Artie Owl Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 We all appreciate handmade quality products, and I never called into question the quality of the product, just the market for it based on the cost. Try to think of it from a customer's point of view; you're at the music store, and you've saved up enough to buy your first LP and Marshall amp like your hero Eric Clapton! As the clerk is ringing up the product he has someone demo your amp stand, telling them all the benefits. It sounds great to you because you want to get the most out of your new amp, but when he drops the price it immediately turns you off, because you're already spending well over 1-2k. It's like selling a case for an iPhone that costs more than the iPhone, at some point you just have to wonder, would it be cheaper just to buy another iPhone IF this one breaks? Just trying to help, man and that's only my 2 cents, I might be totally off on this one, but nevertheless, think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 we just launched a couple days ago, still working out the facebook and twitter thing, maybe someday we;ll have a forum. if all goes well. we do intend to offer several designs with different angles, the product keeps evolving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It is not for everyone I admit, they are high end, more for the people who want something nice in their home, but these things are strong too, and they don't come off an assembly line in china. It takes a good week to make one easy. i am thinking maybe 5-10% of the people out there will even consider paying for a handmade stand from a craftsman who cares. I do appreciate all the feedback I can get. Thanks, Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Owl Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 It is not for everyone I admit, they are high end, more for the people who want something nice in their home, but these things are strong too, and they don't come off an assembly line in china. It takes a good week to make one easy. i am thinking maybe 5-10% of the people out there will even consider paying for a handmade stand from a craftsman who cares. I do appreciate all the feedback I can get. Thanks, Josh Alright man, I leave you with this. I've been selling things for a long time, stuff people typically perceive as a "need". We have a handmade, leather belt pouch designed by a local craftsman that is tailor made to a popular mobile phone that is sold to the majority of our businesses. I love it, as it's indestructible and comes from a local business. However 4/5 of the phones we sell with a case take the cheaper alternative because of the perceived value. When we tell them the case is 50$ but it'll last forever many customers will go, yeah but what have you got for 20$? If there is a proven market for your product and you know that you can make money on selling one stand for every 10-20 sold (based on your 5-10% estimate) great! Maybe consider having a entry level alternative stand to add to your product line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 cool, thanks for the help, I agree an entry level stand is a great idea! As we work through the design it seems to simplify itself and may allow for one soon. As it stands the process is still too labor intensive and complex. In due time I hope to be able to market an entry level amp stand out of hardwood, but it wouldn't have the craftsmanship that we put into these stands. The ones we have are super strong, and as they age they will only get better. We took several of them out to let musicians use them, and they all seemed to like them while they were there, most couldn't afford to pay for a weeks worth of work for one, but they loved them. I hope to be able to bring the cost down as things progress. I hear ya though. Once again, I am very grateful for your input. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Your stands truely are very nice, and well made......I'd buy one...........And I do understand startup costs, business costs, etc...... I wish you all the best in your endeavors, and thank you for posting.... [thumbup] ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenced Fred Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Wow, it takes a lot of balls to man up and put your name on something, especially in a forum and leave it up to opinion. For that, I am thoroughly impressed. My suggestion would be to kind of follow Gibson (now hear me out). Make a "studio" model of the standard, without all of the extra special stuff, but still the same high quality product for a bit less. Going off of what Artie said, its pretty steep for a stand, especially when Musicians Friend sells one for around 50 dollars or less. I'm not saying yours isn't quality, they meet a price point. You are going for the boutique high end stuff, I get that, but I would recommend checking into where you can cut cost on aesthetic stuff. It has worked wonders for Gibson, and recently for 65 Amps. just my 2 cents from a random internet kid :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I agree, I'm working like a mule to build the process for proficiency and efficiency when building them, they used to have dowels all the way across instead of pins for axles, that was a nightmare to try to glue together. My personal favorite look is the dovetails we did, there's a pic of one on facebook, but then your looking at even more labor. Labor is the constant it seems, no fast and easy way to make a hardwood stand. I'm currently toying with a distressed model so that maybe the sanding and finishing will go faster. The whole idea here is to beat these things up, gives them character beyond what the hardwood already does. I here ya, whittle it down, no LEDs, no rack space, no inlay, no straps etc. Hopefully I can make it happen. So many good ideas it's hard to not do all of them. Thanks for the ideas, they are wonderful to hear. Thanks for the manning up comment too, this hasn't been easy, I'm trying:) Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 They don't, but I will, and Stein will elaborate later, and will correct me as well.......In a typical small / medium stage situation, a guitarest uses a 1X12, 2X12, or 4X12 cab, either combo, or head + cab(s)....[ Unless you're dem00n, who uses tiny computer speakers in his live rig ]....... The guitarest stands near his rig, and adjusts the tone from where he/she stands, which is close to the rig....This typically results in the EQ chosen to be rather harsh, too trebly....While the guitarest thinks his tone sounds awesome, the audience which is fairly close hears the sound as harsh and not cool sounding....By the time any of the amp/cab sound reaches the 'soundman' in the back of the room, if any of it does at all, it has already broken up and sounds OK, or is drowned out by the guitar in the PA mix, and or he's too busy listening to the PA mix overall........So, one solution is to face one's amps towards the back wall.....The other solution is to angle cabs at an angle upwards, which diffuses the harsh EQed away from the audience...Maybe another way to describe it is, when angled up a bit, the guitarest can hear much clearer what the tone actually is set to coming from his / her set up......The result being, better sound, truer sound, etc etc.......... ... I think you said it there quite well. How did you know I would be interested in this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I am with everyone else here, in regards to price and uses. I can definitely see where your versions of the beautiful woods have a use and I think they are worth it and not too expensive for what they are. But I think very few could use that. One point is that few amps even look as good as your stand! As for putting the amp up and at an angle, you just might be onto something there. As Damian eluded to, where the amp is in the room and the proximity to the players and the audience is something we all have trouble with, and something we often do not pay enough attention to. Sometimes, setting up on a chair makes a great improvement, sometimes tilting the amp back against a wall, sometimes the legs (on fenders) but sometimes, just on the floor is best. The issue of the amp either blasting some in the face past your legs or blasting yourself in the ears is something most would be happy to solve, IF it didn't create more problems than it solved. Now, being totally honest, I don't understand how having the amp at such a high angle is an advantage unless the guitarist is playing a large outdoor venue and needs to hear himself above all else (I CAN see that). As for solving the problems of the stage being washed out by bass frequencies (the REAL reason the bass player stands closer to his rig) and being able to hear each other, it wouldn't help in a small to medium stage, and as far as the frequencies developing after they leave the stage, pointing up too far to a point where the audience gets the sound bouncing off another surface would attenuate the higher frequencies from the bass frequencies. But, if you want to know what would possibly be of GREAT use, is something adjustable, or adjusted at least to a angle AWAY from other surfaces, and you are on the right track as far as isolation of the amp to the floor. Just like on small or medium stages we all adjust the direction left and right, up and down would be very rewarding and "solve" a lot of mix and wash problems. Even a permanent slight tilt up is helpful, but most don't bother because we don't have a good affordable stand or a way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Wow, it takes a lot of balls to man up and put your name on something, especially in a forum and leave it up to opinion. For that, I am thoroughly impressed. My suggestion would be to kind of follow Gibson (now hear me out). Make a "studio" model of the standard, without all of the extra special stuff, but still the same high quality product for a bit less. Going off of what Artie said, its pretty steep for a stand, especially when Musicians Friend sells one for around 50 dollars or less. I'm not saying yours isn't quality, they meet a price point. You are going for the boutique high end stuff, I get that, but I would recommend checking into where you can cut cost on aesthetic stuff. It has worked wonders for Gibson, and recently for 65 Amps. just my 2 cents from a random internet kid :unsure: This is good advise, as well. In order for anyone to really get to the point of wanting to spend money on quality looks and construction, a cheap, affordable option to get someone to try it is in order. Sometimes, something built with "taste" and a nod to style is cool and works just as well as obvious, hand rubbed, hand made quality. Just like Fred's example, poeple buy Studio LP's all day long and appreciate the cheaper finish and price. In your case, maybe that would be pine with a black finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Nice looking product and i'm sure you'll sell some - but I gotta agree that your pricing yourself out of most of the market share and there won't be anywhere near 5% that will splurge for that much rack especially sense a metal adjustable amp stand to haul around to gigs is less than $100. I had a custom tilted wood amp (has three tilt settings) stand made a couple years back out of birds eye maple to match a custom shop flamed Maple Mesa Boogie amp. It looks quite a lot like yours without the rack space instead it has a slightly larger shelf to hold a smaller Taylor acoustic pre-amp, and a set of Rado headphones for when the wife is sleeping, I sure wouldn't haul it around with me to gigs even if it did have a strap which is doesn't. It sits in the corner of our loft and it cost me right at $400 for a one of a kind piece from a custom cabinet shop in Denver to make, but in all honesty they were doing some other custom work at the same time so I never asked how much that lowered the cost. The other thing they did is the really premium high end maple was only used on the front and sides that are visible everything else is still solid maple just not the really costly premium birds -eye maple wood and honestly unless you crawl under it (sorry never been that drunk at home) or took it apart nobody would ever know. There sure pretty but I can't see ever splurging that kind of change on a amp stand to sit in a studio or living room, no matter how well it's made. But the very best of luck and hope everyone is wrong and you sell thousands of them. It's just a tough world to sell anything really high end right now I make jewelry and probably 70% of my commissions for anything other than wedding rings are mixed metal now with a majority of silver and gold decorations or even jewelry grade bronze and copper, since most people don't want to pay the premium cost of gold right now for bracelet's and other fashion jewelry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrosurfer1959 Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I can't find a picture of mine right now I'll keep looking, but they really look very similar though, mine even has two small metal computer type fans integrated into the back panel, we used computer style fans because they were well isolated and didn't cause noise issues. The best part (which you might think about adding though) is it has a small gooseneck style light built into one of the back panels also, which not only looks cool but is really handy especially if your twisting knobs at night, and if you want to remove the light for cosmetic reason you just push down on it and twist it and it comes out leaving a BNC style socket about the size of a dime and theres a small l shaped shelf on the back to hold the light. We designed it off a set of plans for an Adirondack chair and just converted it to hold an amp instead of a person. Have you ever experimented with slightly less tilt? The tilt works well but I have to be really careful when I tip mine all the way back like that, it really eats tubes if you move it even a little when the tubes are really warm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artie Owl Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 This is good advise, as well. In order for anyone to really get to the point of wanting to spend money on quality looks and construction, a cheap, affordable option to get someone to try it is in order. Sometimes, something built with "taste" and a nod to style is cool and works just as well as obvious, hand rubbed, hand made quality. Just like Fred's example, poeple buy Studio LP's all day long and appreciate the cheaper finish and price. In your case, maybe that would be pine with a black finish? That's what I said wasn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 That's what I said wasn't it? If you mean too expensive, yes. But we both did not elaborate on the same points. You elaborated on experience of customers and buying habits from your observations, which I never did. Fred's take, also, was from a different perspective. While we are all saying the same thing (too expensive) we all seem to have different ways of explaining and reasons why it is. Even as we may all agree on what each other says about it. I happen to agree most with you, and 100% so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 this is awesome stuff that I really do need and want to hear. I've been getting both ends of the spectrum today regarding feedback: A local shop in downtown Jonesborough, TN. handles art glass, pottery and woodworking. They also host a regional band that plays music one the square every Friday night. I do consignment with them and they get free access to the stands to allow all the musicians to use as they roll through the venues. The Band tonight had a guitar player that put his boutique amp on one and I am told by the store owner that he said, "man! it was made for it." I truly like my amp enough to put it on something really really special, I spent 20 years trying to find the sound that suited me perfect. Lots of people never do find the amp or guitar that they wear the best. The stuff that looks like it belongs in a gym that I have bought and used for a long long time just doesn't appeal to me in any way. I see my AC30 on one and it looks to me like a Ferrari on steel wheels. Maybe it could could be said that my market is all over the place because these stands are more like furniture than something people would regularly want to gig with, But they could, and it would take all and more abuse than the metal ones do if someone did do gigs with them. I have yet to see one all beat up after years of hard knocks, I bet it would be sorta like and old guitar. I'm also hearing that they are so outrageously priced that none will sell, which is evident above. Hmmmm, so then I go to sites that I link to my site and I see Cello stands with 1/8th the wood and labor going on selling for $700-$1000. these next two links are not cellos stands but they give the same idea: Hand Made Music Stand by Geoffrey Warner Studio | CustomMade.com Custom Curly Maple Guitar Stand by South Mountain Woodworks | CustomMade.com This is so confusing. Regarding cheap access things don't get cheaper than free, I'm giving 3 away for nothing more than a Facebook picture of someones guitar rig. 1 per month. I'm asking for feedback and always will, so no worries, no offenses will be taken by me. I'm not saying I'm elephant skinned like the one in the room (me) but I don't get offended, I'm interested in what people have to say. This is all great to hear and I will try diligently to assimilate it and make decisions accordingly. Anyway, much appreciated, keep it coming Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 hmmm, the links didn't paste right. anyway its a site called custommade.com that I like to browse and be awe struck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 here are more pictures of the stand being discussed, thanks for thecomments, I am very grateful for the insights. An adjustable stand is on the chopping block as well. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 here is an example of the 126 degree angle we have been talking about, not as steep as the pictures before may appear. and here is a custom maple stand I did last year, mahogany pinstripe inlay, quilted ambrosia, 2 inch thick legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Beautiful, just beautiful................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 here are more pictures of the stand being discussed, thanks for thecomments, I am very grateful for the insights. An adjustable stand is on the chopping block as well. Josh .... It resembles a vintage electric chair Nice craftsmanship .... If I was into amp stands I would definitely consider yours first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChanMan Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 First off, let's compare apples to apples. THIS is an amp stand (like the one I have in my living room): THIS is a quality piece of funiture (like my wife would LOVE to have in my livingroom): The difference in price doesn't seem nearly so great when considered from the proper perspective :D Ever thought about putting a 110 plug on the stand so the amp could be plugged directly into it? GORGEOUS stands, by the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I suggest a power conditioner as the rack unit, but a tuner or compressor make sense too. Thanks for changing the tone of the thread you all, it means a lot to me. Josh Childers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshatatlasstands Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 apples with apples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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