TommyK Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 I have one of those ubiquitous electronic key fobs for my van that locks and unlocks, starts the motor and honks the horn in an emergency and opens the one sliding door. It is only partially functioning. While I am a bit of a Luddite, and don't mind puting a key in my lock the powers that be at GM have decided that since you have a key fob door unlocker, you don't need but one key hole, which is generally on the wrong side of the van from which I need the convenience of modern elecronics. A new fob is $160.00. My wife's is hinky as well. Two of the silicone buttons do not work; the un-lock and side door opener. The others work fine. Of course the un-lock button is one that doesn't work. I've cleaned the contacts to no avail. I can make the unlocker work by shorting across the metal contacts on the circuit board with a metal object. This tells me that the black (probably carboniferous or ferric material) black button on the back of the silicone monolith is not completing the circuit. Is it possible the carbon or ferrous material has worn off? It looks good. I've cleaned all contacts with alcohol, both on the circuit board and the black buttons. I've even burnished them a bit with a rubber eraser to brighten up the metal contacts and black buttons. I really LOATHE spending over $300 for new key fobs. Actually, nearer to $500, as we have a back-up we got when we bought the van new, which was used to replace my wife's when her first one went bad. If It comes to that, I will retro-fit new locks on at least 2 of the remaining doors (passenger and rear gate). Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Owl Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 Make it known to GM, they can't afford the bad P.R and might do something for you. I usually start with the source and work out from there. If that doesn't work ask a mechanic if he knows a quick fix, and if he does buy him lunch. Cheers, Brandon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 My son has had some success, ableit with toys but..., with taking some thin wire and attaching it to the contacts on the board. He wraps the ends in electrical tape to keep them separated, but allowing them to be squeezed together to activate the circuit. Alternatively, could you line the button with tinfoil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverside Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 You can sometimes find them on eBay. http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3984.m570.l1311&_nkw=gm+key+fob&_sacat=See-All-Categories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share Posted November 29, 2010 Yup, the keys are, at last quote, $35.00 to replace. And... they are fragile. Back in the olden days (2006) when I'd turn the car off I had a habit, I guess, of pulling on the key fob to remove the key from the ignition. Never had a problem. After 3 months of pulling my key out of my new car's ignition, the bit of plastic at the pommel of the key broke off! The old car key looks identical, but inside that bit of plastic is a continuation of the brass that makes the key. Now I have to be sure to pull only on the key to remove it from the ignition. Yup, I suspect that saved Government Motors a shopping 2¢/ key. I did get a good deal on a set of keys though. The car had two keys and fobs with it when we bought it. My wife wanted a third set to store away in the event we (she) lost one set. I asked for an additional key, as I keep a key to all my cars and my house in my wallet, for when we, (I) lock myself out. I was willing to pay for the extras. When we took delivery, the salesman said, "No Charge." I guess I got the good guy discount. Maybe it was because we were a second time Saturn buyer. Down side is, we had to have the engine management system reprogrammed to change the start up protocols as we were having a start up protocol problem (too complex to go into here). This had the effect of rebooting and changing the identification of the key recognition. We had to round up all the keys to get them all re-programmed at the same time. I don't know if we'll have to do this again if we ever have to replace a key or fob. I'm liking the small bit of tin foil idea. Super glue ought to hold it once it is flattened. Maybe a gum wrapper foil with the paper backing removed. This would yield some mighty thin foil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevef Posted November 29, 2010 Share Posted November 29, 2010 You could check with the dealer about whether the keyfob is bad (batteries?) or if the car's computer won't recognize the signals anymore. We had dead batteries in a keyfob for a Mitsubishi Montero. We got the batteries (radio shack - cheaper than the dealer wanted) but devices still had to be "synched" to get everything to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 You could check with the dealer about whether the keyfob is bad (batteries?) or if the car's computer won't recognize the signals anymore. We had dead batteries in a keyfob for a Mitsubishi Montero. We got the batteries (radio shack - cheaper than the dealer wanted) but devices still had to be "synched" to get everything to work. All the fobs have battery 'issues'. While the batteries are fine, the spring loaded-ness of the holder, required to make good contact with the battery causes the battery holder to pull loose of its moorings on the circuit board. The holder is soldered at three points, but not enough solder was used. Eventually one or more of the legs pull out, leading to a no power situation. I took mine to an vintage electronics repair shop and had them re-solder the legs with good results. Cost me $25.00. I have since heard that some local GM dealerships now have had one or more of their mechanics, possibly a parts man, trained in this quick and easy repair. One dealership does it gratis for loyal customers. Temporarily removing the batteries to make this repair had no effect on the computer recognizing the fobs. The mode of failure, is that the door lock, and remote engine start buttons work, but the door opener, door un-lock and horn buttons do not. Therefore the computer is recognizing the signal and the battery is good. This narrows it down to the contacts on the silicone membrane. Being able to short across the circuit board contacts with a metal object to make the electronics work confirms this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm not sure if the keys even come OUT of Betsy. I don't recall ever taking them out anyway. She does have an anti-theft features though. Between all her quirks involving the hand choke, stick shift, steering and brakes, any thief wouldn't get far without either stalling or going off the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevef Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I understand TommyK. I mentioned the above due to the way the Mitsu repair guy did the work on the old Montero. He "set" the security code and the function codes for each button when re-doing the fobs. I got the impression that he was not just verifying the function codes but actually restoring the programming for each "button" code. When he first put the battery in the fob I remember 1 button working (panic button) but the rest not. (could have been an older system, I guess). Did you look into generic replacements for the fobs? Dealer wanted $150something for replacements, found them online for about $80. http://www.remotesandkeys.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=2868 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 I understand TommyK. I mentioned the above due to the way the Mitsu repair guy did the work on the old Montero. He "set" the security code and the function codes for each button when re-doing the fobs. I got the impression that he was not just verifying the function codes but actually restoring the programming for each "button" code. When he first put the battery in the fob I remember 1 button working (panic button) but the rest not. (could have been an older system, I guess). Did you look into generic replacements for the fobs? Dealer wanted $150something for replacements, found them online for about $80. http://www.remotesandkeys.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=2868 I'm sure different manufacturers have different software. Still, to upgrade 3 keyfobs, that's $240. I'll be checking into adding a door lock to the passenger side before I spend that kind of scratch... even so, where do you find the on-line replacements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm not sure if the keys even come OUT of Betsy. I don't recall ever taking them out anyway. She does have an anti-theft features though. Between all her quirks involving the hand choke, stick shift, steering and brakes, any thief wouldn't get far without either stalling or going off the road. Hand choke? That truck doesn't look old enough for a hand choke! Last vehicle I drove with a manual choke was a '66 C-20. It had two temp lights. Red for over heating, green for 'leave the choke out until the green light goes off.' If memory serves me, and sometimes it don't, when my dad tried to replace a failing temp sender with n.o./n.c. switches within, they were unobtainium. I suspect most young buck thieves would never think to pull a choke knob to get it started. Even a 'auto choke' (manually set with foot feed) carburetor engine would give them fits as well. Jay Leno, in his Popular Mechanics article, predicts the demise of manual transmissions and the concomitant knowledge of their proper use, as well, within the next 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevef Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'm sure different manufacturers have different software. Still, to upgrade 3 keyfobs, that's $240. I'll be checking into adding a door lock to the passenger side before I spend that kind of scratch... even so, where do you find the on-line replacements? I don't know these guys but here's the link again.. http://www.remotesan...ts.asp?Cat=2868 Here's one that shows a 4 button for a Chevy Venture.. $45. (Not sure what van you've got. I just looked for 1 with a "sliding door" button). http://www.autotransponder.com/2004_CHEVROLET_VENTURE_keys_and_Keyless_entry_remotes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swleary Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Don't buy North American...problem solved ...just sayin lol...kidding I'd check ebay :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 don't mind puting a key in my lock the powers that be at GM have decided that since you have a key fob door unlocker, you don't need but one key hole, which is generally on the wrong side of the van Tommy, I've been railing about that for YEARS! If any family is with me, the driver's door is the LAST to be opened. Mrs. Neo always gets a door opened for her. As do our older parents. And putting preteen kids in the vehicle, I make sure they are in and secure first. If I'm driving, I'm the last one in. We all know how GM and Ford feel about manners, courtesy, respect, personal safety. All to save 10 bucks? Bastards. That truck doesn't look old enough for a hand choke! Even a 'auto choke' (manually set with foot feed) carburetor engine would give them fits as well. Yeah, the smog crap got so bad in the late seventies/early eighties that the auto chokes usually crapped out. Fitting a manual choke was a pretty common thing to do, especially when dealer-only carb parts were priced. Also, lotsa smog carbs went in the trash and were replaced with simple Holleys - manual choke. Don't buy North American...problem solved ...just sayin lol...kidding I am the LAST guy to buy imported but I'm almost there - and I'm not kidding. Maybe a Ford, but if I buy another new vehicle it will likely be an import. ... but I won't get political here with bailouts, unions, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Actually I put the hand choke in myself. The automatic choke gave me grief so out it went. Going on 16 years now. When I pay $1200 for something I get my money's worth out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share Posted November 30, 2010 I'd forgotten about aftermarket chokes. My FIL had a Fairmont which had a choke spring go bad. It was a thermostatic spring that adjusted the choked based on temperature. It went bad. They wanted several hundred dollars for it and/ or for the whole carb. I suggested he retro-fit a manual choke onto it, but I think the car developed other troubles and he junked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Fairmonts/Zephyrs disappeared from the roads faster than any other Ford in history! Seriously, the Vega, Pinto, K-Car and various AMCs didn't last long but the Fairmont disappeared almost overnight. I know several people that owned them - universal in their derision. One thing I remember, this about the time that they were pushing less maintenance/lower cost of ownership. The eliminated grease zerks from driveline and front suspension/steering components. "Lubed for life" was the catch phrase - a self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one. When a car is worth next to nothing, it won't start and run, parts are squeaking or falling apart... And don't forget the rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete c Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 with my wifes ford escape if you get within 20 feet of the car with either fob. the alarm goes off you dont even need to push the button. even if you start the car it still keeps going off. called ford they said huh never heard of that before. so i went and pulled the fuse for the alarm system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevef Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Neo... just a reminder.. Edsel was a Ford product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Steve, the Edsel was a marketing failure more than a mechanical failure. And those cars are worth serious money, have been for 20 years. Fairmont was a piece of sh!t as soon as they put it on the truck. A friend of mine commented about the lifespan of a car compared to its time on a truck. New - it goes on a truck. Broke - it goes on a truck. Dead - it goes on a truck. Junk - it goes on a truck. Recycled - it goes IN a truck. If it spends very little time on the road in between... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevef Posted November 30, 2010 Share Posted November 30, 2010 Steve, the Edsel was a marketing failure more than a mechanical failure. And those cars are worth serious money, have been for 20 years. Fairmont was a piece of sh!t as soon as they put it on the truck. Goes to show.. Fairmont was a marketable piece of sh1t, it was sold for 5 or 6 years. As for collecting, people pay good money for Marv Throneberry baseball cards! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted December 1, 2010 Author Share Posted December 1, 2010 Lubed for life. Whose life? The life of the bearings. When the bearing dries out and wears to the point of failure, the bearing is dead... lubed for life. Interesting that all the replacement parts for the 'lubed for life' parts have grease fittings. I never replaced a ball joint, rod end or universal joint until they invented "Lubed for Life". Keep them greased and they will last forever. How long does it take to grease a chassis and drive line? 10 minutes. Three minutes if you have it on a rack. How long to replace ball joints? Half a day. You do the math. Labor savor my aunt's fanny. Money saver? When they change my oil, they will lube all the chassis points with grease fittings And change the oil for the same price whether I have no fittings to grease or 15 fittings... same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 I rarely pay for an oil change. When I do, they NEVER grease anything. I watch 'em. Oh, they'll swear they did (especially here in AZ where NOBODY does their own work) but I'll nail 'em every time. I started telling them to change the oil ONLY, and let me know if they see anything unusual. This is when they're trying to sell me a transmission or radiator flush and sh!t like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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