How things develope

[E-minor7]

Vilyfool - You bring up a big question. Vilyfool - The question might be of some importance. Vilyfool - It's may not be the most original question in this world. Vilyfool - That could be a good thing as some people therefor have their reactions in stock allready. Here's a humble attempt : If we go back 4 decades, there sure was a lot of extraordinary music and musicians. Joni M. is right, and yes, Janis J. was definitely one of them. However, if we rewind, it must also be remembered how the first-60'ties groups were recieved by a lot of people, just a bit older than teenagers. Many of them - already established in jazz or folk music - found the new pop-bands simple and cheesy, , , too lousy playing.

Beatles did almost okay, Stones were fighting with it, Byrds used hired cats like The Monkees ! ! , , and Dylan as other solo artist, enjoyed the possibility to pick the best from here and there (even The Hawks/The Band were struggling to get that rock-circle together). Soon after, circa 65, bands with real good players like The Who, Yardbirds etc, appeared, and only little by little, with the help of improved lyrics, the jazz-snobs, beatnicks and folkies began to accept. As well known, things grew fast and developed very steep during the later half towards 1970. An explosion was happening and not least the guitarists were blazing like dragons, when suddenly Hendrix and Santana paralyzed them all, setting everything in new perspective. In reality some kind of race was raging - as if the drive of competition had been laid in the DNA of that generation long before they found out to rebel against everything that same drive represented. (A paradox rather hard for themselves to X-ray, which in the end might have resulted in all that fantastic music).

I read a contemporary review of Alvin Lee's/Ten Years After's classic performance at Woodstock some time ago, and the critic knocked him for being too egocentric and and old-school macho. Such an opinion/kind of intellect would have been the exception - everybody else loved it, , , even sage J. Garcia - though knowing the difference between deep and fast – probably would have smiled happily, had he been listening from the wing.

In many ways the race for faster, better, louder, bigger went on deep into the 70'ties. Walls of amps like buildings, larger drum-kits maybe two at the same time, lights, stages, halls, arenas, stadiums, and f.x. prestige in mountains of studio-hours or cooperating with classical ensembles seemed to define the game. If we concentrate on the guitarists, extreme players like Mclaughlin, Coryell, Al Di Meola and Metheny - heaven bless them - entered the film.

I'm not sure if people of today know or are aware of this scenery, and many of those who were there may have forgotten. (A reminder could be needed).

Anyway – as we approached the 80'ties, 2 things changed the course of the highway. One was punk, second was the increasing possibility to make music by machinery. The first didn't give a damn – the other made it kind of absurd to spend a whole youth trying to achieve monstrous skills if the same level could be reached by pushing a button. Something was happening and we wondered what it was. Ugly became cute – bad was now best. Waves of totally banal bands over-floated shops and venues. Of course there were good ones too, but it was as if it didn't matter. It simply wasn't the clue. A whole new society of youngsters embraced this revolt as a liberation. Dylan had seen it comin' on the opening track of Street Legal from 78 - the rest of us turned around the bend, and woke up in another world. My friend who had been dreaming of conquering the B-3 organ with Lesley, now drowning in tiny plastic synths, packed his things and moved to Brazil. Things had fundamentally changed and it meant heavy weather - Some of the mighty icons didn't make it. They walked out like old elephants. The proudest went straight under. Others tried to adapt by cutting their hair with scissors of techno or overdistorted guitars. Former champs, great acts and founders of modern music released absolutely confused records. Two of my heroes went each their way. David Crosby hated the new scene and found it false and hollow. It betrayed everything he praised and stood for, and left him no path to follow. His good pal Neil Young thought twice and asked himself if 'playing crazy, untamed electric instruments in a boiling garage' wasn't the original idea of rock'n'roll music. Reality answered, yes. My heart and soul went with the Croz – my brains had to stick with Neil.

I guess you older guys and girls have versions of this 'Big Shift of Paradigm' too – and why not deliver your story. Does anyone f.x. recall the first time they heard Pistols or Laurie Andersons. . . “Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah Ah ~ Oh Superman”. (Sure wasn't much wooden Gibson there) - C'mon let's hear how it went down in your boots.

Finally I'd like to deliver the following : A while ago one of the old bigband leaders of this country was interviewed on television. At some point he had a chance to speak about Lennon/McCartney and revealed how he didn't give much. “They were nothing compared to G.Miller, D. Ellington and C. Basie”, he said without complications. Funny to see the reaction of some of the younger band-members in the background as the camera zoomed in. (Faces attacked by uncontrollable tics)

Well, he could be right with one pair of glasses over his nose – and he definitely would be wrong if he took them off. Guess he didn't know apples form pears.

 

As for this Gaga-person. Could somebody please recommend a worthy track from the Tube.

 

And then let us not be too afraid of loosing the real talent out there vilyfool. Just look at the 'Great Morning Pickers' from some threads back. As long as they keep doin' it, there will be hope.

 

 

 

[zombywoof]

I was around through all of this and do not have a clue what you are talking about. Trying to explain the "good old days" to someone who was not there usually turns out to be about as fruitful as a bunch of academics trying to organize a water balloon fight. Basically though there is pre- and post-Beatles. They showed up and it was a whole new ball game. Acoustics were stashed under beds and we sat there each day hoping this would be the day the mailman brought the new Sears catalog with its pages full of those wonderous electrics. The more pickups the better the guitar. Well, it made sense at the time.

 

Just as many had backed into Woody through Dylan - folks now backed into Chuck Berry though the Beatles and the Stones. Then they backed into Robert Johnson after Clapton layed down what is arguably the best blues rock solo of all time on "Crossroads." We were a generation of musical backer uppers.

 

In guitar land - speed became the most sought after virtue in a guitar player. But if you got too far out there, you could still see guys like Albert King who remained living proof that you could write a whole volume with just four notes and suck the air out of the room with one deep bend.

 

Punk - who cared. The Fugs, MC5 and Iggy had done it earlier and better.

 

I would go on but crap, I lost my train of thought. . .

[jannusguy2]

I was around through all of this and do not have a clue what you are talking about. Trying to explain the "good old days" to someone who was not there usually turns out to be about as fruitful as a bunch of academics trying to organize a water balloon fight. Basically though there is pre- and post-Beatles. They showed up and it was a whole new ball game. Acoustics were stashed under beds and we sat there each day hoping this would be the day the mailman brought the new Sears catalog with its pages full of those wonderous electrics. The more pickups the better the guitar. Well, it made sense at the time.

 

Just as many had backed into Woody through Dylan - folks now backed into Chuck Berry though the Beatles and the Stones. Then they backed into Robert Johnson after Clapton layed down what is arguably the best blues rock solo of all time on "Crossroads." We were a generation of musical backer uppers.

 

In guitar land - speed became the most sought after virtue in a guitar player. But if you got too far out there, you could still see guys like Albert King who remained living proof that you could write a whole volume with just four notes and suck the air out of the room with one deep bend.

 

Punk - who cared. The Fugs, MC5 and Iggy had done it earlier and better.

 

I would go on but crap, I lost my train of thought. . .

Very well stated.

[bkharmony]

We need more threads like this.

[albertjohn]

Laurie Anderson - Oh Superman. I had to stop what I was doing and listen in silence when I first heard that on the radio. Genius!

[Rambler]

The thing about the sixties as a 'golden age' of rock is.. it din't rock. A lot of music for listnin', not shakin'.

 

When the Fabs hit, A&R guys went nuts & signed anybody with a guitar. Voila, the folkie-crossover: his Bob-ness goes electric, The Fabs ape Bob. Wordsmiths. The search for guitar bands also churned up a Clapton or two = heavy guitar. Hendrix mixed heavy guitar with Dylanisms =another heady hybrid. The Fillmore scene re-created live performance as a listening experience. Stoner metal was just a kiss away. Other rockers moved up the country (or out to Marin)= the CSNY/Band syndrome. Not to say some of it wasn't fabulous. Just that shaking booty took a back seat for a while.

 

Punk and disco were the inevitable rebellion vs the heady excesses.

 

And when the knob-twiddling got to be a bit much, raw guitar sounds made a comeback. Nirvana for the young, roots rock + Blues for us elders (Bruce the Boss is an interesting case: roots-rock head music. Disagree? Try dancing to Rosalita). Anyway, there is a place for both, head and social music. So maybe keep in mind the next time a dance trend engenders thoughts of "the end of the world as we know it" it may be time to hit default reset. And boogie.

[zombywoof]

The 1960s may have been the only time you could put 3 1/2 minutes of dead air space on an LP, title it "WWIII" and not only would it count as a song but be applauded as an artistic creation.

 

For me the disco killer was not the Boss (although I love his acoustic work and think "Nebraska" remains one of the best LPs of all time) but the British pub rockers - guys like Graham Parker, Elvis Costello, Brinzley Swartz, and Nick Lowe. A sweet combination of well crafted pop songs and full tilt three chord and cloud of dust rock & roll. all laced with enough venom to make it subversive enough to hook me.

 

On the other side of the coin, guys like David Bromberg seemed to almost re-invent the acoustic guitar. Dave Edmunds, who was always out there somewhere in the background, came roaring to the forefront with his Gibson dot neck 335, ability to capture the Wall of Sound, and enough rockabilly licks to add a whole new twist to the game while bands like the Del Fuegos and Plimsouls re-invented pop adding the word power to it.

[E-minor7]

When the Fabs hit, A&R guys went nuts & signed anybody with a guitar. Voila, the folkie-crossover: his Bob-ness goes electric, The Fabs ape Bob. Wordsmiths.

 

 

This makes a great clue and it would be a shame not to be aware. The point in time when the force of the snappy, happy go lucky, careless, still unconsciously diffuse rebelling, big-striped T-shirt, bubblegum people fusioned with the more intellectual guard of jazz, folk, poetry, politics and art. It was the nitro meets glycerine moment of post-war culture and the explosion rings on up to our day and age - probably will forever. Must have been around 65 and the vibration - often in the form of distorted radio waves - reached even the smallest village on the Western hemisphere. Soon the youngsters listened in Eastern Europe too (they f.x. managed to burn rock-singles down unto x-ray film, stolen from hospital shelves and stocks).

 

Some of the best examples of the Big Beat Bang would be :

 

Bob Dylan - Subterranean Homesick Blues (goin' half electric) and Highway 61 (the el-step taken all the way).

 

The difference between the 2 Beatles albums Help ! and Rubber Soul (European versions) - and why not include the crazy and untamed Help !- movie as well. Though silly, it defined a brand new kind of weightless 'reality' totally unknown to the 50'ties frame of mind.

 

Rolling Stones undisguised sex-oooze in the anti-commercialism-attack of number 1 hit Satisfaction. Jagger turning into some gestalt this world had never seen before (apart maybe from some Russian ballet-dancers, as Marianne Faithfull once stated).

 

The Irish band Them, releasing the debut album called Angry Young Men.

 

The Who stamming their way through My Generation (can things get more serious).

 

Donovan covering the tones and philosophy of Buffy Sainte-Maries Universal Soldier.

 

Simon and Garfunkel hitting the charts with quiet protest Sound of Silence.

 

And The Byrds flying swiftly though their first 2 LP's, Mr. Tambourine Man and Turn Turn Turn.

 

Much more could be added to this list, but I fired from the top of the head.

 

Now, there's nothing new to this, I admit. Some of you might ask, 'Why bring it up - what do I care, it's all past', - the good zomby might grow long balls 'bout me trying to set up another 'water-balloon-party'.

 

All I can say is, 'Let's not overlook the reason we sit by this table, is the 4 legs of the chair' – (at least we owe that to the carpenter).

 

And then let us neither forget to remember the ever present Gibson-factor. Because this brand indeed was a part of the scenery. When I look at my 68 SJ, I can't help thinking how it could have played a role in the, so crucial theater back then - and maybe it did, who knows. Maybe Mike Bloomfield, John B. Sebastian or Joan Baez once took it from the wall in a shop, strummed a few chords, then thought, 'Well, well - nice finish, tremendous neck, okay tone, , , but it just doesn't project enough.'

[DanvillRob]

Man... why does reading all this make my head hurt?

 

Is it possible to over-analyze something?

 

Dylan goes electric.... okay with me.

Jimi sets his Strat on fire.... okay with me.

John Sebastian wears a wide horizontal striped Tee Shirt....okay with me.

Janice drinks Southern Comfort on stage....okay with me.

[E-minor7]

Yeah you're right - It just happens to be the favorite period of mine. Guess I'm too exited (and thick) to keep quiet.

Best to you brother. -

 

 

(D'you 'ave any gum ?)

[DanvillRob]

Yeah you're right - It just happens to be the favorite period of mine. Guess I'm too exited (and thick) to keep quiet.

Best to you brother. -

 

 

(D'you 'ave any gum ?)

 

Were you around during that time? I played with most of the groups during that period and have some personal insite.

 

Unfortunately, because I was so close to it, I didn't bother to appreciate being around some of the greats.

 

As the old saying goes, "Those who remember the 60's didn't adequately partake!"

[E-minor7]

Well, though only a kid, I started rockin' around 65. Got my first Beatles, Stones, Kinks singles then and soon walked down to the cornershop for the mono LP version of Help ! (which I still have). Saw the film a few weeks after it opened over here - and by the way - clearly remember my favorite Ringos wedding, he, he, he.

 

Been following things from first row til long up in my later years and keep enjoying the music, footage and myths from back then. Not that the 80'ties and 90'ties didn't provide good stuff, I just love the whole aura of the early tale. Call it the golden age or the chapter after 50'ties rock'n'roll, if you want.

Know a few people who actually were teenagers or slightly older at the time, and always like to hear an anecdote or two. Especially from people in Britain orthe States where so much fantastic rock - folk - folk-rock -psychedelia - roots-music, whatever, was founded and passed on. I f.x. find it extremely interesting that zombywoof saw Joni Mitchell (twice) just as her star began to rise. To me it would be comparable to an architect watching a little film of G. Eiffel sketching the first lines of his iron tower.

 

And zombywoof points out another interesting thing when he talks about the chance of looking back on Guthrie via Dylan, on Berry from Beatles/Stones and Johnson from Clapton. That's one more intriguing aspect of the period. First people stormed forward into the unknown territories of electric/acoustic music, mind-scapes and life-styles – then around 68/69, with albums like Big Pink, Sweetheart of the Rodeo and Nashville Skyline, it became necessary, hip and just as tempting to turn around and face the roots from where everything sourced. As you know, this thing happened in Europe too and continued well up in the first half of the 70'ties. During those years everything from Bach to Latin suddenly found it's way inside modern music – okay trailblazing Jethro Tull and Procol Harum might have been the first - but had it not been for acts like Bowie and Roxy Music, the entire. .. . .

 

 

 

 

Oooh no, there I go'water-balloon-partying' again, , , (me fool for romance) another headache, toothpains etc. must be avoided – Full Stop, , , , , , , and then further -

[DanvillRob]

I graduated High School in 1967, (aka "The Summer Of Love"), so I did get to see some stuff up close and personal.

 

I remember seeing the Stones at the San Jose Civic Auditorium, it was probably winter of 1965. When my son graduated college a few years ago, the graduation ceremony was held there. I was surprised at how small it was There couldn't have been more than 3500 seats! I remember sitting in a folding chair down on the floor, maybe 7-8 rows from the stage. I saw the Stones the next year, in the Summer I think, (with the Jefferson Airplane & Joan Baez), in which there were about 15,000 people!

Would be hard to find a venue where you could see The Stones where there was only 3500 people!