the removeable pcb.. or some part of it.

 

Not a pedal builder but I'd bet some of you guys who've done pedals get the gist..

a chorus pedal, for example, that can be changed as to an iconic sound.. or two.

or move more toward a different effect parameter in some way.

 

and matching the vjr vsr so cal looks.

 

TWANG[/quote']

 

i think electro harmonix, behringer, and blackstar have that covered.

and what's best is the only one that really needs modding is the behringer, and it's cheapest :P (the VT 911 or the VT999... the 999 is more expensive, has more features, and is bigger... they both have bitmo mods available for them...)

the blackstar has this ISF thing that you can use to go between an american or a british sound... and it has a 3 band eq... i really don't see why i'd want to mod it at all, i just want a new 12ax7 for it...

 

i don't think matching the cabinetry is really that good of an idea. tolex pedals? or what else would you do, make them look like the firefly/triggerman channel footswitches? bad idea. we don't need at least three overdrive/dist pedals... and a modulation pedal... and chorus flange phase trem... just BUILD YOUR OWN... there's plenty of parts dealers out there, and you can paint it however you want... mod it however you want...

[TWANG]

I give.

 

TWANG

but I'd still buy one.

[Eracer_Team]

I have to agree with M.. Epiphone would make a deal with a cheap pedal company to produce another cheap box with an E on it

 

I wouldn't buy one for that, I'm not brand loyal, love what the VJ did for my understanding of tube amps.

[m-theory]

but I'd still buy one.

Ok. How much do you wanna spend and how would you like it voiced? I'll gladly paint an "E" on it for you!