Guitar make the Man?

[Rambler]

A useful dash of cold water from John M over on the Weenie Campbell Forum: "In recent years, I've seen an expansion of the notion that you need of a [certain type of guitar].. to get an authentic Country Blues sound. This.. idea that an authentic sound is something that can be purchased--not so! There is no arguing the fact that nice instruments are nicer than instruments that are not so nice. The simple fact, though, is that .. if you didn't listen to the music, get the sound of it in your head, practice like crazy, work on and think about the music all the time, that great guitar is not going to make you sound any more authentic than a junker would. Sounding authentic is not something an instrument does, it's something that a player does on an instrument."

 

He adds "If you have the disposable income [for] a really nice vintage or custom guitar, go for it! But if such instruments are beyond your means,[dont] believe that the lack of such an instrument has ever prevented someone from making authentic Country Blues". Or, authentic anything else.

 

Not the first time Ive hear such sentiments expressed,but he speaks eloquently to the point. Here's the link: http://weeniecampbell.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=60&topic=6852.msg54373;topicseen#msg54373

[Guth]

J,

 

I wanted to let you know that I really appreciated this post. A dose of such reality is a good thing in this day and age when we come up with terms like "Guitar Acquisition Syndrome". I think "IIS" or "Internet Influenced Spending" is far more appropriate (it doesn't happen with just guitars folks). Posts like yours help to keep things in check. Wonderful sentiments. An added bonus for me is being introduced to the Weenie Campbell site.

 

All the best,

Guth

[onewilyfool]

I tend to agree here, however........I can play "Love in Vain" by Robert Johnson, on three different guitars, and THE GUITAR will make me play it differently on each guitar. Pace, style, etc, all change a bit when I play it on different guitars. SO the the guitar DOES have some effect, but will not make you an instant "blues man"....

[Guth]

I tend to agree here, however........I can play "Love in Vain" by Robert Johnson, on three different guitars, and THE GUITAR will make me play it differently on each guitar. Pace, style, etc, all change a bit when I play it on different guitars. SO the the guitar DOES have some effect, but will not make you an instant "blues man"....

 

I totally understand this perspective as well, and you'll get no arguments from me regarding those observations.

 

However, I think that if you were to have three different guitarists repeat your experiment, you would find far more variation in the outcome of the performances between the individual guitarists than you would between the individual guitars which is more to the point of the original post.

 

I've seen people play some amazing country blues on guitars that I wouldn't have pictured in that role. Of course, the same applies for almost any genre of music.

 

All the best,

Guth

[zombywoof]

I don't know - I get a kick out of guys making what they proudly exclaim to be copies of some guitar that sold for like $9.00 in 1930s and charging you thousands of bucks for it.

 

On the other hand, this whole inverse chic thing brought about by the craze for "authentic" blues guitars has reaped some rewards. I have made some pretty good money over the past years selling old Kay Krafts, Stellas and what have you for a whole lot more than I paid for them back in the 1960s and 1970s when nobody had any use for them. So here is hoping that not too many folks read Weenie's blurb cuz I still got me a few of those old geetars I might want to sell someday.

 

Me, I just take whatever guitar to a gig I am in the mood to play that night. They all seem to work just fine when it comes to playing some Kid Bailey, Scrapper Blackwell or Bo Weevil Jackson.

[Rambler]

Those older blues guys were playing those ladder-braced models because they were the best the could get. Or resos, for street projection. Given the choice, they might have preferred a more refined sound. To that extent, the "inverse-chic" choice may be a search for an "authentic" tone that the originators may not have particularly cared for.

 

Btw, the point here is not that all guitars are created equal or that interest in vintage models is misguided (JM, for ex, plays a Martin Om reissue, a revival of a 30s design brought back by player demand). Its the idea that you need a particular piece to play a certain style. Or, worse, that having a particular piece gives you cred. You dont need a Martin HD28LSv.CW to play bluegrass (you main need one to please BG Nazis). Or, a Stella 12 string to play Blind Willie McTell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twYqYBiCDto.

[pschaafs]

The Man makes the Guitar... at any level of skill on any guitar.

[Guth]

The Man makes the Guitar... at any level of skill on any guitar.

 

For better or worse, this would seem to be the more appropriate logic.

 

All the best,

Guth

[fortyearspickn]

Really interesting insights! I agree that a dedicated player will make a cracker box guitar sound good. Look at pix of the really great guys back in the '30s and 40's who had pleny of time and an old guitar a pawn shop wouldn't even take in. On the other hand - I think a good player can get to a higher level of playing more quickly if, at a certain point in your development, you upgrade to a 'better for you' guitar. I agree 100% JKNMA that it is silly at best and pretentious at worst to tell yourself (or anyone else) that you have to have a specific type of guitar for each specific type of music. (Martin for Bluegrass!) I've heard many times, for example, you really can't finger pick on an SJ200, and found it to be completely untrue. The point that was being made was that you needed an SJ200 for strummin, and something else (J45?) for pickin. Fortunately, I don't have enough disposable income to be that gullible :) Thanks for this thread.

[vincentw]

you play the guitar you have, and you learn to make that guitar sound good. you can blame your bad tone and bad notes on your guitar all day long, but the truth is...you haven't learned how to make that guitar sound good, and that's all in your soul and fingers. there's too much choice in the world. accept what you have and learn to do something great with those tools. get new tools after you've worn out your old tools.

[zombywoof]

Those older blues guys were playing those ladder-braced models because they were the best the could get. Or resos, for street projection. Given the choice, they might have preferred a more refined sound. To that extent, the "inverse-chic" choice may be a search for an "authentic" tone that the originators may not have particularly cared for.

 

 

Maybe they just had better things to spend their money on.

[zombywoof]

Really interesting insights! I agree that a dedicated player will make a cracker box guitar sound good. Look at pix of the really great guys back in the '30s and 40's who had pleny of time and an old guitar a pawn shop wouldn't even take in.

 

Lots of truth in that.

 

But I am guessing you ain't played alot guitars made by Oscar Schmidt in the 1920s and 1930s. If you wanted one of Schmidt's big box Stella 12 string guitars like Leadbelly, Blind Willie McTell and Barbecue Bob played today you would have to fork over something in the neighborhood of $20,000.

[Rambler]

"Maybe they just had better things to spend their money on." A car, new suit, night on the town, definitely priorities. Im sure they wanted a piece that sounded good and played right, but right, it was a far cry form the attention we all lavish on it.

[clayville]

Though "The Man makes the guitar" pretty much sums up how I feel about it now, I wouldn't be so hasty to discount the notion that "The Guitar makes the man" in some important sense too.

 

I'm thinking here mostly about the phenomenal and ongoing bouts of inspiration and dedication-to-improve that I've experienced since upgrading to a J-100 Extra in 1998 and a CS-356 in 2003. Every time I open the cases I'm inspired to be worthy when I strap one of them on, and for that I'm deeply grateful. It's like a pact with the builders, who I imagine had someone like me in mind when they were building it: someone ready to be inspired. Good guitars flogged me into improving my chops substantially. When I had mediocre guitars, I was a mediocre player... and now that I have great guitars, I'm... a better one. They made me, while I continue to make them.

[fortyearspickn]

Clayville, I agree - obviously, you said it much better than I did. When the man and guitar become one - all things are possible.

[dhanners623]

I've seen way too many great players wring great music from supposedly "crap" guitars. A good guitarist will know how to work with what he/she has.

 

Of course the converse to this is that I've seen plenty of so-so guitarists make so-so music with really wonderful instruments. Some people have more disposable income than talent. It'll always be that way. I remember years ago, when I lived in Texas, I was interviewing one of the gubernatorial candidates (I won't name names) who was well-to-do and played guitar. I asked him what he played and he said, "A Martin." So I said, "What kind?" and he replied, "A Martin," as if I hadn't heard him the first time.

 

So then I asked, "What model?"

 

"I dunno," he said. "I just went down to the local guitar shop and got me a Martin."

 

It made me think of the first Martin I ever owned (a late '60s D-35S; wish I still had it) and before I bought it, I knew its history, how many D-35S guitars Martin made that year, etc. But it struck me that if you're filthy rich, you can walk into a guitar shop and say, "Gimme a Martin" and you don't have to worry about how much it costs.

 

The candidate wasn't much of a player. He didn't win, but not because of that.