antwhi2001 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Bought a 1997 F series (Fine Guitar Co, Korea) goldtop on e-bay recently, it tempted me because it had Gibson Deluxe tuners, Gibson pups and a brand new Gator hardcase with it, and I got it for £205. When it arrived I found it also had an aftermarket bridge and a graphite nut, and had been rewired. It was described as having dings etc, but turned out to be worse than I thought. Some of the dings have dings in them. Worse than that, the first 2 frets were badly worn and needed replacing. I had a go at filling some of the dings in but couldn't do much with them. I took the pups, which turned out to be Gibson ceramics, and put them on my brand new ltd edition Epi standard. Same with the graphite nut. Having decided that the resale value of the goldtop will be low if I'm honest about the condition, I decided to make a project of it. I actually have a brand new spare complete fretboard that was taken off a Plus Top with a neck break, so I'm going to swap the whole fretboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 From experience I know that amature spraying of metallic finishes rarely comes out well, so I'm not going to refinish it in gold. I decided to strip the back and see what the wood was like. I used an orbital sander to break through the poly, then hand-sanded. 90 minutes work got me this : Better than I expected, so I decided to go for the front.....so far, I've got: Unfortunately I went through a layer on the top corner by the selector switch. I'm now hand sanding the rest, and thinking about how to disguise that corner. Before any paint/lacquer went on someone had written "G T" in black felt pen in the bridge area. It's generally nicer than I expected. Until I've done the sides I'm not sure about the construction. The neck clearly isn't mahogany, and the back surface isn't. However, the darker bit I exposed on the front corner may be. The "cap" on the front over the darker wood is about 1/8" all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 what wood is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Gutsy attempt at stripping epoxy poly there. What colour where you planning on finishing the top in? If it's supposed to be a see through tint or clear, consider sealing the top first and then painting in a grain and wood colour on top of the exposed plys. You can handpaint the grain in with some acrylic paints (available at any artist store) for maple..the soft wood is a mixture of titanium white and raw sienna. To make a faint grain, add more raw sienna than white. If you are good with artist brushes, then you can achieve a "close" result to the actual wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custombuiltguitars Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 from the looks of things you have a maple neck, and a maple back. BUT seeing as you burned thru the top so easily, my guess from looking at the pics is you have a thin veneer top. I would really like to see pics of the sides when you are thru stripping them. The burn thru on the top to me anyway....looks as a burn thru to plywood. Leaves me wondering if the back is also a thin veneer. A few closeups of the cavity controls and the sides when you are done would help immensly to best guess the wood type/construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted March 3, 2010 Author Share Posted March 3, 2010 I plan to finish stripping it at the weekend, then I'll post more pics. The back isn't a veneer, I've taken at least 1/8" off because it was badly dented and scratched. I actually wondered whether it was going to be a solid agathis / maple / alder body, so I was disappointed when I went through the top. I'll follow your advice Carverman - thanks. I used to paint with acrylics when I was an art student. I'm not in a rush to finish this one. I'd like to go for a very light natural / honeyburst with cream plastics. I'd rather spray poly than nitro but I don't know if I'll be able to find a tinted poly. If I have to go nitro I'll need to buy tinted and clear, and that will push the cost up. I can get good nitro aerosols from a luthier who does mail order in the UK, but he charges £18 a can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 i had a thin veneer on my fake. is this a fake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 Get yourself a bookmatched flamed maple veneer on ebay, you can get them for £20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 how do you apply the veneer? does it need to be heat treated over a arch top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted March 4, 2010 Author Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm sure the guitar isn't a fake. In the past I've routed out 2 other Epi Lps for a 3rd pup, and in each case the "cap" was also only about 1/8" thick. Thicker than veneer, thinner than a Gibson maple cap which is at least 1/2" in the centre. One of those was a 2001 Korean Samick, the other a 2008 EE. Going by the wear and tear this is also clearly an old guitar and 1997 seems about right. The top frets were worn out and it was covered in dings; it had also been rewired, and by the looks of it not all at the same time. Most of the fakes you see in the UK are EEs from the last 2-3 years, this is much older. I don't want to try applying a veneer, I've done that before and found it very difficult to glue it in place. Too much glue, it distorts; not enough, and adhesion is patchy. I also managed to crack the veneer. I'm after a very pale natural finish anyway, and I'm nearly there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 You can buy iron on veneers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm surprised they applied a veneer under a solid colour finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 You can buy iron on veneers. That's perfect if you have a flat surface, but a carved guitartop is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 That's perfect if you have a flat surface' date=' but a carved guitartop is something else. [/quote'] For an arch top you have to heat up the surface a bit before carefully applying the veneer, then clamp it into place with lots of clamps after a couple of days you can remove the clamps and finish of the glueing with a hot iron. This info was given to me by a luthier on another forum as I am thinking of fitting a veneer to my J&D Bros LP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 if you ever get to try it, give us some pics! i wonder how the big guys do it on mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBooka Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 I'm sure the guitar isn't a fake. In the past I've routed out 2 other Epi Lps for a 3rd pup' date=' and in each case the "cap" was also only about 1/8" thick. Thicker than veneer, thinner than a Gibson maple cap which is at least 1/2" in the centre. One of those was a 2001 Korean Samick, the other a 2008 EE. [/quote'] Just for reference this is a 1992 Samick LP Std. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Just for reference this is a 1992 Samick LP Std. Wow, I must say, Epi advertises "Mahogany" bodies, but that sure doesn't look like the wood in the middle is mahogany! Wonder what the newer EE guitars are like??????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 That last pic shows a hog body under a 1/2" maple cap with a 1/16 inch flamed veneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 That last pic shows a hog body under a 1/2" maple cap with a 1/16 inch flamed veneer. You're right, but the first photo doesn't look quite right to me. BUT it may just be the maple cap. I'm NOT a woodgrain expert by any means! :- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamBooka Posted March 4, 2010 Share Posted March 4, 2010 Listen to me! (joke ;) There was a thread a while back that discussed LPs that had a veneer over the mahogany on the back. Mine doesnt. You can also clearly see that it is a 3 piece back (well if I had a pic you could clearly see it). I bought mine at the same time as a bud bought a studio and I didnt NOTICE a difference in the grain in the back.. just that his was one piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 in the 1st pics the stripey back is nice! but is it any darker in real life? i mean has the flash lightened the colour? i am used to african mahogany... i think it is a little darker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 in the 1st pics the stripey back is nice! but is it any darker in real life? i mean has the flash lightened the colour? i am used to african mahogany... i think it is a little darker? I think its a veneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Nazarenie Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 a maple veneer on the back? i'm confused. surely the goldtop has a see through finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
custombuiltguitars Posted March 5, 2010 Share Posted March 5, 2010 a maple veneer on the back? i'm confused. surely the goldtop has a see through finish? in the 1st few pics that color look opague. My 1st rule in buying used guitars. If it is a solid color, assume they are trying to hide the wood for a reason. If I can see woodgrain, there is at least a chance it is of higher quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antwhi2001 Posted March 5, 2010 Author Share Posted March 5, 2010 in the 1st pics the stripey back is nice! but is it any darker in real life? i mean has the flash lightened the colour? i am used to african mahogany... i think it is a little darker? If you mean my first pics, no, it really is light like ash/maple/alder. It was originally covered with an orangey/brown tinted lacquer as seen on the headstock pic. Under the tint was a seperate base coat in a neutral beige which covered the grain, front and back. Covered all the wood actually. I think it's got a covering sheet front and back of body, thicker than usual veneer, which is paper thin. On the top face, under the top sheet, is a "maple" cap which tapers to almost zero thickness at the edges. FWIW, the neck wood is softer than any maple I've sanded before. But of course it varies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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