P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Hi guys I just wanted to type this and share my experience with Gibson "customer service". I recently purchased an Epiphone Hummingbird acoustic guitar, I wasn't expecting much really I just needed a general purpose cheap acoustic to play about with. I had owned the instrument for about 48 hours when the headstock sheared away from the neck at the joint when playing it. I never dropped the guitar, or bent it or anything like that it just seemed to just pull away under tension of the strings. I got onto the shop where I bought it from who asked me to contact Gibson while they ordered me a replacement, I went down today and the guys there agreed that this was a fault of the guitar and they have issued me the replacement. Id just like to post up the email conversation so far, im yet to receive a second reply but I'm just so disappointed with them I wanted to share this. Please excuse the really poor photo's... Dear Sirs I am sending this email under instruction from Dawsons music of Reading. On Wednesday 13th April 2011 I purchased an Epiphone Hummingbird from Dawsons music store in Warrington, Cheshire. I was playing the Guitar yesterday (15th April 2011) evening when all of a sudden and without warning I heard a large crack and the strings went slack. Upon Inspection the headstock appears to have sheared away from the neck under the tension of the strings leaving the Truss rod cover holding the two together. The guitar was not dropped, bent or otherwise stressed to cause this failure, I can only conclude that it was already weak/cracked/defect from the factory and that the thick black stain was covering the said area. I have included pictures of the guitar from all pertinent angles to demonstrate to you that there is NO other damage to the guitar or finish other than the crack at the head. I would estimate that I have played the guitar for 2 hours in total. The Sale of good act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that the goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. This is also covered by your 12 month manufactures warranty against defects which I have a receipt for. As you are in breach of contract I am rejecting this item and request that either yourself or Dawsons music replace this item with another or issue me a full refund. I am returning the effected item to Dawsons Music of Reading on Wednesday 20th April and fully expect this matter to be closed, however if it is not I intend to issue a claim against you (Gibson) and/or Dawsons music in the county court without further reference to you. I would also like to add that I am severely disappointed with this situation, I have been loyally buying Epiphone guitars for years because of there heritage, looks, cost and above all playability and if this issue is resolved to my satisfaction I see no reason not to continue choosing Epiphone in the future. My main gigging guitar is an Epiphone Casino as you can see in the picture I have provided which I absolutely adore. I was very happy with this Hummingbird before this situation and id like to reiterate that I would much prefer another in exchange rather than a refund. I look forward to your response Yours Sincerely Lee Wright ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Mr. Wright, Thank you for your interest in Gibson. Broken headstocks do not just happen. Headstock breakages can also occur when the neck previously has had only a small knock, with an unnoticeable crack in the headstock. At a certain moment the headstock can then suddenly snap; also when putting on new strings for example. This is unfortunately not covered under warranty. I would like to suggest you to read the warranty regulations: http://www2.gibson.com/Support/WarrantyRegistration/Epiphone/Warranty.aspx In your case it would be point 3: 3 Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse, negligence, accident, or improper operation. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me again. Kind regards, Stijn Vergeest Gibson Europe Customer Service 00800-4GIBSON1 00800-44427661 www.gibson.com service.europe@gibson.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Stijin Vergeest I am very disappointed in your frankly insulting reply, I also find it astounding that you name section 3 of your warranty agreement as applicable in this instance, allow me break this down for you... 3 Any instrument that has been damaged due to misuse - Please elaborate, I cannot see how simply playing the instrument can be classed as misuse Negligence - again, how has this guitar been neglected? As you can see the finish is undamaged, I had only owned this guitar for 48 hours when it split in two and as you can see it has been kept in a hard case since purchase. Accident - what accident? are you implying that I have accidently broken this guitar clean in 2 without any other damage/stress marks? Improper operation - again please define, I would understand if I had been surfing it down a set of stairs instead of playing it. I quote you "Headstock breakages can also occur when the neck previously has had only a small knock, with an unnoticeable crack in the headstock" and I would agree that this is the most likely cause of headstock failure. What you haven't mentioned is the other factors that can contribute to headstock failure such as... Poor/flawed/weak material Unnoticed damage at the manufacturing stage I do not know how you can simply dismiss these other characteristics over email without even looking at the guitar, to me that seems like very very poor after sales service. I would like to remind you that it is not up to me to prove to you how the guitar was broken, it is up to you to disprove my version of how it came to be in two pieces - something you simply cannot do over an email conversation. I am not for one second suggesting that headstock failure just happens, on the contrary I am suggesting that this situation was likely caused by some kind of failure materials that was covered in stain and unnoticeable to me when I purchased the guitar. I would also point you back at your own warranty link where it says "If at any time this Epiphone instrument malfunctions as a result of faulty materials or workmanship, Epiphone will repair the defect(s) or replace the instrument" Are you now informing me post sale that this is not the case? I will also take this opertunity to inform you that this conversation will be getting posted on the national guitar forums I frequent as an example of your very poor after sales service. Finally I would like to add that I have returned your faulty instrument to Dawsons Music of Reading today where they also observed that there was no damage to the instrument and issued me a replacement strait away. It is a good job that you have agents like this selling your guitars, its a shame this level of service cannot be replicated by yourself. I am very disappointed in this whole situation, and im especially disappointed at Gibson. Perhaps I shall spend my money elsewhere in future. Regards ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So there we go. Please be careful with your guitars before you commit to buy them lads, check them very carefully as chances are Gibson don't want to know when they have your money. Id like to add that Dawsons music are a credit to the industry, top lads with no fuss! can't ask for more than that and ill happily shop there again. Cheers for reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Owl Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second, did the guitar come directly from the factory, or was it a floor model? Is it possible that the damage occured prior to your acquisition of the guitar, and that effectively the music store either made it your problem or was genuinely unaware that some careless cad had already damaged it to the breaking point? This seems to be more of a store issue first and foremost, unless you saw the unboxing of this particular guitar directly from the factory, it's difficult to discern. Either way it sounds entirely reasonable to expect a replacement, you're not asking for money back only, simply a replacement. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 It's impossible to tell whether you broke it or not, however, they clearly got it wrong in their response and (IMHO) should have asked you to take it to the shop to be inspected before taking that stance. Stijn hangs around here and WILL see this post. That said, you initial email was seriously aggressive and made it seem like you were already spoiling for a fight, in my mind, that is going to make them think you broke it. You've had a replacement and now it's up to your shop to argue with Gibson over a refund/replacement for their stock. I am willing to bet they appologise to you for jumping to conclusions and making rash judgements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andre S Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second, did the guitar come directly from the factory, or was it a floor model? Is it possible that the damage occured prior to your acquisition of the guitar, and that effectively the music store either made it your problem or was genuinely unaware that some careless cad had already damaged it to the breaking point? This seems to be more of a store issue first and foremost, unless you saw the unboxing of this particular guitar directly from the factory, it's difficult to discern. Either way it sounds entirely reasonable to expect a replacement, you're not asking for money back only, simply a replacement. Good luck! +1 You have every right to request a refund or replacement, but if it were a floor model, or even from the back I would have gone to the store rather than taking it up with Gibson. They can't control what happens to the guitar in the store. Even if it were unboxed for you directly from the factory, it could have fallen in the store in the box, without showing any discernable damage. So as Artie said...store issue... Anyway...at least its closed and you got a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Things like this are the stores fault. They need to stand by the guitars they sell. They should refunded the money or replaced the guitar or maybe offer to fix the guitar for free and give a store credit as partial refund. Once the customer is happy the store needs to take up the issue with Gibson and see if they can get their money back. Why the store sent you off to battle Gibson in an Email war is beyond me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Frankly I think of this as the stores fault. They need to stand by the guitars they sell. They should have refunded you money or replaced your guitar or maybe offer to fix the guitar for free and give you a store credit as partial refund. Once the customer is happy the store needs to take up the issue with Gibson and see if they can get their money back. The fact that the store just told you to handle it all your self and fight Gibson on your own is some of the worst customer service I have ever seen. The post I read said that the store ordered a replacement the same day and replaced it without question. Which post did you read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fl00dsm0k3 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 did you buy it new right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 yes totally I agree it could be a store issue, could be a factory issue and well, it could of happened any time really. I don't dispute that it could be a store issue! What I am annoyed with is the response. Strait on the back foot/slopey shoulders stance just annoyed me strait off, I would of assumed that they would be eager to get it back to inspect it to see if there might be an issue with that particular batch. I have my replacement now but it just makes me hesitant to go and spend lots of money on a Gibson. I hope the "customer services" (not sure if that's a good title) guy who sent me this email does read this, and I am just posting this to inform others of my experience in the hope that it makes them think a bit harder before handing there money over. If it makes 10 people spend an extra 5 mins checking an instrument before there hard earned then this thread has served its purpose as far as im concerned. I have my replacement which im happy about at the end of the day. :-) EDIT = Yes this was a floor model, and the store ordered me a new one strait away and have replaced it with no fuss today (first day I could get off from work since the breakage) They told me to email them directly because they cannot ever get any joy from them (past returns) as a store and wondered if I sent them an email would it be better? They were not surprised by Gibson's response and have been great with me to be fair. My initial email was a bit aggressive, I was angry at the time and just vented this at customer services. At the end of the day I bought a guitar and 48 hours later its in two pieces, most people would be angry I think! They got it wrong IMO, they should of pacified the situation and directed me back to the store who I have a contract of sale with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I would never have "contact(ed) Gibson while they ordered me a replacement...". At that point it is the retailers' problem and only their problem. In fact, had they instructed ME to contact the company it would at that moment have become a refund and not a replacement. Good luck with it. Remember in the future that unless and until the front end gives up their job entirely and tells you so, you and I have no business being required to contact Gibson, it's why they have their Network Of Dealerships Of Awesome. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The post I read said that the store ordered a replacement the same day and replaced it without question. Which post did you read? Yea... I was correcting some of that while you were posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The Sale of good act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that the goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. This is also covered by your 12 month manufactures warranty against defects which I have a receipt for. As you are in breach of contract I am rejecting this item and request that either yourself or Dawsons music replace this item with another or issue me a full refund. I am returning the effected item to Dawsons Music of Reading on Wednesday 20th April and fully expect this matter to be closed, however if it is not I intend to issue a claim against you (Gibson) and/or Dawsons music in the county court without further reference to you. I am glad it all got sorted but do you see that this paragraph was rather aggressive right from your first email. IMHO you might have got a better response if you were a little less combative in your first email to them. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 I am glad it all got sorted but do you see that this paragraph was rather aggressive right from your first email. IMHO you might have got a better response if you were a little less combative in your first email to them. Just a thought. Yes I know mate, It is actually a template email I edited for my use off the internet! It might be aggressive, but its also true. Anyways I don't want to get into that, its not my intention to argue over who was right and who was wrong I just want to make sure people hear both sides of the coin as it were before spending there cash. Like I say if it makes a few people check there potential purchases a bit closer as a result of this email its served its purpose. Cheers for all the responses so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Yes I know mate, It is actually a template email I edited for my use off the internet! It might be aggressive, but its also true. Anyways I don't want to get into that, its not my intention to argue over who was right and who was wrong I just want to make sure people hear both sides of the coin as it were before spending there cash. Like I say if it makes a few people check there potential purchases a bit closer as a result of this email its served its purpose. Cheers for all the responses so far. Can't argue with that. It is accurate. I, myself, first got involved in this forum with a similar post, although I had tried several avenues before hand and my problem was not, at that time, resolved. I fully accept that the response you recieved seems inappropriate. I just felt compelled to point out that while the response was somewhat defensive and Stijn seems to have jumped to conclusions, humans are falible and, as the saying goes, you catch more flies with honey. As I say, the factual content of the paragraph was accurate and I certainly have no desire to argue with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I think Farns wrote about what I would have - or would have cosigned had I been at his side when he wrote. But the bottom line is that I'm glad you got your better bird. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Sounds like it's been resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anrynike Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Way to agressive in your initial email to Gibson, correct or not. Being cordial will get you a lot further with issues like this. Just a word of advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 TommyK - thanks for the support. As I say, the factual content of the paragraph was accurate and I certainly have no desire to argue with you. dude were cool, I totally agree with you I am happy to say I have received contact through this forum from the Customer services manager who has restored my faith in the Customer services department. Im glad to see that this is an isolated instance and that they do care. Thanks for your responses so far. for the people saying I was too aggressive - I fully accept this but please understand I typed that email not in the right frame of mind. I have learnt a few lessons here too people, life is a journey. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The initial contact was not overboard IMHO........ O.P. states his love of Epi and Gibson as a whole......... The Gibby response is generic....... O.P. response back, eh, not so nice........ The problem is resolved........ As such, no use shooting a dead horse......... IMHO.................... I've had good Gibby customer service....... And even nice thanks from Epi's President himself........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 TommyK - thanks for the support. dude were cool, I totally agree with you I am happy to say I have received contact through this forum from the Customer services manager who has restored my faith in the Customer services department. Im glad to see that this is an isolated instance and that they do care. Thanks for your responses so far. for the people saying I was too aggressive - I fully accept this but please understand I typed that email not in the right frame of mind. I have learnt a few lessons here too people, life is a journey. :-) I knew from my own experiences that you would be recieving contact from CS (Jason I guess since you say "Manager"). I am glad you recieved a comunication from CS that has restored your faith. Gibson have a habbit of doing that when things go wrong. Gibson makes mistakes like everyone else but in the end, they rock! And they really do try to provide good old fashioned service, rare in this day and age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 Spot on damian, im happy after receiving my PM on this forum from Gibson's CSM. It is now resolved on both sides and as you say, theres no point in shooting a dead horse. I knew from my own experiences that you would be recieving contact from CS (Jason I guess since you say "Manager"). I am glad you recieved a comunication from CS that has restored your faith. Gibson have a habbit of doing that when things go wrong. Gibson makes mistakes like everyone else but in the end, they rock! And they really do try to provide good old fashioned service, rare in this day and age! Yes im happy, I love Gibson and Epiphone, they make the nicest most playable instruments in my opinion. Im more happy that I can walk back into a shop again and consider them. It was kind of one of those situations where someone meets their celeb idol and they are nasty to them. You want to love them but your personal experience makes you dislike them, Im glad that this is no longer the case. Thanks for all the support and opinions, I do appreciate it weather its positive or negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The good thing is, now that you have had your say and got the right action in response, you can hang around here with your new friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 yes! Well ive actually been registered on here for a while as this is not my first Epi, im not really a massive forum user to be honest as I don't get the time! Ill try and post a bit more. Yes it was David who contacted me, he seems spot on and just what I was expecting from CS in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Spot on damian, im happy after receiving my PM on this forum from Gibson's CSM. It is now resolved on both sides and as you say, theres no point in shooting a dead horse. Thanks for all the support and opinions, I do appreciate it weather its positive or negative. P-90, headstocks of that design are weak...........I'm sure that Giggy and Epi have been burned often by folks who have broken their guitars and expect them to be replaced.........Your claim appears / appeared very legit........I am glad it is resolved................ Going public when needed is a very powerful tool.........I use the option, and currently am about to do it again....I wait until all other options are expended though.....Enjoy your new Hummingbird; I want one as well, Epi acoustics are quite good IMHO...... P-90, I also noticed that you've been a member here for quite some time.......That carries weight in my book, and others as well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P90 Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 P-90, headstocks of that design are weak...........I'm sure that Giggy and Epi have been burned often by folks who have broken their guitars and expect them to be replaced.........Your claim appears / appeared very legit........I am glad it is resolved................ Going public when needed is a very powerful tool.........I use the option, and currently am about to do it again....I wait until all other options are expended though.....Enjoy your new Hummingbird; I want one as well, Epi acoustics are quite good IMHO...... P-90, I also noticed that you've been a member here for quite some time.......That carries weight in my book, and others as well..... Again thanks for your support mate. I love the bird, I can't afford a Gibson one yet so this is as close as ill get for now and I love it. Im playing it now in between typing on here, band practice tonight so it will also get its first outing there! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest FarnsBarns Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Again thanks for your support mate. I love the bird, I can't afford a Gibson one yet so this is as close as ill get for now and I love it. Im playing it now in between typing on here, band practice tonight so it will also get its first outing there! Cheers Sound clips! I am reliably informed that without them, it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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